Order Process Of Belt Making. Question About Dying.

[zaynexpetty]

I completed my first belt last night. I also cut out two other belts and dyed them with fiebings oil dye (Black and Dark Brown). I have a few questions, as this is my first time doing any of this. When dying, a lot of people say not to dye the flesh side of the belt, as it may rub off over time. but what if you use gum trag on the back, over the top of the dye? Will that help with the dye not bleeding? Also, I bought edge kote (black and brown). What is the difference between the edge kote and the normal dye? If i used the edge kote, would i put it on at the same time that I dye the rest of the belt? Then afterwards, bevel and burnish? or would i bevel and burnish before dying?

The belt if completed was natural, and not dyed. I noticed that when I beveled and burnished the edges, some of the water soaked onto the surface of the belt, and darkened it slightly. should I save burnishing for after i apply whatever finish/conditioner i apply? or does it matter?

Sorry for all of the questions. Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

[Leprechaunleather]

hey there , i stumbled on your question , as i was looking for the answers to thge same questiond , sorry im no help !

[zaynexpetty]

hey there , i stumbled on your question , as i was looking for the answers to thge same questiond , sorry im no help !

That's quite alright, at least I know I'm not the only one! I noticed you have the same birthday as me, I wonder how many May 17-er's have the same questions.

[Chief31794]

I'll take a stab, keep in mind this is my way of doing things there will be others who do it differently.

1. I don't dye the inside of belts, I think they look better left natural and dying them seems to "stiffen" the belt, I like them to be supple.

2. I use water to "burnish the edges before I dye then I use Gum Tragacanth to final burnish as a last step, however this is after I have put a finish on the belt. With GT the edges will darken just a little but will dry back out and leave no discoloration.

3. I have edge coats but have never liked them. The recommended method is to put it on as a last step. As for the difference, the edge coat is designed to dry smooth and simulate burnishing to some extent. Some like them, some don't. I recommend you try them on some scrap to see if the look appeals to you, I prefer the look of a well burnished edge.

Hope that helps,

Chief

[Dwight]

Unless the customer had specified he/she wants it differently, . . . my belts are all two layer, . . . glued and sewn together to make one very stout belt on which can be carried just about any combination of gun, ammo, flashlight, cell phone, etc, . . . a non LEO would normally carry.

I cement the two pieces together, . . . sand and bevel the edges, . . . punch all the holes, . . . and give the edges an initial burnishing. If the stitches are to be white, I do not sew it, . . . I dye it first. If the stitches are to match the belt, . . . I sew it first.

I then dip dye the entire belt, . . . lay it on edge to dry for a few minutes, . . . turn it to the other edge, . . . and about a half hour later, . . . hang it from the buckle end to finish drying.

I then apply the final coat finish, . . . 50/50 Resolene, . . . let it dry, . . . do a final burnishing pass from end to end, . . . finish the assembly, . . . pack and ship.

Properly applied, . . . Resolene will not allow your dye to bleed, . . . and I have been so enamored with it, . . . I don't mess with any other product other than Bag-Kote, . . . which I seldom use.

My belts are more a simple utility belt, . . . but from 24 inches or more away, . . . they look like a dress belt.

Like Chief, . . . I'm not thrilled at all with the edge coat products, . . . my experience is they flake off and then there is a jagged edge of hard finish, . . . and it looks ugly. Gum trag sits in a bottle on a shelf, . . . I very seldom use it for anything, . . . because any place it touches, . . . cannot be dyed. It is a 100% blocker, . . . and I just will not take the chance of ruining a belt or holster I have several hours and other material costs in, . . . just so I can use Gum trag. Simple water burnishing will look every bit as good as any Gum trag job, . . . once you take the time to learn how to do it.

But as Cheif said, . . . this is just one way, . . . others do different things, . . . that's what makes life interesting.

May God bless,

Dwight

[BDAZ]

Just one tip. A lot of my projects are medium to dark brown and lined with suede. I will glue and trim the lining and then dye using an airbrush, and oil, trim to final size, then cut the groove for the thread. Since the item is trimmed the groove will be spaced perfectly on top an bottom of the item. A belt or strap is just grooved on the top.

The groove is useful as a sewing guide but is much lighter than the item. I found brown Sharpies at Staples, both fine and standard tips. I will run the fine Sharpie in the groove and then use the standard for any touch ups. I then use a heavy application of a water based finish coat which also allows me to semi wet form the item, then dry in the AZ sun.

I then do my edge which can include beveling and edge paint OR using a large black marker followed by the application of a blend of soy and bees wax and a buff with a Tandy edge stick or a burnish on the drill press.

The a bit more oil, and a final coat of a spray on leather lacquer and final drying in the sun. The oil step includes serious rubbing with sheep scrap, which removes any excess dye.

I have not used Resolene but will give that a try today.

YMMV

Bob

Edited February 18, 2014 by BDAZ

[zaynexpetty]

I'll take a stab, keep in mind this is my way of doing things there will be others who do it differently.

1. I don't dye the inside of belts, I think they look better left natural and dying them seems to "stiffen" the belt, I like them to be supple.

2. I use water to "burnish the edges before I dye then I use Gum Tragacanth to final burnish as a last step, however this is after I have put a finish on the belt. With GT the edges will darken just a little but will dry back out and leave no discoloration.

3. I have edge coats but have never liked them. The recommended method is to put it on as a last step. As for the difference, the edge coat is designed to dry smooth and simulate burnishing to some extent. Some like them, some don't. I recommend you try them on some scrap to see if the look appeals to you, I prefer the look of a well burnished edge.

Hope that helps,

Chief

It seems that a pre bernish and final burnish is a common trend, I will be sure to try this out. I hear a lot of people say that they dont dye the back of the belt ever, I tried dying the back of one of my belts and noticed it did become a lot more stiff than another belt which i only dyed the top. On the one belt that i wanted to only dye the top, some dye leaked onto the sides, would this show significantly after the final burnish? or should i then just dye the whole edge? Also, on the belt that I did dye, would putting a conditioner like obenaufs on both sides before applying a finish affect the stiffness of it at all?

Thanks for the insight. I appreiciate it!

[zaynexpetty]

Unless the customer had specified he/she wants it differently, . . . my belts are all two layer, . . . glued and sewn together to make one very stout belt on which can be carried just about any combination of gun, ammo, flashlight, cell phone, etc, . . . a non LEO would normally carry.

I cement the two pieces together, . . . sand and bevel the edges, . . . punch all the holes, . . . and give the edges an initial burnishing. If the stitches are to be white, I do not sew it, . . . I dye it first. If the stitches are to match the belt, . . . I sew it first.

I then dip dye the entire belt, . . . lay it on edge to dry for a few minutes, . . . turn it to the other edge, . . . and about a half hour later, . . . hang it from the buckle end to finish drying.

I then apply the final coat finish, . . . 50/50 Resolene, . . . let it dry, . . . do a final burnishing pass from end to end, . . . finish the assembly, . . . pack and ship.

Properly applied, . . . Resolene will not allow your dye to bleed, . . . and I have been so enamored with it, . . . I don't mess with any other product other than Bag-Kote, . . . which I seldom use.

My belts are more a simple utility belt, . . . but from 24 inches or more away, . . . they look like a dress belt.

Like Chief, . . . I'm not thrilled at all with the edge coat products, . . . my experience is they flake off and then there is a jagged edge of hard finish, . . . and it looks ugly. Gum trag sits in a bottle on a shelf, . . . I very seldom use it for anything, . . . because any place it touches, . . . cannot be dyed. It is a 100% blocker, . . . and I just will not take the chance of ruining a belt or holster I have several hours and other material costs in, . . . just so I can use Gum trag. Simple water burnishing will look every bit as good as any Gum trag job, . . . once you take the time to learn how to do it.

But as Cheif said, . . . this is just one way, . . . others do different things, . . . that's what makes life interesting.

May God bless,

Dwight

Thanks for the response! I am glad resolene was suggested to me, as it seems that it is one of the best finishes around. When you say you never use gum tragacanth, is it because you sew your double layer belts with the flesh side married? The only reason I use it is to lay down the fleshy hairs that stick up.

From what I understand, edge kote seems to kind of be an alternative to properly burnishing the edge, which sounds kind of cheap to me, I'd rather take the time to properly burnish.

Thanks for the advice!

Zayne

[Chief31794]

It seems that a pre bernish and final burnish is a common trend, I will be sure to try this out. I hear a lot of people say that they dont dye the back of the belt ever, I tried dying the back of one of my belts and noticed it did become a lot more stiff than another belt which i only dyed the top. On the one belt that i wanted to only dye the top, some dye leaked onto the sides, would this show significantly after the final burnish? or should i then just dye the whole edge? Also, on the belt that I did dye, would putting a conditioner like obenaufs on both sides before applying a finish affect the stiffness of it at all?

Thanks for the insight. I appreiciate it!

I try to keep all dye leaks off the back of the belt. I do this with Frog Brand Tape and seal it really well on the edges. Should some get by, then I consider splitting about 1/2 - 1 oz off the back of the belt to remove the dye. if it's very light then I use a safety skiver to remove the spot.

Chief