Needle Feed With Feed Dog Movement ?

[CustomDoug]

Do most needle feed machines also include a feed dog that moves the material along? Or is that considered another feed class? I ask because I'm considering swapping out my Consew 206rb flat bed walking foot machine for a cylinder arm version or close to it. I've found a machine that's described as "needle feed" but also has a moving feed dog (drop feed I guess). Would that system be way inferior to the walking foot for general leather work requiring #138 thread? Things like bags, vests, wallets, jackets, chaps, belts, etc. How would this system handle upholstery both leather, vinyl, cloth, etc. ?

[Wizcrafts]

Do most needle feed machines also include a feed dog that moves the material along? Or is that considered another feed class? I ask because I'm considering swapping out my Consew 206rb flat bed walking foot machine for a cylinder arm version or close to it. I've found a machine that's described as "needle feed" but also has a moving feed dog (drop feed I guess). Would that system be way inferior to the walking foot for general leather work requiring #138 thread? Things like bags, vests, wallets, jackets, chaps, belts, etc. How would this system handle upholstery both leather, vinyl, cloth, etc. ?

Typically, when one mentions a needle feed sewing machine, they are referring to one that has feed dogs moving in sync with the needle and a completely flat presser foot. These machines are built for the garment construction trade. They are especially useful when sewing stretchy material, like elastic waist bands on underwear, or stretch pants.

None of the needle feed machines in the garment class are capable of sewing with #138 thread. They probably can handle #92 thread, with a #19 needle. Juki makes some nice needle feed machines, as do its clones.

If you want to change your flatbed walking foot machine for a cylinder arm machine with similar specs, look here.

There are some needle feed, jump foot machines made for harness makers. I have one: a Union Lockstitch Machine. Some Ferdinand Bull machines are jump foot-needle feed, as are the Luberto Classics and Number 9 machines. Plus, all Campbell-Randall stitchers are jump foot, but with awl feed.

[CustomDoug]

• For sewing medium to medium heavy weight fabrics, leather, canvas, vinyl, synthetics and various laminated and coated materials
• Designed for stitching tubular and curved work
• Suitable for sewing such products as caps, cushions, boots, shoes, auto, boat and furniture upholstery, boat covers, sails, awnings, tents, light tarpaulins, camping equipment, luggage, travelware accessories, wearing apparel, coats, etc.
• High lift
• Vertical axis rotary hook
• Cylindar arm
• Safety clutch prevents the hook from being damaged
• Compound feed assures even feeding of several plies or slippery material

This compound needle feed machine I've learned, is going to be a little more than just a light duty garment class machine as it can take a size #22 needle, which would actually get me to a #207 thread if I'm not mistaken. So this one might work for my light weight stuff after all. The walking foot would be best but I've seen videos of this compound needle feed in action on upholstery leather and it seems sufficient enough. Believe me that I've seen that page of the Cowboy 227R many times, and I'd be all over it if I could. I'll be getting another one of his servo motors though, for which ever used machine I end up with. This is just one to add to my list of considerations for my flat bed replacement.

Edited November 1, 2011 by CustomDoug

[Wizcrafts]

Doug;

I'm trying to show you machines that do what you asked about. That is one of your best solutions in a cylinder arm machine. You are going to need a compound feed machine for the work you intend to sew. It is a medium priced machine with the same capabilities as your Consew 206RB.

Am I misunderstanding what you are looking for?

By the way; You'll need a #24 needle to properly sew with #207 thread, top and bottom. A #23 will get you 207 on top and 138 in the bobbin, depending on the density of the material.

[CustomDoug]

Am I misunderstanding what you are looking for?

No, it's probably me that's misunderstanding. In my previous post I was quoting the manufacturer's description and list of items they think it's made to sew. These are things I'd be wanting to use it for too. It's a list I hadn't found until after I'd posted this thread, despite my searching. I'm weighing that info along with the videos I've seen of it in action and also what you are telling me too. Wiz you've certainly helped me understand that the walking foot version is superior but the gist of my original question was basically - will this feed system (compound needle) allow me to do what I need to while using #138 thread.

[Wizcrafts]

No, it's probably me that's misunderstanding. Wiz you've certainly helped me understand that the walking foot version is superior but the gist of my original question was basically - will this feed system (compound needle) allow me to do what I need to while using #138 thread.

Yes, this compound feed system will sew everything from jeans to belts, up to 3/8 inch thickness, with #138 thread, top and bottom. You can also thread it with #207 thread and change bobbins more frequently (using #24 needles).

One thing it is not very good at is sewing light cloth, like cotton or stretch pants and shirts. That is where the needle feed, or just flat feed machines are better suited. Cloth likes to by driven by feed dogs. Vinyl and leather likes triple feed better.

[CustomDoug]

One thing it is not very good at is sewing light cloth, like cotton or stretch pants and shirts. That is where the needle feed, or just flat feed machines are better suited. Cloth likes to by driven by feed dogs.

I'm going to do as much of my cloth items as I can with my 31-15.

The other single needle cylinder arm machine on my short list is a machine that is compound feed, has alternating presser feet, and a "four-motion under feed mechanism" (that's a new one on me ).

Edited November 2, 2011 by CustomDoug

[Wizcrafts]

I'm going to do as much of my cloth items as I can with my 31-15.

The other single needle cylinder arm machine on my short list is a machine that is compound feed, has alternating presser feet, and a "four-motion under feed mechanism" (that's a new one on me ).

That's a company copying Juki's "rectangular feed dog system" mechanism and calling it "four motion"

Just one more thing to go wrong if it gets knocked out of time.

[CustomDoug]

Actually I think it may be Singer copying or using a Wheeler & Wilson's design from the mid to late 1800's. Maybe Juki borrowed it too, I don't know. This is what wiki suggests about the term - "Wilson also invented the four-motion feed mechanism; this is still seen on every machine today. This had a forward, down, back, and up motion, which drew the cloth through in an even and smooth motion." . But obviously it's not seen on every machine today unless wiki's just describing a normal drop feed system... but that's wiki for ya. Never the less, the singer manual does make a distinction between normal compound feed and a "four-motion feed mechanism" - on certain machine sub-classes that were produced from 1911 on. See the manual and compare the 153w101 to the 153w103.

Edited November 2, 2011 by CustomDoug

[Wizcrafts]

Every drop feed system has those four motions, but in a basically oval motion. It sounded a lot like the way Juki describes their "Rectangular feed" system. In this system the feed dog moves straight forward or backward, then drops straight down, then moves for the next stitch. Finally, it raises straight up. The purpose of that drive system is to provide a true and even pickup and transport of the material, to prevent gathering (as per Juki's description).