Doug Mclean Report post Posted March 14, 2009 These are the pictures of the remake on the groundseat. I'm interested in all of the feed back I can get, so if you see anything at all. Thanks in advance!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kseidel Report post Posted March 14, 2009 Doug, It is always difficult to judge a ground seat in pictures rather than in person, however, a couple of things are evident in the pics. You have a high spot just behind the maker mark. The front edge should be the highest forward point. Also, the slope of the seat runs all of the way to the dish at the bottom of the cantle. There is not a pocket of level area from the dish of the cantle forward to sit without sitting on a slope. This throws the rider off balance and makes him feel like he is leaning back. You need to take a lot more material out of the seat in the middle from the cantle base forward about 4-5 inches. It is difficult to describe seat shape in words. I'm using my hands... can you see? Keith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bruce johnson Report post Posted March 14, 2009 Doug, I am with Keith. I would scoop out in front of the cantle and make it pretty level more of the way forward. I leave my ground work mostly full in the middle of the cantle and transition to make a curve rather than an abrupt angle. I usually try to get my flattish spot starting at the cantle corners. I carry it forward to pretty near the back stirrup slot if I can. I make the front rise come up from there. I tend to like a little flatter seat with a narrower pinched front rise than some guys for a general using saddle. Attaching a couple pictures that kind of show the seat profile I go for. The roughout is the first customer ordered saddle I did. The other one is a few years ago. Rundi shot this picture at a sale, I would like to think the saddle seat is the reason he is smiling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doug Mclean Report post Posted March 14, 2009 Thanks Keith and Bruce for the quick response. Do you mind me pestering you with some more questions? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GordonA Report post Posted March 14, 2009 Hi Don, First let me congratulate you on getting this project done. I don't know what your experience level is. That said though, you have accomplished a challenging procedure. From the pics the binding looks good, and you got the whole thing put back together and ready to ride. As to be expected- Keith has pegged it. Their is not much to add. It's to bad we can't see his hands here. Here is a pic of a ground seat without the hand hole cut out yet. Things to note are the smooth transitions in all the curves, the flattish area forward of the cantle for the riders pin bones to sit on (this area is really important, note how far forward it extends. Thats what Keith is talking about to aid the riders balance in the seat), and how the main curve from cantle to base of fork is a continuous and gentle curve, with no abrupt changes bumps or humps. Getting the strainer prepped is important to all of this, but the real work is in the sculpting of the leather pieces that go on top. What ever kind of tool you use to do this sculpting, it has to be surgically sharp and properly adjusted properly so that it won't gouge or chop unevenly. A good medium cut wood carvers rasp is nice for evening the whole job out as a final step in the carving, as it works like a carpenters plane to level the surface. Hope this helps. GA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doug Mclean Report post Posted March 14, 2009 Thanks for the picture Gordon. This tree had a 16 1/2" seat 5" cantle w/ 1 1/2" dish. I ended up building my own strainer and didn't have much if any shape to it. Is there some place you can get a strainer for an extra long seat? This whole project has been an attempt at replicating a saddle that the customer already has from another maker. The tree measurements were the same and the tree maker the same. The 5" cantle w/ 1 1/2" dish seems like it might have been causing some of the problem. Thanks again for the help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bruce johnson Report post Posted March 16, 2009 Doug, Like Gordon said, Sheridan LO has good strainers. They sell some from Bill Bean that I like a lot. On some of the longer saddles I have had Bill cut me some special. I just got a mix from him of long and XLs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BondoBobCustomSaddles Report post Posted March 16, 2009 Hi Doug, I am also with Bruce on this. I am not sure about Keith, however: rather than using my hands, I use my butt! I start out with them and mould them to what looks like it is good to me, and then I sit in it. Once I have done this, I then can see/feel where it needs more skiving, I keep up the process till I am satisfied that it feels comfortable. Finally, I have the customer come and sit it, they then tell me what they feel, and if more skiving is required, I do it right there and have them continue to sit it till they are also comfortable. Generally, it ends up looking the way Bruce and Keith described it. I am sending a couple of pics of one that has gone through this process. Generally for pleasure seats they end up narrower just in front of the seat pocket. By the way, this saddle is a 16 1/2" seat with a 1 1/2" dish and 3 1/2" cantle. Hope that helps! Happy Trails! Bondo Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Denise Report post Posted March 17, 2009 I have moved the posts about the Gordon's drawdown stand to this thread in General Saddlery Construction http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=15263 to make it easier for people doing searches to find. Thanks for the extra info, Gordon. I am sure it will be helpful to many. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doug Mclean Report post Posted March 18, 2009 Thanks again for everyone's help. When you sit in this saddle the cantle seems to be more straight up and tends to push on you just above your pockets. When a tree is ordered with this tall of a cantle. What would be the normal amount of dish? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greg gomersall Report post Posted March 18, 2009 1" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kseidel Report post Posted March 18, 2009 Thanks again for everyone's help. When you sit in this saddle the cantle seems to be more straight up and tends to push on you just above your pockets. When a tree is ordered with this tall of a cantle. What would be the normal amount of dish? Doug, I like a 1 1/4" dish in the tree with a 5" cantle 13" wide. I usually finish out about 1". 1 1/2" in the tree is harder to fill to the desired shape without sitting the rider too deep and feeling the top of the cantle. Only one inch in the tree can sometimes be too shallow. If you are using 12" wide, 1" is plenty. Keith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BondoBobCustomSaddles Report post Posted March 18, 2009 Doug, Here are a couple of pictures of one I did with a 6" cantle. It had 1 1/2" dish. What I like to do is "hang" the leather from the top of the cantle to the seat bottom in order to create a smooth gradual transition that sets the rider a little forward and keeps him from "banging " into the top of the cantle when the horse is moving. Most people ask for those high cantles because they think they are "cool and old timey" and they think they need them in order to stay put when riding. Truth is, once they start riding a lot they will find that they do not need all that deep pocket in the seat and began to become uncomfortable with it. It is best to make a comfortable seat, unless they are just going to set the saddle on a stand somewhere as a conversation piece. Of course that is just my opinion, and like belly buttons, we all have one! Hope that helps. Happy Trails! Bondo Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
