Hermann Oak Question

[IngleGunLeather]

I finally got a paying order, so I decided to order some Hermann Oak as I read nothing but good things about the quality of the leather. I recieved my order a couple days ago and I was very pleased with the surface. It was nice and smooth with very few marks on it. However, when I started cutting my holster yesterday I was very surprised at how difficult it was to cut. I keep my head knife very sharp. I tried cutting some Tandy leather of the same weight (8/9 oz.) to check the knife and no problem cutting the Tandy stuff. Well, I do as all good and stubborn Marines do, I continued forward and finished cutting. Well, skipping forward to edge beveling, same problem, very tough. My beveler would hardly cut it at all, very nasty edge to say the least. Repeated my tool test against some Tandy, and same as before, no problem with the tool. Now skipping to my belt loop punching, holy cow, I think I beat the heck out of that thing to get it to punch through.

Anyone else experience this with HO or any other leather?

[Denster]

Yes I've noted that with som,e not al,l Hermann Oak. I've found when I get a side that is tough to cut I lay out the patterns then case both the grain and the flesh side. It then cuts like normal.

[Shooter McGavin]

Been there before, now I only order W&C leather. Not woth the risk of getting an uncuttable piece of HO anymore, which is a shame, because it is otherwise nice leather.

[mncarpenter]

I recently finished up a "European Bend" from Tandy, and then got some Hermann Oak belt bends- the HO is much "dryer" and stiffer, more difficult to cut and sew. I've noticed when glueing that it often takes 2 coats of contact cement when gluing the flesh side, as it sucks the glue right up. Wetting/casing helps for cutting, immensely, especially when edging, and I even sew while cased, much nicer. The Euro Bend from Tandy is very nice leather btw, and wouldn't mind using if wasn't so expensive, not that the HO belt bend was much less... I do like the HO better, seems to mold better and stay put, but it seems to get too wet really easily, its like a sponge.  

[DaltonMasterson]

Yep. I ordered a sample of it to try, and had the same results. I am sticking with the Wickett and Craig as well.

DM

[ChuckBurrows]

You might also check out RJF Leather (an advertiser here) http://rjfleather.com/content/index.php/products/

This stuff works great and is in fact a Euro old style vat tanned leather. When I first checked them out Roger sent me some examples at no cost - I then sort of lucked out and got several shoulders and a couple of sides from a shop that went out of business. Next time I order I will definitely order form them - FWIW I uses W & C and Herman OAk for over 40 years until I found this stuff. Being ablet o get shoulders in various weights is real nice and last time I checked the prices are still very reasonable all things considered, plus being old style vat tanned is a plus for my customer base..

[IngleGunLeather]

You might also check out RJF Leather (an advertiser here) http://rjfleather.co...x.php/products/

This stuff works great and is in fact a Euro old style vat tanned leather. When I first checked them out Roger sent me some examples at no cost - I then sort of lucked out and got several shoulders and a couple of sides from a shop that went out of business. Next time I order I will definitely order form them - FWIW I uses W & C and Herman OAk for over 40 years until I found this stuff. Being ablet o get shoulders in various weights is real nice and last time I checked the prices are still very reasonable all things considered, plus being old style vat tanned is a plus for my customer base..

Thanks Chuck. I sent the a price request. I cut out another holster tonight on this HO and I couldn't help but notice how light, spongy and dry it felt compared to the Tandy leather.

[Eaglestroker]

CT, I got this tip from a wise old Hawaiin man telling me about 1907 slings one morning. Wet the leather.

I still only use W&C Leather but jotted that note down to myself.

[JoelR]

First off, where did you get the HO? If it is not a #1, this may be why it is not a #1. Even leathers from the same tannery will cut differently. The two sides I am currently working with are both from W&C. One is Russet the other is drum dyed black. The russet cuts like butter, the black, not so much. I remember having a conversation with the guy I ordered from about "holsterized" leather so I really don't remember if I ask him to make the black with that addition but it is stiffer and noticeably thinner than the russet. Additionally, the black is a #1 while the russet was an overstock utility grade. Yeah, maybe I'm not being much help after all...

[Spinner]

I'm thinking the same thing Joel pointed out, might be the grade or supplier's stock. I'm on my 11th side of HO for this year and have had good luck thus far. In the last year in my search for the right leather I've bought and tried:

Tandy's Craftsman Oak & Royal Meadow

SLC's Herman Oak

W&C overstock and #2 & #1 in both the russet and black

ALD's #1 russet back

Goliger HO #1

Sheridan Leather HO #1

So far out of all of those the HO #1 has been the best all around. Tools beautifully, good color and wet forms nicely (and I do some pretty big wet forming over compound curves).

I have tried it from a few places trying to save $ but in the end found that Goliger and Sheridan Leather carry the cleanest #1 HO stock outside going direct.

I typically go with Goliger due to the shipping being next day for me and $20 cheaper since they're only a few hours away.

[Shooter McGavin]

On the flip side of things ( thats actually kind of a pun, stay with me...), I ordered a few sides from W&C last week, drum dyed sides of saddle skirting. Opened them today and the flesh sides are all natural after they were split down to 7-8oz. Sort of defeats the purpose of buying drum dyed leather for me. It throws a real wrench in the workflow I have established. Maybe I'll give Glenn a call and see if they can be split and then dyed, but I'm doubting that possibility.

[Spinner]

On the flip side of things ( thats actually kind of a pun, stay with me...), I ordered a few sides from W&C last week, drum dyed sides of saddle skirting. Opened them today and the flesh sides are all natural after they were split down to 7-8oz. Sort of defeats the purpose of buying drum dyed leather for me. It throws a real wrench in the workflow I have established. Maybe I'll give Glenn a call and see if they can be split and then dyed, but I'm doubting that possibility.

I noticed the same thing Shooter, I bought 2 sides of black tooling leather last year, one in the standard 9oz and one split down to 6oz. The 6oz was the same way, skived after dying so the flesh side was only black where the dye penetrated through, the rest was grayish & natural blotches. Luckily the flesh side isn't seen in my work but otherwise it would have been a pain. Still tooled & wet formed well though so no complaints there.

[Steven Kelley]

On the flip side of things ( thats actually kind of a pun, stay with me...), I ordered a few sides from W&C last week, drum dyed sides of saddle skirting. Opened them today and the flesh sides are all natural after they were split down to 7-8oz. Sort of defeats the purpose of buying drum dyed leather for me. It throws a real wrench in the workflow I have established. Maybe I'll give Glenn a call and see if they can be split and then dyed, but I'm doubting that possibility.

I had the same issue with the drum dyed sides and had to redye everything. That was the last drum dyed side I bought from them.

On a different note, I have been ordering HO backs with mossed flesh. Very nice leather! Easy to cut, extremely smooth on the flesh side, and since there is no belly, there is virtually no waste. They cost a little more per foot, but without the belly scrap, it is a wash.

[Denster]

I had the same issue with the drum dyed sides and had to redye everything. That was the last drum dyed side I bought from them.

On a different note, I have been ordering HO backs with mossed flesh. Very nice leather! Easy to cut, extremely smooth on the flesh side, and since there is no belly, there is virtually no waste. They cost a little more per foot, but without the belly scrap, it is a wash.

Steve

Where are you ordering the HO backs from?

[Steven Kelley]

Steve

Where are you ordering the HO backs from?

Goliger Leather

[Spinner]

Goliger Leather

Well hell, been ordering from Cheryl & co. at Goliger for months now and didn't even think about asking about those. I'll have to check those out with next week's order.

[Steven Kelley]

Well hell, been ordering from Cheryl & co. at Goliger for months now and didn't even think about asking about those. I'll have to check those out with next week's order.

I called a few weeks ago to order a side, and a guy answered the phone to take my order. He said "by the way, we have these HO backs with mossed flesh in A grade", so I ordered one to try. That's all I've been ordering since. LOVE IT. I think they said they stock 6/7oz and 8/9oz in A grade. Occasionally they might have B grade. Very clean on both sides and the mossed flesh side is fanatastic. I have had an 8/9 oz HO side that was very hard to cut, but the 8/9 oz back cuts quite easily.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Steven Kelley

[Denster]

Steve. Thanks for the info.

[K-Man]

I order my leather direct from H.O. I order backs, grade A, with the mossed flesh, split to a specific oz weight. Have been doing that for 6/7 years now. The mossed flesh essentially eliminates the need for lining a holster IMO.

[terrymac]

Hey gang, hate to be the dummie, but what is "mossed flesh"? That is a new one on me

Thanks,

Terry

[triage1998]

Hey gang, hate to be the dummie, but what is "mossed flesh"? That is a new one on me

Thanks,

Terry

I would like to know also

[Shooter McGavin]

me three.

[Bluesman]

Okay Dammit.............................Give it up What the Hell is it

[bruce johnson]

It has something put onto the flesh side and then it is glazed, kind of like putting gum trag on a plain belt and then slicking it with a glass slicker, except this is the whole side.

[Denster]

It has something put onto the flesh side and then it is glazed, kind of like putting gum trag on a plain belt and then slicking it with a glass slicker, except this is the whole side.

What Bruce said. It's interesting that it doesn't seem to inhibit the absorbtion of moisture or finishes. Sure looks nice.