Need Sewing Machine Advice

[Deanimator]

I'm looking to get a sewing machine suitable for low to medium volume holster making. I'm planning on making pocket, IWB and belt slide holsters, along with a few other items.

I've got around $500 to spend. Used is acceptable.

Thanks in advance.

[Luke Hatley]

I'm looking to get a sewing machine suitable for low to medium volume holster making. I'm planning on making pocket, IWB and belt slide holsters, along with a few other items.

I've got around $500 to spend. Used is acceptable.

Thanks in advance.

Good Luck....not to be a smart A#%, save up some more $$$$$ be prepaired to go $1500.00

for a used one even higher that that.

On the other hand a New one $2195.00 from Artisan.

check the advertizers at the top of the page,

Edited June 2, 2010 by Luke Hatley

[Mongo]

A good $500 dollar machine is a rare item. That is why you have not received many responses to your post. You might find a used Tippman Boss for $700. I bought a new one for $1200, I wish I would have waited until I had the money for a power machine. I still have the Tippman, but I now use a Cobra class 4 (a copy of the Juki 441) from the Leather Machine Company. It was much more expensive, but it is worth every dime. There are other copies of the Juki 441 offered by other companies. If I were able to start all over again I would have hand stitched and saved my money until I could have afforded what I'm using now.

[TwinOaks]

Don't buy into hype from ebay either. The advertisers at the top of the page sell machines set up to sew leather. There are no 'table top' machines (old singers, pfaff, etc.) that will do what you want. You'll want a needle feed (with jump foot), or a unison feed (walking foot w/ feed dogs, and needle feed) to handle the materials, and it will help to have it set up with a speed reducer for increased torque.

[Wizcrafts]

I'm looking to get a sewing machine suitable for low to medium volume holster making. I'm planning on making pocket, IWB and belt slide holsters, along with a few other items.

I've got around $500 to spend. Used is acceptable.

Thanks in advance.

You are going to need to at least double the amount you wanted to spend to get an entry level industrial machine that is suitable for "low to medium volume" production of the holsters you have described. Your least expensive machine is based on the ancient Singer 45K series cylinder arm machines that have long cylindrical bobbins and a flat pressor foot. A Cowboy 2500 is reasonably priced around a grand and can sew up to almost 1/2" of leather, with #346 thread and a #26 needle. It is a bottom feed, straight stitch machine, with a non-walking flat foot, a heavy top pressure spring, plus beefed up thread tension and take-up parts. Such a machine will sew the types of holsters you described.

Contact Bob Kovar, at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, at 866-362-7397, for more details and the actual price.

[Cobra Steve]

Hi Deanimator, may I suggest that you call the different Sewing Machine Dealers and gather up as much info as you can get before you make your decision. Remember, the info that you get is free. If you are set on $500.00, then you should call Bob Kovar. Thanks, Steve

[Deanimator]

Hi Deanimator, may I suggest that you call the different Sewing Machine Dealers and gather up as much info as you can get before you make your decision. Remember, the info that you get is free. If you are set on $500.00, then you should call Bob Kovar. Thanks, Steve

Thanks to you and everyone else for your replies so far.

I'm a beginner at leather working and holster making, but am a long time gun owner and shooter. Given the apparent lack of gainful employment these days, I'm hoping to make at least a little money making concealment holsters. I've recently made my first holster, a pocket holster for my 2" S&W Model 36. Despite a trivial mistake here and there, I'm quite pleased with it. I just finished dying it. My next project is a tuckable IWB holster, since those are typically rather expensive.

I'm having to borrow the money for the machine from relatives, so I'm trying to keep the cost down.

Again, thanks for the information and I appreciate any more that everyone might have.

[Wizcrafts]

Deanimator;

The advice you are receiving, about the sewing machines better suited to holster making, comes from lots of experience. We are trying to save you the time, frustration and expense of working your way up to the machine you needed all along. The type of machine I suggested is really only suitable for flat leather sewing, where the bottom can have tooth marks without ruining the job. If you cannot have teeth marks from the feed dog you will need to move up further, to a compound feed walking foot, or needle and jumping foot machine.

If you can gather together a couple of grand, you can buy a new heavy cylinder arm machine capable of sewing up to 3/4". If one thousand becomes your limit, get the strongest machine you can find. It should be a dedicated leather sewing machine, not an upholstery machine and definitely not a garment machine or home machine. If you have never sewn with an industrial machine you may have trouble operating one with a clutch motor. Instead, buy one with a servo motor installed. Some setups have a speed reducer between the motor and machine flywheel. Another type, sold by Bob Kovar, in Toledo, has a built-in speed reducer. I bought one and like it a lot. It really punches through thick leather and is very easy to control with the floor pedal.

Since you are already in Ohio, Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines should be a logical choice. Bob Kovar, the owner, is the US dealer for the Cowboy line of heavy leather stitchers. He also has many used machines (not Cowboy) in stock. Take some leather there and try you out some machines!

[Deanimator]

Does anybody know anything about the Tacsew T111-155? Is $850 a reasonable price?

Thanks.

[CowboyBob]

If that machine will work for you it's about $100.00 more than they usually sell for,are you sure that's the machine you need?It won't use a thread larger than #138 & on Holsters like most leather sewing people want to use larger thread than that,not that it's needed for strength but larger thread really helps to sell your product beacuse it looks better.I'd say you need to use at least #207 or 277 to make them look right & there's no way this Tacsew can sew with it.

Bob

[Wizcrafts]

Does anybody know anything about the Tacsew T111-155? Is $850 a reasonable price?

Thanks.

You are talking about an upholstery walking foot machine, based on the decades old Singer 111w155 series, which is the grandfather of today's walking foot machines. It not built for sewing thick leather or thick thread. It is just a few hundred dollars cheaper that the real leather stitcher I suggested you ask about (Cowboy 2500). Our dealers specialize in machines that are actually capable of feeding and sewing thick leather with heavy thread. Ebay sewing machine vendors do not usually carry such machines.

Here is a scan I made from a product sheet for the Cowboy 2500, which should be perfect for making the holsters you described. There are optional pressor feet and a swing-down edge guide available at a reasonable price. They should have one setup to try out, at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines.

I don't know if the prices in the scanned sheet are still in effect, or are lower or higher now. I got this flyer about a year ago.

Edited June 4, 2010 by Wizcrafts

[Deanimator]

If that machine will work for you it's about $100.00 more than they usually sell for,are you sure that's the machine you need?It won't use a thread larger than #138 & on Holsters like most leather sewing people want to use larger thread than that,not that it's needed for strength but larger thread really helps to sell your product beacuse it looks better.I'd say you need to use at least #207 or 277 to make them look right & there's no way this Tacsew can sew with it.

Bob

Thanks for the information.

I'm completely ignorant of these things, so that's why I'm asking.

[busted]

Does anybody know anything about the Tacsew T111-155? Is $850 a reasonable price?

Thanks.

I have one of those machines. I bought it 4 or 5 years ago. I paid 285.00 for the head, I had a table

and motor with a clutch. It will sew 3/8th inch material easily. I put a speed reducer on it turned it

down to 800 spm works great. I can't say that is a reasonable price. I have seen them for 350.00.

You might want do check Craigs list. I have found a #1 Landis in there for 350.00. Good luck in your

quest. I thought of another place you might check it is called Atlantic Sewing or something like that.

If you live in the midwest Bob Kovar would be a good place to start.

[Wizcrafts]

Both Bob Kovar and I have mentioned in our replies that the Tacsew 111 will not handle thread sizes larger than #T135/V138, without grief. We are both referring to bonded nylon thread. Number 135/138 bonded nylon thread has a breaking point of about 24 pounds of pull and can be sewn using a #22 needle. This is technically adequate for a pancake style holster with a gently drawn gun, but not for a competition or police holster, where a tightly secured weapon may be drawn quickly and without finesse, in a life or death situation. For these you should use at least #277 bonded nylon or bonded polyester. The bonded 277 thread has a tensile strength of about 45 pounds and is thick enough to give a solid appearance to the stitches. This thread size requires a #24 or #25 needle.

Most commercial holsters are sewn together with either #346 bonded thread, or 5 cord waxed linen thread (requires a needle and awl stitcher). This presents a solid, professional top appearance which will withstand years of use and abuse. The waxed linen thread has the advantage of being locked at every stitch, by the wax hardening in the knots. If one stitch breaks, the rest usually stay put, just like happens on leather soles of shoes (sewn with 6 cord bees-waxed linen thread).

The thread and needle sizes I am referring to are usually beyond the normal handling capability of upholstery machines. For instance, I have a souped up walking foot machine (Consew 206RB clone), paired to a special gear reduction servo motor. When I install a #25 needle and thread it with #277 thread, the needle can barely penetrate 2 layers of 9-10 oz belt leather, at slow speed. After a few stitches the needle tends to get caught in the leather and either skips stitches, melts the thread, or bunches it up underneath.

A heavy duty leather stitcher, like a 45 class, or 441 class machine, is built with stronger bearings, casings, moving/take-up parts, bigger pressor and needle bars, heavier top pressure and tension disk springs and a huge bobbin, which sits inside a large shuttle case that has sufficient clearance for #346 thread in the bobbin and for the top thread and big needles. These machines will penetrate thick, hard leather, with a big needle, threaded with thick thread, without binding or breaking parts. The extra heavy top pressure spring with hold the foot down on the leather, as the needle withdraws to form the stitch, preventing skipped stitches. These machine usually are equipped with a lube pot on top, which are meant to keep the top thread lubricated and to provide cooling of the needle, which gets seriously hot going through so much leather. Such machines are designed to sew maximum thicknesses of 7/16" (45 class) up to 3/4" (441 class), depending on the model and how the needle/pressor foot/feet is/are setup.

All of the new super heavy leather stitchers come with a 1/2 or 3/4 hp servo motor and a speed reducer, for serious punching power.

There is no way for an upholstery sewing machine to match the handling capability of a designated leather stitcher. Yes, they will sew 3/8" if adjusted to raise high. Yes, they can sew with #207 top thread and maybe even #277, with #138/207 in the bobbin, which hopefully is a large M size bobbin. But, they are more likely to have problems sewing into 3/8" with #207 thread than a bigger machine like the ones described above, which can sew with #346 thread, into well beyond 3/8" of belt or bridle leather.

[TwinOaks]

Wiz, doesn't that 2500 have only a lower feed dog mechanism for movement? I'm sure the design would be great for a lot of things where a needle feed isn't necessary but with anything that has grain side showing on both sides of a project, is it gonna leave tracks on the backside of any leather sewn?

[Wizcrafts]

Wiz, doesn't that 2500 have only a lower feed dog mechanism for movement? I'm sure the design would be great for a lot of things where a needle feed isn't necessary but with anything that has grain side showing on both sides of a project, is it gonna leave tracks on the backside of any leather sewn?

Yes, the bottom teeth will leave some marks. They can be rubbed out or smoothed with a plastic or bone slicking tool, or a modeling spoon. Another trick to get rid of tooth marks is to flip the holster upside down on a hard surface and tap along the stitch lines with a cobblers hammer. This sets the thread well into both surfaces and removes most tooth marks. This would be followed by edging and final finishes.

I suggested that the O.P. drive from Cleveland to Toledo, to try out various machines with his own leather. That way he will get the best machine for the job, appearance and available money.

Edited June 5, 2010 by Wizcrafts