Jump to content
DavidMillsSaddlery

List Of Useable Leather Sewing Machines

Recommended Posts

How about we start a thread of KNOWN useable leather machines for guys like me who are scouring the internet looking for deals and machines!

Bob at Toledo Sewing Machine sales has been kind enough to answer way too many questions about the viablility of machines I'm finding locally, but I don't like bothering a working man!

Maker: Singer

Model: 31-15

thickness 3 layers chap leather

thread capabilities 138 or below

As an example^^^^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about we start a thread of KNOWN useable leather machines for guys like me who are scouring the internet looking for deals and machines!

Bob at Toledo Sewing Machine sales has been kind enough to answer way too many questions about the viablility of machines I'm finding locally, but I don't like bothering a working man!

Maker: Singer

Model: 31-15

thickness 3 layers chap leather

thread capabilities 138 or below

As an example^^^^

I'll start!

Make: Union Lockstitch Machine

One Model, since late 1890's

Max thickness: 6 layers 8 ounce veg-tan leather

Thread capabilities: Bonded nylon or polyester; sizes 138 through 554. Irish Linen thread: 3 cord through 10 cord, left twist.

Needle and awl system, using a barbed needle. Huge round bobbins that hold hundreds of feet of thread.

Max SPI: 4

Type: Modern walking foot flat bed (e.g. Consew, Chandler, or Juki), with large bobbin

Thickness: 3/8 inch, all day long

Needles: System 135x15, 135x16: sizes 12 through 25

Thread handling: #46 through #207. Best when used with #138, top and bottom.

Max SPI: 3 or 4

Make: Juki

Model: LU-1508NH

Capacity: 7/16 inch

Needle system: Pfaff type 190:

Needle size range: #12 through 25

Thread capacities: #46 through #207

Max SPI: ~3

Make: Singer

Model: 29k172

Max thickness: 1/4 inch to 5/16 inch

Needle type: 29x3, 29x4, 135x15, 135x16

Needle size range: #12 through #23

Thread capacities: #46 through #138

Max SPI: ~5

Singer

Make: Singer

Model: 96k40

Max thickness: approx 1/4 inch

Needle system: DBx1, DBx257

Needle size range: approx #10 through #20

Thread capacity: #69 and under

Max SPI: 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

List model numbers of the walking foot models that will do leather! or does a walking foot system automatically indicate leather? and sew thickness is very important when looking for machines! thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oops! I listed a type 135x15 by accident. It should have read 135x17, which has round point. 135x16 is a leather point of the same type.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That part that says "capacity", or "thickness" means the maximum amount of whatever you want shoved under the foot. To get that # in leather thickness, just convert: 1oz of leather=1/64th.....8oz=8/64ths"=1/8th". 3/8ths=24oz.

Saying "3 layers of chap leather" is not specific enough as the leather itself may be different weights.

The modern walking foot machines typically utilize (but not always) a UNISON feed, which is ideal for leather.

Wiz , Art, Steve, Ronnie, Bob, et al., can name more machines than you're likely able to find. Instead of exact models, I'll offer this: ANY home style machine won't do, or won't do it for long. Look for machines based on commercial/industrial sized heads.

-----OR-----

Stop trying to find an Ebay special that :

1. probably needs reconditioning/rebuilding, requiring time and money.,

2. doesn't include the table, motor, or belt,

3. may be an antique or have hard to locate parts which means rebuilding is gonna be expensive,

4. is advertised as "HEAVY DUTY", "INDUSTRIAL", or "SEWS LEATHER",

....most of these machines can handle two layers of soft garment leather at best, don't have an adequate feeding mechanism, can't handle adequate sized thread, and have bobbin capacities that won't even finish an average wallet if you DO get it to sew large thread.

----instead-----

Decide on what kind of leather you're going to be sewing, and tell one of the dealers here what you want to do and that you want a machine that will do it. Ask them to recommend a machine that will do MORE than that, as it's better to NOT push your machine to it's limits every time you use it.

Given that information, they can provide you with:

1. A machine head that has the ability to sew leather -preset to your intended uses. This will probably include presetting the tensions so you only have fine adjustments to make, and TIMING the machine head.

2. A motor with enough slow speed torque to be able to sew in a controlled manner (many AC motors only develop the required torque at full rpm). DC servo motors are great, but they aren't the only option- If you haven't, I recommend reading Wizcrafts' thread about the types of sewing machines suitable for this hobby.

3. A stand or table that will securely hold the machine without additional woodworking skills,

4. Customer support if you have problems,

5. A warranty - just in case there's a hidden crack in the casting and it was somehow missed by the mechanics....or other problems.

P.S. Bob Kovar (Toledo Industrial Sewing) does have used machines for sale. Let him know what your budget is, along with your needs, and let him check his stock.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will not spend good money on shipping something from across the country if can find it locally! I would think it's a good idea to have a good reference of USEABLE machines because not all machines are available at every dealer in the best price. Sometimes a guy gets lucky and finds a machine locally! Hell I found a large lot of cylinder arm machines 15 some odd years ago for cheap... I didn't know the first thing about what I had found, but Bob at Toledo did... So no I won't stop seaching locally, and I don't think it's fair to call a dealer and ask him about a machine evey time I see one at what might be a good price. They have a business to run, and being on the phone with me is unproductive for them! This is why I think this list is a GREAT idea!

You're right my reference to "3 layers of chap leather" was not very useful, especially for those who don't know what chap leather is...

That part that says "capacity", or "thickness" means the maximum amount of whatever you want shoved under the foot. To get that # in leather thickness, just convert: 1oz of leather=1/64th.....8oz=8/64ths"=1/8th". 3/8ths=24oz.

Saying "3 layers of chap leather" is not specific enough as the leather itself may be different weights.

The modern walking foot machines typically utilize (but not always) a UNISON feed, which is ideal for leather.

Wiz , Art, Steve, Ronnie, Bob, et al., can name more machines that you're likely to find. Instead of exact models, I'll offer this: ANY home style machine won't do, or won't do it for long. Look for machines based on commercial/industrial sized heads.

-----OR-----

Stop trying to find an Ebay special that :

1. probably needs reconditioning/rebuilding, requiring time and money.,

2. doesn't include the table, motor, or belt,

3. may be an antique or have hard to locate parts which means rebuilding is gonna be expensive,

4. is advertised as "HEAVY DUTY", "INDUSTRIAL", or "SEWS LEATHER",

....most of these machines can handle two layers of soft garment leather at best, don't have an adequate feeding mechanism, can't handle adequate sized thread, and have bobbin capacities that won't even finish an average wallet if you DO get it to sew large thread.

----instead-----

Decide on what kind of leather you're going to be sewing, and tell one of the dealers here what you want to do and that you want a machine that will do it. Ask them to recommend a machine that will do MORE than that, as it's better to NOT push your machine to it's limits every time you use it.

Given that information, they can provide you with:

1. A machine head that has the ability to sew leather -preset to your intended uses. This will probably include presetting the tensions so you only have fine adjustments to make, and TIMING the machine head.

2. A motor with enough slow speed torque to be able to sew in a controlled manner (many AC motors only develop the required torque at full rpm). DC servo motors are great, but they aren't the only option- If you haven't, I recommend reading Wizcrafts' thread about the types of sewing machines suitable for this hobby.

3. A stand or table that will securely hold the machine without additional woodworking skills,

4. Customer support if you have problems,

5. A warranty - just in case there's a hidden crack in the casting and it was somehow missed by the mechanics....or other problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And just because it's listed as an industrial or commercial machine doesn't mean it will do anything in leather as I learned with my one phone call to Bob.

I found a Singer 241-12 on craigslist in my price range. This list/phone call saved me a 100 mile trip!

I will not spend good money on shipping something from across the country if can find it locally! I would think it's a good idea to have a good reference of USEABLE machines because not all machines are available at every dealer in the best price. Sometimes a guy gets lucky and finds a machine locally! Hell I found a large lot of cylinder arm machines 15 some odd years ago for cheap... I didn't know the first thing about what I had found, but Bob at Toledo did... So no I won't stop seaching locally, and I don't think it's fair to call a dealer and ask him about a machine evey time I see one at what might be a good price. They have a business to run, and being on the phone with me is unproductive for them! This is why I think this list is a GREAT idea!

You're right my reference to "3 layers of chap leather" was not very useful, especially for those who don't know what chap leather is...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

here is my next listing of a known Machine

Singer 153w-101

walking foot cylinder arm

1/2" lift

up to 346 thread in my experience. but this was years ago and I have CRS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Singer 97-10 there are other models from 1-10 just varies on mounting/base motor etc.

walking foot harness machine sews 1" of leather.

thread size as large as you can get. Needles are hard to find

I wouldn't think anything less than 207 I have't used mine with other thread yet. These machines had wax pots on them years ago. I would like to find one for mine if possible!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A average price would be helpful too...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

List model numbers of the walking foot models that will do leather! or does a walking foot system automatically indicate leather? and sew thickness is very important when looking for machines! thanks!

TT;

A walking foot machine has the correct feed system for leather, but more is needed to actually sew the stuff properly.

Let's take one machine as an example. The Consew 206RB-5

This sewing machine has triple feed. The needle, inner presser foot and feed dog all move in concert, to feed the material. While the material is in motion the outer foot is lifted up. When the feed reaches the end of its stitch length, the needle begins to ascend, the feeder drops under the surface, and the outer foot lowers to secure the material. Finally, the inside foot lifts off and moves with the needle to prepare for the next stitch. The feed dog begins to raise up just as the needle and inner foot make contact with the top of the material and so it continues.

As normally setup (for upholstery), this machine sews really fast and furious. I'm talking about 3000 stitches per minute! If you sewed a leather belt at that speed it would catch on fire! So, the first thing one must do to an upholstery class machine is to slow it waaaaaaay down. This can be done by means of changing the motor pulley to one much smaller, adding a 3:1 speed reducer pulley, or swapping out the motor for a servo motor, with a small pulley.

Next, the top tension spring that ships with the machine is light weight and best suited to tensioning up to #92 bonded nylon thread. It will tension #138, but will have trouble pulling the knots up into a thick payload. So, a leather machines seller may change that spring to give you more top tension.

A stock 206RB type is expected to sew through relatively soft loads, like denim, upholstery leather, Naugahyde, cloth seat covers, etc. To sew harder tempered leather we need to change the needles to leather point needles. Larger needles are needed to poke a hole that is large enough to pull the knots well up into the hard leather. Sometimes this dense material changes the timing, so a leather sewing machine may be timed differently than the same one used for upholstery.

Then since it takes more pressure to hold down veg-tan leather between stitches, than vinyl or upholstery leather, we sometimes swap out the coil spring over the outside presser foot for one with stronger coils.

It is interesting to note that even though your machine has been altered to sew leather efficiently, it will not lose its ability to sew light weight materials. But, you will need to reduce the top tension and use smaller needles.

There are other changes that can be made to a flatbed or cylinder arm walking foot machine, to make it more friendly to veg-tan leather, but these are the basics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you!

TT;

A walking foot machine has the correct feed system for leather, but more is needed to actually sew the stuff properly.

Let's take one machine as an example. The Consew 206RB-5

This sewing machine has triple feed. The needle, inner presser foot and feed dog all move in concert, to feed the material. While the material is in motion the outer foot is lifted up. When the feed reaches the end of its stitch length, the needle begins to ascend, the feeder drops under the surface, and the outer foot lowers to secure the material. Finally, the inside foot lifts off and moves with the needle to prepare for the next stitch. The feed dog begins to raise up just as the needle and inner foot make contact with the top of the material and so it continues.

As normally setup (for upholstery), this machine sews really fast and furious. I'm talking about 3000 stitches per minute! If you sewed a leather belt at that speed it would catch on fire! So, the first thing one must do to an upholstery class machine is to slow it waaaaaaay down. This can be done by means of changing the motor pulley to one much smaller, adding a 3:1 speed reducer pulley, or swapping out the motor for a servo motor, with a small pulley.

Next, the top tension spring that ships with the machine is light weight and best suited to tensioning up to #92 bonded nylon thread. It will tension #138, but will have trouble pulling the knots up into a thick payload. So, a leather machines seller may change that spring to give you more top tension.

A stock 206RB type is expected to sew through relatively soft loads, like denim, upholstery leather, Naugahyde, cloth seat covers, etc. To sew harder tempered leather we need to change the needles to leather point needles. Larger needles are needed to poke a hole that is large enough to pull the knots well up into the hard leather. Sometimes this dense material changes the timing, so a leather sewing machine may be timed differently than the same one used for upholstery.

Then since it takes more pressure to hold down veg-tan leather between stitches, than vinyl or upholstery leather, we sometimes swap out the coil spring over the outside presser foot for one with stronger coils.

It is interesting to note that even though your machine has been altered to sew leather efficiently, it will not lose its ability to sew light weight materials. But, you will need to reduce the top tension and use smaller needles.

There are other changes that can be made to a flatbed or cylinder arm walking foot machine, to make it more friendly to veg-tan leather, but these are the basics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The jist of what I'm saying is that while yes, there are deals to be had, most people will come out ahead by ordering a suitable machine that is already set up for their needs.

Taking the consew 206-RB that Wiz mentioned as an example, I'm looking for something on the cheap-

I just looked and found a 255 for $375 buy it now + $49 shipping. ($425 total, and yes, I rounded up by a dollar)

Industrial sewing machine table: We'll go low ball on this at $99 as there are several prices listed shipping $59 (rounded again - $585)

Motor-~$115 for an electronic DC servo +$15shipping (yes, a new motor)......(that puts us at $715)

Add to this:

Cost of mechanic to check the machine and set it up...unless you happen to be a sewing machine mechanic...or you're willing to learn. If you're learning, how much time will it take and what is the value of that time?

Let's use easy math and say the trip to the mechanic or the mechanic's trip to you cost you $75 including fuel.....$790 total before figuring YOUR time. That's just over $300 from a new machine from Bob Kovar.......I think the used machines are a bit less expensive. Dare we calculate lack of production while building the machine?

In short, yes, it's possible to find good deals on used equipment- especially at auction lots, etc. But the machines are not set up to sew leather when they come from an upholstery warehouse. The average member of this forum will be faaaaaaaaar better off buying a machine from a dealer that specializes in tuning these machines to our use(s).

From the previous posts in this thread, I gather that you don't know a lot about the various machines. There's nothing wrong with that. You are asking questions and learning and I applaud you for that. But if your goal is to get a good sewing machine so you can sew leather projects, presumably for money at some point, then I ask you to ask yourself: Are you going to save more money by looking for weeks for the right deal than you would make in the same amount of time if you had the machine up and running?

I know to ask this question because I have done what you are doing. I still don't have my electric machine, but I do have a Boss, and it's exactly what I needed for the projects I'm doing. I looked around trying to find a 'fixer upper' machine for cheap, so I could save the money............. then just borrowed the money to buy the Boss. I paid back the Boss in 2.5 months, only working on the weekends. Spending the money on a good machine was the better decision because I more than tripled my output....which more than tripled my leather related INCOME.

When I get ready to purchase an electric machine (which is getting close) I'm not going to try to find something to rebuild. I'm going to call Bob or Steve, have the machine shipped, and be making things by the end of the weekend. Please don't consider JUST the 'up front' costs, but also consider the rest of them......the total economy of the purchase.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am doing this as a hobby, as many others are... I had a full blown saddlery business 12 years ago, and yes if I was doing this in a retail location, as a means of supporting myself, and family then yes I would go the route you suggest...

I just recently bought a sewing machine for $160.00 that most want $450.00 for... it took me a week to find it, he had it listed at $275.00 saved $290.00 which some will go for rollers and dog feet and a spool holder...

I hope the next machine I stumble upon I can get cheap... I am still in the process of building work benches and tables! I haven't even started to pull out the tools from the boxes they have been in for 12 years...

I have a full time job, that pay's good enough that I can work part time!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In that case....Good hunting on the deals, and many enjoyable hours in your hobby!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...