Problems With Tandy's Metal V-Gouge

[LeatherNerd]

Hi all,

I have the "other" kind of V-gouge from Tandy, the all-metal one. The staff all recommended the other one with the wooden handle but it was out of stock and I needed to cut gouges in a product and ship it right away.

I have this one: http://www.tandyleather.com/en/product/craftool-adjustable-v-gouge-2

And it sounds like everybody loves this one better: http://www.tandyleather.com/en/product/craftool-adjustable-v-gouge

I see why this gouge is problematic. The blade has over 1/8" of play up and down, and with the blade sharpened on the outside, it naturally pushes itself up and out of the leather. With the blade adjusted far enough out to cut 5oz leather clean in half, I can depress the blade all the way back up into the handle.

I spent about an hour fiddling with it, and found the design to be fundamentally flawed, but perhaps fixable. The adjustment knob has a keyed post that pushes the back of the blade up and down, and the blade has a notch to fit over the post. To make sure there's enough tolerance for the blade to swing at different angles, there's a huge gap between the top and the bottom. I'm away from my shop today but can post pictures tonight if it helps.

For now what I've done is punch a hole in a piece of 5oz leather and wedge it onto the post inside the notch on the blade. This stiffens the play considerably, but also makes the knob difficult to turn. The blade still has enough play to pop up out of the leather sometimes so getting a clean gouge requires multiple passes.

Does anybody else have this tool, and is there a trick to making it work well? Is it a well-known "take it back and get the other one" kind of thing?

Thanks!

Dave

[electrathon]

They have had she same problem as far back as I know. I agree, it is basically unusable. I was going to build an adjustment nut with the proper size of slot, but never did. I ended up buying one from Ron's tools instead. The other one you listed has the same problem, just not as bad. Both of them will cut very shallow, then dive in deep and ruin your leather.

[Art]

I'd like to say I don't, but I have three or more of these things dating back to the '60s. Seem like they always end up in tool collections for some reason. I have never got the block type to work at all, and the hand tool type is only a little better. It is not terribly hard to ruin a decent piece of leather with one of these things. I don't think anything short of redesigning a new cutting blade would work to correct the problem of how poorly it is made. There is hope from TLF. There new stitching groover is little better than worthless IMO, but it seems the problems are all in manufacture sloppiness and quality control. A recut with the Foredom can make-up for a lot of the functional problems, and then it will cut a respectable groove for stitching. Once that is accomplished, a French Edger can be used to widen the groove. Personally, Ron Edmonds (Ron's Tools) used to make three sizes of freehand stitch groovers that I was lucky enough to purchase in a moment of relative flushness. The largest of them will cut a groove that you could lay a piece of parachute cord in. This large size is the perfect groover, and if you need something wider, a French Edger will do the trick and if it needs to be deeper, run the groover through again.

Art

[LeatherNerd]

Ouch. Thanks for the tips! I will save my pennies for a nice one like Ron's groover. Until then... I may try the wooden one but it sounds like either way I'm going to have trouble. I'll see if I can't fixate the blade a little better. My FIL is a retired machinist who may have some good advice on how to turn the post/slot into a continuous-contact surface, like single-toothed gear.

Then again with the emphasis on "retired" he may say "Yep, that could be done... by somebody else. Go away." :D

Thanks!

[TinkerTailor]

I have a hand type that is marked "rampart-tool-co" with made in usa stamped on the brass ferrule. I got it in an old tool collection. It is tight and smooth. No play in any direction. Holds an edge forever, even when i go off the edge of the leather and run it into the wood table......

I have a couple of rampart tools from the same collection. All are nice quality tools. All say "pat pend" on them as well as made in usa. Copys of most are now in tandys catalog. Dont know much about the company however.

[LeatherNerd]

I have a hand type that is marked "rampart-tool-co" with made in usa stamped on the brass ferrule. I got it in an old tool collection.

Nifty! I found a rampart gouge for about $14.00 in a vintage tool collection website. It's fixed 3/32" and I have no idea what condition the blade is in but for that price it's probably worth investigating.

Thank you!

[TinkerTailor]

Nifty! I found a rampart gouge for about $14.00 in a vintage tool collection website. It's fixed 3/32" and I have no idea what condition the blade is in but for that price it's probably worth investigating.

Thank you!

Mine is a 3/32 as well.

[LeatherNerd]

Thank you kindly, @TinkerTailor! I have this coming in the mail now: https://www.vintagetools.net/product/rampart-tool-co-332-inch-gouge-600ey

I noticed there are two styles; one seems to adjust with a screw in the ferrule. The other (which I ordered) has a knurled knob to take up the slack. I realize that this is the same mechanism as the other Tandy gouge, but I'm counting on better machining and craftsmanship so there will be nearly zero play. It that's not the case I'll order one of the other style.

I came home and took some pictures of the gubbins of my metal gouge; I wonder if I should publish my "fix" for taking up some of the slack in the tool? I can get semidecent cuts now and can even push the blade down into the surface of leather to start a gouge instead of needed to start the gouge at an edge.

[SovereignVS]

I was about to buy the metal V- gouge from Springfield Leather.

I'm wondering if this gouge has the same issues as the one from Tandy.

[LeatherNerd]

I was about to buy the metal V- gouge from Springfield Leather.

I'm wondering if this gouge has the same issues as the one from Tandy.

I can't speak for anybody else, but I infer from Art's post:

I have three or more of these things dating back to the '60s... I have never got the block type to work at all...

that the design itself is fundamentally flawed.

I've shimmed my tool and made it mostly workable, and I'm talking with my metalworking FIL about other ways to tighten up the play. I wonder if I should start a post about fixing my gouge or if I should just join in the chorus of "avoid this tool". :-/

Edited October 20, 2015 by LeatherNerd

[Art]

If you have the time, go for it. If you end up with a tool that does what you want it to, then you are ahead, if not, you are out your time.

Art

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Like Art, I too have one sitting on the shelf that never gets used because it doesn't work worth a tinkers damn. Unlike Art, I am older and learned quicker, so I only have one!!! You don't have to hit me in the head with a 2X4 to get me to learn!!!!

Bob

[Art]

Like Art, I too have one sitting on the shelf that never gets used because it doesn't work worth a tinkers damn. Unlike Art, I am older and learned quicker, so I only have one!!! You don't have to hit me in the head with a 2X4 to get me to learn!!!!

Bob

Unfortunately Bob, you can't buy tool "collections" without one of those damned things being in there. When you buy collections (better to call them bunches) of tools you tend to get a few. So, if I have to buy a worthless gouge to get a set of Christensen Bulldogs, or really good set of Swedish Pattern Lasting Pliers, I'm on board for that. I just won't sell them on to some newby leatherworker, hence, I have a few. If you are even the average tool nut, these gouges really do seem to multiply like lemmings. Unlike Bob, It didn't take hitting me in the head with a 2x4 for me to realize that I never should ever buy one at a Tandy!!!!!

Art

[LeatherNerd]

For those who have the time and/or the bloodymindedness, here's what I did to mine to make it mostly tolerable:

First, I cut a shim/spacer out of 5oz leather. I fiddled with the length so it would fit all the way at the top of the swing, but also be long enough behind the post to "catch" and prevent it turning with the post (this isn't strictly necessary; I just didn't want it to work itself around to the keyhole and slipping off the notch in the blade).

The keyhole is a 1/8" hole which I then cut a 90° notch in so it would slide over the post. Make sure it's not too wide to fit behind the post when the rig is assembled.

Reassemble and you should basically be good to go. This took 95% of the play out of my blade. I have noticed that it simply will not cut a gouge starting from the edge, however. I have to place the blade on the surface and start along the line, and the blade will push itself down into the leather. Once done, turn the piece around and cut the edge you originally started from.

Mine is VERY cheap, meaning the post and threads show lathe gouges, and then they plated chrome over the top of that. As a result, the post gets really hard to turn at the top of the swing (fulling extending the blade). I fixed this by putting a dab of Flitz metal polish on the threads and running it back and forth. It REALLY did not like turning with the polish on the threads, but after a few good hard twists the worst of the chromed bumpies polished out and it turns very freely now.

In polishing the threads I removed some chrome which exposed the metal, which is probably not stainless steel. To prevent it from getting rusty (and to give it that last little bit of slickness) I put a drop of 3-in-1 oil on the threads to coat and protect. <soapbox>DO NOT USE WD-40, it's a rust penetrant and metal protector, but not a proper lubricant. It dries to a gummy wax.</soapbox>

I've attached pics of the shim and how it looks in my gouge with the blade fully extended--you can see the shim has to bend a bit to get around the screw posts.

Good luck, and enjoy! Or, perhaps in this case, suffer less!

P.S. Is this worth posting as a separate thread called "How To Fix That Crappy V-Gouge" or similar?

Most seasoned leatherworkers have already abandoned this tool. This might help some newbies get some extra life out of theirs, but maybe we should be discouraged from doing so so we can get on to using a proper gouging tool?

Edited October 22, 2015 by LeatherNerd

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

:head_hurts_kr:It only took me one hit to get the message!

Bob

[LeatherNerd]

My Rampart Tools 3/32" gouge arrived today!

It had a slight patina of rust in one spot but that polished right out. It was mostly sharp, two or three passes on the strop and it cut easily into a test piece. Used it to cut a deep channel near one edge of my strop, applied rouge and stropped it right good. Now it cuts smooth and clean, peeling up a long, unbroken curl in the first pass.

This tool is MUCH easier to hold and work, and far and away easier to guide with a straightedge. Zero play in the tip even though it's adjustable. MADE IN U.S.A., back when that really meant something. There's just no comparison to quality workmanship! <3 <3 <3

The only reason my metal v-gouge isn't already in the trash is that the Rampart tool makes a round-bottomed groove. How the heck am I supposed to accidentally shear my leather clean in half with this round-nosed nonsense?!?

Edited October 23, 2015 by LeatherNerd

[Boriqua]

I have the same tool for years and yea the blade goes up and down at will. I have managed to get good uses out of it though when making boxes and such. What I do is start with the blade down just a bit. hold to ruler and pass .. then lower it some more and pass again and do that until I have the depth I want. Not pleasant, not as it should be but I dont need it that often. but now you have me thinking about pulling it apart and making it actually work the way it should.

[LeatherNerd]

¡Weeeeepaaaaa Boriqua! (Pasé dos años en Borinquen hacen 25 años ya....)

Now that my gouge is shimmed and honed, I can get a clean single cut if I have the depth dialed in right, but I often find that multipass is unavoidable. I went to Tandy's website and nearly laughed myself sick today. They have training videos for both types of gouge, so I watched them. George demonstrates the wood-handled gouge with authority and grace. His video with the metal gouge on the other hand, the camera always seems to cut away right before he tries to make a tricky cut (like turn a corner or turn the gouge around to clean up the start of the channel). It was highly amusing.

Good luck!

[fredk]

I too have one of these awful V gouges. Its now somewhere in the bottom of my main tool box.

Thanks for the info on the fix, I'll have to try that.

I got this V gouge to replace the wood working carving chisels I was using. It never replaced them.

[howie696]

I must be missing something my V gouge hsa no play either sideways or up and down and cuts a clean groove which I then open with a french skive if needed

[LeatherNerd]

I must be missing something my V gouge hsa no play either sideways or up and down and cuts a clean groove which I then open with a french skive if needed

That's awesome. From the responses I'm getting it sounds like they're manufactured with very wide tolerances, which means that the occasional one may come off the line tuned just right. Did yours come from Tandy, or a different mfr?

Mine has zero play left/right, but without the shim it plays up and down over 1/8". The first time I dialed it way out to cut into some 12oz leather, I placed it on the leather and the blade vanished up into the case. The beveling on the blade is pretty variable as well. I reground mine to have a slight upward bias, so it always tries to float up out of the leather, never slip down into it. That way if the shim slips and the blade plays, I get a thinner cut rather than a ruined project. I do notice now that to operate my metal v-gouge I have to maintain firm downward pressure to keep the blade down in the groove. I actually like this as I can tell by firmness if I'm making a clean, even cut.

I bought the wooden-handle style of v-gouge and it arrived last week. I haven't tried anything other than test cuts yet, but so far it's about sixes compared to my well-ground and tuned metal gouge. If I am able to grind and tune the wooden-handled gouge it will be the clear winner, but the very first thing I noticed about the wooden-handled one is that the blade assembly is a force-fit into the handle with a ferrule. Taking it in and out every time I want to fiddle with it just isn't going to be an option. I'll just have to wait and see, I guess. They make square jeweler's files just for sharpening this type of tool in situ, so dunno. Too many variables, I guess.

Right now if I want to make a clean, predictable cut, I'll reach for my shimmed and reground metal v-gouge. Go figure, eh?

[howie696]

Mine have the word "Sturdy adjustable gouge" on the side, they don't seem as if they can be opened all I do is wind the blade down to the limit and polish the bottom on a rouge wheel. I have two and they have no play at all :-)

[LeatherNerd]

Mine have the word "Sturdy adjustable gouge" on the side, they don't seem as if they can be opened all I do is wind the blade down to the limit and polish the bottom on a rouge wheel. I have two and they have no play at all :-)

I'm sending you my shipping address. You only need one, right...?

[huffdad]

I have the same V-gouge and the same problem. Thanks for posting your "shim" solution. I had thought about doing that, and seems it was a good idea. For thin pieces, I think I'll stick to a freehand stitch groove so I don't cut right through the piece. Thank heavens I tested it on scrap first before putting it on my work piece.