my new art work seats

[Guest]

I finally did my new art work seats and I submit them for your inspection......

[Beaverslayer]

Hi Dave,

That is one BEAUTIFUL seat. I'm impressed beyond words.The laceing is extremely neat as well, and I love the way you finnish the underside with that extra touch of lace.

Can you let me know your secret for lacing the edge aroud the seat, I'm pretty sure you don't stretch the leather over the pan but lace the edge as a complete ubit so to speak.

How hard is it to line up your holes, and do you have to make your top piece a bit smaller to get the leather to stretch?

Inquiring minds you know.

Ken

[Roger]

nice work! i like the dragon

[Guest]

Hi Dave,

That is one BEAUTIFUL seat. I'm impressed beyond words.The laceing is extremely neat as well, and I love the way you finnish the underside with that extra touch of lace.

Can you let me know your secret for lacing the edge aroud the seat, I'm pretty sure you don't stretch the leather over the pan but lace the edge as a complete ubit so to speak.

How hard is it to line up your holes, and do you have to make your top piece a bit smaller to get the leather to stretch?

Inquiring minds you know.

Ken

Hi Ken,

The top and bottom of the seat are totally different shapes. The holes are equally spaced (100 of them) around the outside. Let me see if I have pic of the top and bottom leathers. The lacing style is either double cordovan or basketweave.

[Beaverslayer]

Dave,

Thanks...I am very impressed, that is beautiful work, and iy seems like it would be so much easier to do than stretching the leather over the pan.

I've done a few seats, but in NO WAY are they anywhere to what you do.

Ken

[Guest]

Dave,

Thanks...I am very impressed, that is beautiful work, and iy seems like it would be so much easier to do than stretching the leather over the pan.

I've done a few seats, but in NO WAY are they anywhere to what you do.

Ken

Hi Ken,

I'm not sure if it is easier....the large basketweave lace around the edge required 11 hours just to lace it. Beeze says he does an entire seat in 15 hours from beginning to end. So you be the judge....I don't have to wrestle the leather to get it tight but it does require more time.

Dave Theobald

[Beaverslayer]

Yes Dave, that's my biggest problem as well. My fingers are old and maybe a bit arthritic, so stretching the leather is VERY hard to do. I really like the way your seat looks on the underside, a VERY proffessional look to them.

As for the lacing time, I lace a basket weave at about 28 inches an hour, and the double cordovan at about 19 inches an hour. I always time myself so as when I have to quote the cost to a customer, I am able to figure the time it will take faily accurately.

And again...BEAUTIFUL work.

Ken

[Guest]

Yes Dave, that's my biggest problem as well. My fingers are old and maybe a bit arthritic, so stretching the leather is VERY hard to do. I really like the way your seat looks on the underside, a VERY proffessional look to them.

As for the lacing time, I lace a basket weave at about 28 inches an hour, and the double cordovan at about 19 inches an hour. I always time myself so as when I have to quote the cost to a customer, I am able to figure the time it will take faily accurately.

And again...BEAUTIFUL work.

Ken

Thanks Ken and I'm glad you like the seat; but I doubt that you'll be lacing a 36" seat with 1/4" roo lacing at that speed .... the lace has to be pulled very tight to make things lie correctly. My speed on the basketweave is about 3.5" per hour. and the double cordovan about 9" per hour. Things slow a bit when pulling heavy lace through two layers of 9 oz leather.

Dave

Edited May 17, 2007 by David

[Johanna]

David- that speed seems very slow, even pulling through heavy leathers. I've laced many a saddlebag etc, and even on the jobs I needed my pliers, that seems slow. How long is the lace are you using before you splice? If your holes are lining up correctly, why is it taking so long? What kind of needle do you use? Do you use both hands? Are you doing something else while you are working, (like watching tv) that might slow you down?

I'm not trying to be rude (obviously, you do beautiful work and the results are what count) but I wonder why you're not faster. You know in this business, time is money, because we are limited to what our two hands can produce. I'm just wondering if we could speed up your rater without sacrificing the quality.

Johanna

(He didn't screw up enough to call SSP Sally, but that isn't a bad idea. I know some of the best leatherworkers in the world, and I could have one fine looking bike, huh? I still have my motorcycle license, though I haven't driven a bike in 10 years or so. With the way gas prices are going, it's not a bad idea... I just need a saddlebag that will safely hold my laptop! LOL)

[Guest]

David- that speed seems very slow, even pulling through heavy leathers. I've laced many a saddlebag etc, and even on the jobs I needed my pliers, that seems slow. How long is the lace are you using before you splice? If your holes are lining up correctly, why is it taking so long? What kind of needle do you use? Do you use both hands? Are you doing something else while you are working, (like watching tv) that might slow you down?

I'm not trying to be rude (obviously, you do beautiful work and the results are what count) but I wonder why you're not faster. You know in this business, time is money, because we are limited to what our two hands can produce. I'm just wondering if we could speed up your rater without sacrificing the quality.

Johanna

(He didn't screw up enough to call SSP Sally, but that isn't a bad idea. I know some of the best leatherworkers in the world, and I could have one fine looking bike, huh? I still have my motorcycle license, though I haven't driven a bike in 10 years or so. With the way gas prices are going, it's not a bad idea... I just need a saddlebag that will safely hold my laptop! LOL)

Johanna,

The holes don't line up perfectly due to the hole size and the difference in size and shape of the top and bottom leathers. The holes (100 of them) are equally spaced around the circumference of the top and bottom as you can see in the pictures. If you want the lace to cover the raw leather edges the holes can't be much more than a hole's diameter apart on the top. This means they are a bit further apart on the bottom. Also the lace is 1/4" kangaroo and there isn't a needle around that would hold it. The 1/4" lace is nearly twice as thick as the 3/16" lace so there is a lot of drag on the lace going through the two 5/32" holes. Not sure what you mean by using both hands. It would be difficult to handle a near 6 pound seat with one hand....I lace in 3-4 foot lengths. Each hole must be enlarged a bit with an awl as I lace around the pan. This is probably the most time consuming thing....but punching a larger hole would be unsightly. Using an awl the hole enlarges while I lace and then contracts a bit when I'm finished. Perhaps I take more time than needed but I think the results are worth it and I haven't found a short cut that works.

Dave

[Don101]

As usual some first clas work David very clean nice work ... i like the dragon also

[abn]

My speed on the basketweave is about 3.5" per hour

Dave, you're a true glutton for punishment! At that rate, there's no way in the world I'd have the patience to hang on for a full 36" seam!

As always, awesome work.

Best, -Alex

[Patrice]

As usual! awesome work

[Guest]

Don, Alex and Patrice

Thanks for the great comments guys it really means a lot.

Alex, I think my speed on the edge lacing is my fault for being so slow....enlarging each pair of holes with an awl and then pulling each stitch as tight as I do is very time consuming. The awl must also be used to do each "under" stitch in the pattern. Maybe I shouldn't pull it as tight as I do.... my edge lace feels like it is wrapped around a steel bar. That may not be the way to do basketweave but I like the way it looks. For my taste I think "loose" lacing looks messy. That is one the the things I like about kangaroo lace. You can pull the bejeebers out of it (especially the 1/4" stuff...it is REALLY thick)! Calfskin lace tends to crack or split or even break if you pull it as tight as I like it.

Dave Theobald

Edited May 17, 2007 by David

[Roger]

hey dave..

have you thought about using an oval punch instead of round?

[Guest]

hey dave..

have you thought about using an oval punch instead of round?

Good idea Beeze, do you have any preference as to brand?

Dave

[JohnD]

Hi David,

I think all your seats are incredible. Your posts are actually one of the things I check for almost daily, To see if you've posted any new pics.

As for a needle for lacing with 1/4" kangaroo lace, have you tried the Jumbo Perma Lok Needle (part#

1193-02) frome tandy leather factory?( http://tandyleatherfactory.com/products.asp?dept=260 )The lace threads into the back end of a solid brass cylinder with a rounded point tip. I've used them before, not for anything fancy just a crisscross type lace, they seem to work well. just wanted to mention it. keep up the great work.

John

[Roger]

Good idea Beeze, do you have any preference as to brand?

Dave

can't say that i do. i was looking through the weaver cataloge the other day and nicticed they sell them.

that is the first time i recall seeing an oval punch. not sure who made them or who else carries them

[Roger]

dave,

i see that hide crafter carries a few oval punches also. 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4". weaver carries a few more sizes.

they call them belt punches

[shirleyz]

Hi Dave,

Again, awesome work buddy! Sorry it took me so long, I've kinda been away from the comp. Beautiful work as usual.

Shirley

www.badassseats.com

[BruceGibson]

David,

Awesome, as always. If it's okay with everyone, I'll just sit here humbled.

[whinewine]

http://tandyleatherfactory.com/products.asp?dept=260[/url] )The lace threads into the back end of a solid brass cylinder with a rounded point tip. I've used them before, not for anything fancy just a crisscross type lace, they seem to work well. just wanted to mention it.

the perma-loc needles are great with latigo-type lace.

with use, lace tips seem to become more & more flexible & to continue on, you have to either dip them into a glue or lacquer to harden them up or re-cut the tip. permalocs just screw on. i've used them since the '70s, when they were known as 'life-eye' needles. tandy has 3 different sizes, the middle size being the most commonly used for latigo. i don't use the smallest for anything other than the 1mm & 2mm round lacing, they are way too thick for flat lace.

[Guest]

Hey All,

Thanks for the great comments and suggestions I'll look into all the needle suggestions....I'll try anything that may speed things up. Johanna's comment even prompted me to redraw my patterns to better align the holes. I had patterns that worked and the business took off so quickly that I never thought to perfect the patterns to make them even better. Thanks Johanna! ...sorry for being away for so long....I felt a cold coming on and before I knew it I had full blown pneumonia! Great fun, missed three days at work and felt really terrible.....I've been away from the leather shop for a few days.....and this weekend I did go to see my older son and help him work on his new scoot (a bobber)... I had fun; but for him it was just like being back at the bike shop.....We are shooting to have it done and on the road by the end of July....It's tough when we both have real jobs and need to squeeze in making a dozen seats a month....It doesn't leave much time for bike building. I have one seat order for the Smoke Out that is due in a couple weeks....I'll post some pics when done..... I sure wish I could see the bike before I get started! Oh and they already told me....it is to be black! How can such creative bike builders be satisfied with black seats on everything...@!@#@%$**()$@%(that's cursing in case you wondered).

Dave Theobald

still stunned that people visit here to look at MY posts? Wow, I don't know what to say.

[Roger]

the smokeout is just a couple weeks away. i am still hoping to put together enough cash to make the trip this year.

i use perma-loc needles for all my lacing. most all my stuff is done with 1/8" roo lace and they work great for that.

i have a jumbo that i use for latgo and 1/4" roo

[Johanna]

For anyone reading this thread...this is what works for me. YMMV

I use Life-Eye (Permalock) needles, too. If the leather lace breaks off inside, just hold the needle with a pair of pliers and burn it out. I trim the lace to a point and screw it in. I also sharpen Life-Eye needles. I do not like the pronged (hooked) ones at all. It seems like they lose the lace and tear up my hands. A Life-Eye can take quite a tug, securely. As I'm lacing, I never set the needle down (It keeps the lace from twisting) and I use my left hand for the final tug and pinch. If you do twist the lace with a Life-Eye, you can just unscrew the lace from the needle and yank out the errant stitches, rather than wrestling the lace right side up through the holes with a pointy modeling tool.

Anytime I have to sew two pieces together, if at all possible, I punch my holes with the two pieces right on top of each other (one punch, two holes) and that method helps to line up my holes better. I can't carve leather worth a toot, but I can lace and sew like a wild thing. I had to keep up with Little Jon when we had the shop, and our income was determined by how fast and how much we could get done, with our own hands.

Johanna