Sewing Stitcher/machine For Holster Building

[Garange]

Hello Everyone,

I'm a new member and looking for some advice. I've been building gun holsters for a little over a year now selling on eBay and to others. I believe I make a pretty good holster and have had excellent reviews but my problem is the time it takes to complete one. I hand-stitch each one and of course is very time consuming. I've been doing some research on leather stitchers and sewing machines but would love to get some ideas by others that build holsters. I use a 6/7 oz up to 8/9 oz leather. I've made and sold around 25 holsters to date but would like to decrease my labor time with a good machine. Not looking for a cheap machine but also don't want to go overboard on cost at the beginning with a machine that I may not like or can operate very well. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Edited June 6, 2010 by Garange

[TwinOaks]

Look to the top of the page at the ads- these are some of the common suppliers for leather rated sewing machines. Also, we have an entire section dedicated to leather sewing machines, just scroll down from the main forum page. There's more info there than I can type in two days, and it can answer some specific questions about the various machines' capabilities.

For your options, you can go manual (Tippmann Boss, or Luberto's Cub series), or powered (everything else). You might luck out and find a Boss for around a grand, but for most everything else, $1500 is gonna be about the least you'll spend....for a used model. If you're looking to make money at this, go ahead and plan for about $3000 to spend on a machine. Get more machine than you think you'll need- there's currently only about 200-400 dollar difference between the short and long arms....spend the extra money for the extra capacity.

Call the suppliers, call more than one. The phone numbers are typically listed on their websites, so give them a call and tell them what you'll be making. There's a few minor differences between the 'clones', and what you can expect from them, and first person Q&A beats reading it in a forum.

While your checking out the machines, look at things like thread and replacement needles.

Avoid the antique "industrial" machines on ebay, just stick to what's recommende here- It's a collective knowledge base, and we'll try to steer you right.

[Garange]

Look to the top of the page at the ads- these are some of the common suppliers for leather rated sewing machines. Also, we have an entire section dedicated to leather sewing machines, just scroll down from the main forum page. There's more info there than I can type in two days, and it can answer some specific questions about the various machines' capabilities.

For your options, you can go manual (Tippmann Boss, or Luberto's Cub series), or powered (everything else). You might luck out and find a Boss for around a grand, but for most everything else, $1500 is gonna be about the least you'll spend....for a used model. If you're looking to make money at this, go ahead and plan for about $3000 to spend on a machine. Get more machine than you think you'll need- there's currently only about 200-400 dollar difference between the short and long arms....spend the extra money for the extra capacity.

Call the suppliers, call more than one. The phone numbers are typically listed on their websites, so give them a call and tell them what you'll be making. There's a few minor differences between the 'clones', and what you can expect from them, and first person Q&A beats reading it in a forum.

While your checking out the machines, look at things like thread and replacement needles.

Avoid the antique "industrial" machines on ebay, just stick to what's recommende here- It's a collective knowledge base, and we'll try to steer you right.

Thank you very much for the reply and information. I will consider it all and continue to research my options. I'm really glad I've had the opportuntiy to join this forum.

[Deanimator]

Hello Everyone,

I'm a new member and looking for some advice. I've been building gun holsters for a little over a year now selling on eBay and to others. I believe I make a pretty good holster and have had excellent reviews but my problem is the time it takes to complete one. I hand-stitch each one and of course is very time consuming. I've been doing some research on leather stitchers and sewing machines but would love to get some ideas by others that build holsters. I use a 6/7 oz up to 8/9 oz leather. I've made and sold around 25 holsters to date but would like to decrease my labor time with a good machine. Not looking for a cheap machine but also don't want to go overboard on cost at the beginning with a machine that I may not like or can operate very well. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

We're in the same boat, although you're much farther along than I am. I've just done my first holster, a pocket holster for a 2" J-Frame Smith. It got a good reception at my club. Now, I need to be able to make more of them (as well as finish my tuckable IWB design). Ask a lot of questions here before you buy anything. Choice of a holster capable leather sewing machine is a HIGHLY technical matter. I was like the guy wanting to get into Olympic pistol shooting without knowing a Hammerli from a Hi Point.

Edited June 6, 2010 by Deanimator

[dirtclod]

In addition the suppliers at the top of the page call Ferdco . They have a web site http://www.ferdco.com/ . They are super nice folks and will help you anyway they can, or they have always helped me anyway. I have had a Juki Pro 2000 for 10 or 12 years now and never have had a problem with it. I do leather work full time and make a little bit of everthing. It will sew your holsters no problem i've made a bunch of them.

Just like the others said get at least a 16 inch arm no matter what brand you buy, you will be glad you did. Because some where along the line you wil need the extra length and it's nice to have.

John

[Denster]

My suggestion for a first machine would be a used Tippmann Boss. You can generally get one on eBay for $1000 or a little less and later if you want a powered machine you will be able to get back most if not all of your money on the Boss. Although you may find you don't need anything more. There is a learning curve to sewing leather with any machine and the Boss is easy to learn on. It has a small footprint only weighs about 25lbs and will sew through up to 3/4" veg-tan. They are virtually indestructable and any work that needs to be done on them you can do yourself if you are even remotely mechanicaly inclined. Something to consider if you are not located near someone who can service your machine. Worst case you can send it UPS to Tippmann and they will completely rebuild it for about $100 plus parts and give it a new factory warranty. I've sewen over 2K of holsters on both of my Boss machines and the only thing I've broken is two needles and a presser foot cable.

[Deanimator]

For those of you who have used the Tippman Boss, how hard is it to use versus a powered machine? I load all of my own ammunition on a Dillon RL550B reloading press, so manipulation of a manual device isn't a problem. I'm just wondering how much of a performance hit do you take.

Thanks.

[K-Man]

I've had the opportunity to use a variety of machines for holster making. If you're really serious about wanting to make a quality holster/product, my recommendation would be to skip the BOSS. I broke two of them beyond repair and sold a third off in disgust within a 15-month period. I then used a Model 5 machine from Neel's Saddlery - huge improvement. I made a number of items with it, to include product that got us first place in the Star Wars costume contest at their convention in Indianapolis a few years ago. I used that machine for approximately 18-24 months. I then bought two Artisan Toro 3000's. That was another move up in performance and quality of product produced. Have had virtually zero problems with those machines. I also bought an Artisan 618 and after a couple of years with it started having some problems. Called their customer service. Let's just say that I will not buy another product from Artisan nor recommend their products to anyone. My suggestion would be to seriously consider the Cobra Class 3 from Cobra Leather Machine company or the equivalent model from Neel's Saddlery. The machines sew up to 3/4" or 7/8" thickness of leather. The quality of the machine is superior to a BOSS machine by far. The customer service of both Cobra and Neel's is some of the best I've experienced anywhere.

Edited June 6, 2010 by K-Man

[Garange]

I'd like to thank everyone here for their excellent advice and knowledge. It is very much appreciated and will be instrumental in my final decision on what type of machine to purchase.

Thank you.

Gary

Edited June 6, 2010 by Garange

[dmr400]

As someone who is in the same boat you are, I bit the bullet and spent the money for a new Cobra Class 4 from Steve at Leather Machine Company. Steve was exceptional to work with and is easy to get a hold of if you have any questions. The only issue at all I have had with my machine was assembling it, the factory had forgotten to drill one hole in the base, steve had it figured out in 30 seconds when I got him on the phone, I pulled out the cordless drill and was sewing away within a 30 more minutes. It is capable of sewing very slowly when you master the foot pedal, so after just a couple hours practicing I was feeling very comfortable and starting to speed up. Can't say it enough, Steve was great to work with. I ordered my machine when I was in Iraq which made for some difficult communications, and Steve was more than happy to work with me and was VERY military friendly.

Edited June 6, 2010 by dmr400

[Denster]

As to preformance hit between manual and powered, virtually none. Sewing heavy leather in no case is a speed situation no matter what machine you are using. The longer arm powered machines are in some case and for some purposes more convenient. ie: I can sew belts on a Boss but I prefer my powered machine I can also sew in liners on large western holsters and sew bullet loops with the Boss but the powered machine is more convenient.

To destroy a Boss beyond repair, let alone two, you have to have either a dedication to purpose that is beyond my ability or a seriously large sledge hammer.

If you decide on a powered machine I would go with Steve at Cobra. As a beginner at machine sewing leather you will need a lot of guidance and after sale service is Steve's Forte.

[Garange]

Sounds like the Cobra is a favorite among many!

[Garange]

As someone who is in the same boat you are, I bit the bullet and spent the money for a new Cobra Class 4 from Steve at Leather Machine Company. Steve was exceptional to work with and is easy to get a hold of if you have any questions. The only issue at all I have had with my machine was assembling it, the factory had forgotten to drill one hole in the base, steve had it figured out in 30 seconds when I got him on the phone, I pulled out the cordless drill and was sewing away within a 30 more minutes. It is capable of sewing very slowly when you master the foot pedal, so after just a couple hours practicing I was feeling very comfortable and starting to speed up. Can't say it enough, Steve was great to work with. I ordered my machine when I was in Iraq which made for some difficult communications, and Steve was more than happy to work with me and was VERY military friendly.

I'll be checking into the Cobra line. Thanks...

Gary

[K-Man]

To destroy a Boss beyond repair, let alone two, you have to have either a dedication to purpose that is beyond my ability or a seriously large sledge hammer.

Or a machine that isn't worth a darn....

I do have to say that Tippmann has great customer service. I continue to use them for the making of the clicker dies for our products. I also have one of their 15-ton clickers, which I've used for clicking out over 10,000 pieces. Have never had a problem with it.

[Mongo]

+1 on the Cobra class 4. I love mine and it is easier to use than my Tippman ever was.

[dirtclod]

Sewing by hand verses powered machine is like digging sewer lines with a shovel versus a backhoe. You can do it either way. But if you want to make any money you better have a backhoe or trencher.

I've never used a Boss and i would guess it is faster then doing by hand. But it seems that folks are having problems with the newer ones. Or that's what i have read on here anyway.

Edited June 7, 2010 by dirtclod

[Denster]

Or a machine that isn't worth a darn....

I do have to say that Tippmann has great customer service. I continue to use them for the making of the clicker dies for our products. I also have one of their 15-ton clickers, which I've used for clicking out over 10,000 pieces. Have never had a problem with it.

OK! I just have to ask. K-Man what did you do to your Boss machines that destroyed them beyond Tippman's ability to repair them? If they are such a piece of junk how did Tippmann manage to sell thousands of them and why do they hold their resale like no other machine and why do ten year and older machines consistantly bring 70% and better of full retail of a new one.

Gary

Just something to consider. Do you have the ability to work on complex mechanical devices yourself? If not how close are you to someone who can service your machine. If you live any distance from L.A. which I believe is where Steve is based you will have at least one third the cost of a Boss in shipping alone. Should it need service, and eventually it will, if you are not close to a service person and have to ship it back you will need to palatize it and pay shipping both ways as well as a repair charge. These are heavy machines on the order of a few hundred pounds. These are all things you need to consider before making a purchase decision.

[Dwight]

FWIW, I own an aluminum Tippmann Boss, . . . had it now for several years, . . . had to have some personal time with Jim at Tippmann over the phone to correct some of my errors.

Perhaps some day, I may move up to an electric machine, . . . but for now, . . . I take it with me to classes I teach, . . . will go to fairs, etc., and never have to worry about power, . . . just need a strong table to clamp it on.

I just finished doing 9 belts with it (one was for a 54 inch waist), . . . and had virtually no trouble with it. They have a sale going now I believe, . . . brand new for $1195 or so, . . .

Take a look on my website, . . . all the stitching you can see was either hand stitched (verrrrrrrry little of it) or the boss.

May God bless,

Dwight

[K-Man]

OK! I just have to ask. K-Man what did you do to your Boss machines that destroyed them beyond Tippman's ability to repair them? If they are such a piece of junk how did Tippmann manage to sell thousands of them and why do they hold their resale like no other machine and why do ten year and older machines consistantly bring 70% and better of full retail of a new one.

Gary

Just something to consider. Do you have the ability to work on complex mechanical devices yourself? If not how close are you to someone who can service your machine. If you live any distance from L.A. which I believe is where Steve is based you will have at least one third the cost of a Boss in shipping alone. Should it need service, and eventually it will, if you are not close to a service person and have to ship it back you will need to palatize it and pay shipping both ways as well as a repair charge. These are heavy machines on the order of a few hundred pounds. These are all things you need to consider before making a purchase decision.

I had both their old version and the current version. I don't recall at this point what had broken on the machine(s), as it's been 6/7 years ago now. The other thing that was a true annoyance was that the machines were constantly getting out of time. Based on my personal experiences with three of the BOSS machines, I will not recommend their use for someone who desires to make higher end/quality gear. Some people have had success with the machine. I know of more who have not.

The workings or adjustments on the Artisan/Cobra/Neel's machines are a lot easier to accomplish than one may be led to believe. Routine maintenance of the machine, i.e., application of oil, keeping it clean, checking belts for any wear, will keep it running smoothly for many years. If it requires the changing out of parts, that's normally easily accomplished, even by the novice. I'm certain that either Steve at Cobra or Ryan at Neel's could walk someone through it over the phone. In addition, you can usually find industrial sewing machine repair shops nearby. Some shops even offer the service of coming to your location. I've had my two Toro 3000's for ~5 years now and I haven't had any problems with them. The only adjustments I've had to make has been when I've changed out the thread size and made minor tweaks on the tension. IMO, it's hard to gauge the resale value of these machines because you rarely see anyone reselling one.

Garange: all I can do is relate to you what my personal experiences with the sewing machines have been. I do a relatively high volume of work and make a variety of products. Good luck to you in your search.

[Shorts]

I bought a Cobra Class 3 from Steve last year and haven't looked back.

[Denster]

You have probably figured out that K-Man does not like the Tippmann Boss. I do wonder though why if you destroyed one beyond repair that you would buy another only to have it destroyed beyond repair and then go on to buy a third?

The Boss is a direct drive machine and does not get "out of time" unless you break something. Then the machine is broken not out of time. As to quality of work it sews a lock stitch as do all the others and no one would be able to tell if it was sewen on a Boss, a Toro or a Cobra.

There is no one part in the Boss that you could break that costs any significant money to replace. If you can operate an allen wrench and snap ring pliers and follow simple directions you can tear down and reassemble a Boss with no problems.

As to the effort required. A lot less than your loading press and on straight runs it's no trick to sew 60/spm.

Go to the Tippmann website and watch the videos on using and maintaining the Boss and you will see how simple it is. For most people that is.

That being said if power is what you want you can't go far wrong with a Cobra or a Cowboy for that matter.

[K-Man]

Look, Denster, I can only relate what happened in my instance/experience. BTW, Tippmann is the one who determined the machine(s) were broken beyond repair. You can verify my story with Jim Miller at Tippmann if you desire. If you want to continue to take jabs at my experience, have at it. You're just making yourself look like the fool. I've learned, through trial and error, what works and what doesn't.

As I mentioned before, I will not recommend the BOSS to someone who wants to make a quality product, all things considered. You can sit here and try and justify all day long why you think a BOSS is a better choice. I don't buy the hype/justification you're posting. Why? Because I know what my experience has been with that machine. I've read numerous other accounts of people giving up on the machine because they've come to the realization it's not going to provide them the end product they desire to make/present. So keep spewing....

I also said previously that there have been some who have had great success with the machine. Paul Long (knife sheathmaker) is one who comes to mind.

Edited June 7, 2010 by K-Man

[Denster]

Look, Denster, I can only relate what happened in my instance/experience. BTW, Tippmann is the one who determined the machine(s) were broken beyond repair. You can verify my story with Jim Miller at Tippmann if you desire. If you want to continue to take jabs at my experience, have at it. You're just making yourself look like the fool. I've learned, through trial and error, what works and what doesn't.

As I mentioned before, I will not recommend the BOSS to someone who wants to make a quality product, all things considered. You can sit here and try and justify all day long why you think a BOSS is a better choice. I don't buy the hype/justification you're posting. Why? Because I know what my experience has been with that machine. I've read numerous other accounts of people giving up on the machine because they've come to the realization it's not going to provide them the end product they desire to make/present. So keep spewing....

I also said previously that there have been some who have had great success with the machine. Paul Long (knife sheathmaker) is one who comes to mind.

Wow! You don't care for any differing opinions do you K-Man. I am relating my experience with the Boss, which is also extensive and much different than yours. The machine is either junk or it is not it can turn out a quality job or it can not everything else relates to the operator. I pointed out what I believe are things for the first time buyer to consider. If that makes me look like a fool and spewing so be it. End of story.

[Tac]

I picked up an Artisan Toro-3000 that was a "demo" machine used at a trade show. I have been using it a few times a week for almost 3 years now and have only had to replace one needle and keep it oiled and clean. It has never given me any trouble at all and is easy to adjust to different leather/projects. I really like it and for the money can't think of one single thing that has sped up my production more. Since getting it, I have found I am more likely to experiement with designs/styles than I ever was when I was hand sewing. You won't regret going to a powered machine. As a matter of fact, once you have it, you will wonder how you ever got along without it before!

-Tac

[K-Man]

Wow! You don't care for any differing opinions do you K-Man. I am relating my experience with the Boss, which is also extensive and much different than yours. The machine is either junk or it is not it can turn out a quality job or it can not everything else relates to the operator. I pointed out what I believe are things for the first time buyer to consider. If that makes me look like a fool and spewing so be it. End of story.

I have no problem with differing opinions, as long as it stays in that vein.