Looking For Some Shapleigh Info

[B Milla]

Hey Guys, i was looking thru my old mans toolbox the other day and ran across an old round knive and 4 edgers (all have had their fair share of use.) I really didnt think much of it until i started cleaning them up and found the Shapleigh Diamond Edge logo on the round knife, and one of the edgers. Ive looked on the internet and here and all ive ever seen is the round knives, not the edgers. Can anyone give me some info as to the era of these tools? They were my great granfathers, he had a boot shop in Dalhart, Tx until about the 50's. Any kinda info would be cool.

Thanks! Bradley

[bruce johnson]

Bradley,

I don't know who might have made the edgers. I've had several round knives from Shapleigh and the word has been they were made by Clyde Cutlery in Clyde OH for Shapleigh. I seen no difference between the two in design or handle shape, so no reason to doubt it. Both have lightly etched logos too. Shapleigh went out of buisness in 1960 as I recall, so that will giuve some dating.

[B Milla]

Well that tells me worlds more than i knew. Ill try and find my camera cord and upload some pictures of the edgers. Theyre just a common style and worn out. How do the Shapleighs compare to the rest of the golden oldies? (Rose, Gomph, Old Osbornes, etc)

[bruce johnson]

Bradley,

Here is my anecdotal experience.

Rose knives have the hardest steel I come across. An older guy that is pretty colorful described a Rose knife as "harder than a whore's heart and will stay sharper than a mother-in-law's tongue". Pretty much sums it up. To work on a Rose, you have to be of the right mindset that day because it takes some time.

On my scale, Gomph is next in line - a little more forgiving to sharpen than a Rose but harder than an old Osborne. For me they hold an edge well. One small step below that are the older CS Osbornes - the Newark made ones for sure and the older Harrison marked ones. They are a nice combination of sharpening up fairly easily but still holding an edge for a while. I'd put the Shapleigh/Clyde knives with them. One bigger step below that are the more recent Osbornes.

I don't know 100% the reason, but it seems like I see more Shapleighs and Clydes out here than maybe they do in other parts of the country. I am not sure if one of the bigger distributors back in the heyday pushed them or what. I'll see a nice set of older Osbornes and Gomphs in a shop, and there will be a couple Clydes or Shaps there. Even some of the old yard sale sets used to have a bunch of Craftools, but a Clyde knife with them.

[Art]

Hi Bradley,

My experience with Rose knives is a little different. Some (not all, but enough) have soft areas along the blade edge. It may only be one spot, and hopefully in an unimportant place, but I have seen it at the tips. I can only attribute this to someone taking a grinder to them and overheating the edge in places. If you want a Rose, get it from someone you trust, like that Bruce Johnson guy or Bob Douglas. They can be sharpened on a wheel grinder or a belt grinder, but you need to be careful not to dwell on a spot. I make passes on the edge with the belt grinder, water now and then helps, and bare hands or fingers keep me from getting the steel too hot.

Art

Bradley,

Here is my anecdotal experience.

Rose knives have the hardest steel I come across. An older guy that is pretty colorful described a Rose knife as "harder than a whore's heart and will stay sharper than a mother-in-law's tongue". Pretty much sums it up. To work on a Rose, you have to be of the right mindset that day because it takes some time.

On my scale, Gomph is next in line - a little more forgiving to sharpen than a Rose but harder than an old Osborne. For me they hold an edge well. One small step below that are the older CS Osbornes - the Newark made ones for sure and the older Harrison marked ones. They are a nice combination of sharpening up fairly easily but still holding an edge for a while. I'd put the Shapleigh/Clyde knives with them. One bigger step below that are the more recent Osbornes.

I don't know 100% the reason, but it seems like I see more Shapleighs and Clydes out here than maybe they do in other parts of the country. I am not sure if one of the bigger distributors back in the heyday pushed them or what. I'll see a nice set of older Osbornes and Gomphs in a shop, and there will be a couple Clydes or Shaps there. Even some of the old yard sale sets used to have a bunch of Craftools, but a Clyde knife with them.

[bruce johnson]

Art,

You are dead on with your assessment of the Rose knives and I think the reasons for the soft spots on some. I use a belt for some work and keep a finger on the opposite side of the contact area when I am on a belt or wheel to monitor heat. I have gone back to mostly using wet-dry on the Gomph and Rose knives for one reason. It is a heck of a lot cheaper to buy sheets of wet-dry than belts, especially the finer grits that aren't sold at every hardware store. Roses will eat the grit right down to the nub on belts in short order. Keep using that belt and all you make is heat. The only time I use a belt much is a slack belt for the final edge. I have used diamond stones and like them for a lot of things, but laying a full sheet of wet-dry on an inspection plate gives me bigger strokes and more surface area and gets the job done faster and more evenly.

[Art]

Hi Bruce,

I have a lot of belt grinders, and hence a lot of belts, but for sharpening, I use the good ole 6x48 now that I can get cubic oxide belts for it. I do sharpening work with the belt traveling away from me, the effect is the same with greater belt life, and a lot easier to do on a head knife with the 6x48 laying down, slack belt is always the top of the Bader or Burr-King.

Art

Art,

You are dead on with your assessment of the Rose knives and I think the reasons for the soft spots on some. I use a belt for some work and keep a finger on the opposite side of the contact area when I am on a belt or wheel to monitor heat. I have gone back to mostly using wet-dry on the Gomph and Rose knives for one reason. It is a heck of a lot cheaper to buy sheets of wet-dry than belts, especially the finer grits that aren't sold at every hardware store. Roses will eat the grit right down to the nub on belts in short order. Keep using that belt and all you make is heat. The only time I use a belt much is a slack belt for the final edge. I have used diamond stones and like them for a lot of things, but laying a full sheet of wet-dry on an inspection plate gives me bigger strokes and more surface area and gets the job done faster and more evenly.

[hidepounder]

Bradley,

I don't have near the experience using round knives that Bruce or Art do but my assessment is almost identical to theirs. I am absolutely convinced the Rose's have the best steel and mine are tapered a little thinner than the rest and required less shoulder removal. I've been lucky because I haven't run into a Rose with soft spots (knock on wood!).

I too would Rate Gomph as the next best knife. I have a medium size one that I use for every day cutting and I love it. While I absolutely agree that the Old Osbornes, both CS and HF are excellent knives also, number three in my line up is a Buchmann, however it is not an old brand. This goes against everything I believe in because it is a stainless steel knife and I swore I would never have another stainless knife, however this one is very thin and stays really sharp and is a pleasure to use. For me the old Osbornes rate right behind it, but to be perfectly honest, I should probably attribute this prejudice to never having had very good Osbornes for comparison, because I doubt many would agree with me on the Buchmann.

I think the bottom line on all of these older knives is that they have far better steel than what we see in today's knives. I don't know if this is due to the availability of the steel or because the older knives were hand forged or forged differently (which I suspect is a large part of it). But steel quality is the big issue in contemporary knives. Bob Dozier is getting pretty close they say and there are some other custom makers out there but I have no experience with them nor have I heard any gossip.

I ruined the best Gomph I have ever had on a stationary belt sander in spite of frequent quenching with water, and all my efforts to preserve the temper. So I'm convinced it requires more knowledge and skill than I have to sharpen these old knives mechanically and as a result I now will only sharpen them knives by hand. I purchased some large (and expensive) diamond stones, with very coarse to very fine grits and then I finish like Bruce does with very fine wet & dry sheets on a plate. Like Bruce said, you have to be prepared to be there a while.

Take care....

Bobby

[B Milla]

I must say i do appreciate this wealth of knowledge! I got to looking through the rest of the tools last night and am equally stumped by them. The first is a small edger (i believe) and another tool (unknown) marker USMC. Theres also a set of punches marked (if memory serves me right) W.M. Johnson. Ill post pictures tomorrow.