Frustration With Black Dye Rub-Out Needed

[Tallbald]

I began leather crafting using vinegaroon for black coloring several years ago. The extra neutralization step of a baking soda slurry wasn't an issue for me until family started saying some of my projects still smelled like a pickle. Anyway, I too have transitioned to solvent based dyes, specifically black, brown and mahogany. Great dyes that give me nice even results using the dip-dye method.Except for a few traditional projects I don't want to return to 'roon full time.

I conditioner treat my projects after dying, and before rubbing out, to help pigments sink deeper into the leather. Then I rub the projects out. Mahogany? Fine --a bit of terry cloth scrubbing. Same with brown. But get to black, and it's a very time consuming task that has to be repeated to remove any trace of ruboff. Is there a technique I can change to to reduce rub time or is it the nature of the black color?

Thanks. Don.

[NVLeatherWorx]

First, what products are you using to dye your projects? Second, did I read it correctly that you condition BEFORE you do any buffing/rub-off of residual pigments? Third, are there any other steps you take in your process?

For example, I give my project a full treatment of the color that I want (I use Fiebing's Oil Dyes and Antique Pastes) and then allow them to set for 24 hours. Once they have set I give the entire project a full rub to remove any excess pigments or other materials. I then apply my conditioner (Pure Neatsfoot Oil, no compounds) and allow it set again for a full 24 hours. If the leather needs another oil treatment then I do it again and follow the same process as before. Once the oil has set I give everything another full rub to pick up an stragglers of pigment that may have arrived after the conditioning party and to make sure that the surface is free of any other unwanted stuff. I then apply my sealer/top-coat (which varies based on the project and desired appearance) and allow it to set up for 24 hours. If it needs another treatment of that then I give it to it and again following the same process as before.

I have found that the Fiebing's Black Oil Dye can sometimes rub-off if it has been applied too heavily as it is heavy with pigment compounds. Dip dyeing would definitely be one of those areas that could be considered too much for that specific dye. I do not dip dye because of how much extra pigmentation overall is infused into the leather and I find that the process hides the natural look of exposed edges that the majority of clients prefer to see. I have even been told by some that if they wanted to have a piece leather was all one color throughout the entire thickness, they would have asked for a chrome-tanned material instead. There are times when the customer can be right, and this is one I agree with.

The main thing to always consider here is consistency in every process you take on a project; drying/set time is a perfect example of that and you can only gain consistent results by staying consistent with the process.

Good luck and I hope some of this can help.

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

I agree with NV with respect to Dip Dying black. With black, if you can't find a process of dying without it rubbing off, going back to "roon" is not the worst thing. Remember, Roon does not dye the leather, it changes the chemical composition of the tannins and does not rub off. Depending on what I am doing, I us it now and then. Especially on belts.

Bob

[Dwight]

I use Feibings pro oil dye, . . . and I first cut it 50/50 with their thinner.

It has cut my "rub off" time to about 25% of what it used to be before I made the cut.

I did that quite by accident, . . . long story, . . . but it works, . . . that is the main point.

I also do not do any "pre" or "post" treating with the dye / rub process. It goes dye - dry - rub, . . . nothing else until I am happy that the color is where I want it and no more excess dye is coming off.

I also dip dye everything, . . . no exceptions. About 5 full seconds in the dye, . . . out, . . . hang or lay, . . . and dry for no less than 12 hours before I mess with it again.

May God bless,

Dwight

Edited October 25, 2015 by Dwight

[Tallbald]

I too use Fiebing's black oil dye. I cut it 50/50 with denatured alcohol, dip several seconds one or more times (to get the depth of color I want) and let dry overnight indoors. The conditioner over dry, dyed leather helps the pigments I believe carry farther into the leather. Actually after the Lexol is put on over the un-rubbed dyed leather it takes less (but still a lot) of rubbing. I'm dip dying too Dwight. Fast and even coating on my belts and straps. Belts get hung to air dry fully, and holster pieces lay flat on birch plywood indoors.

The concern I have with 'roon is first the concern of damaging finely blued gun metal, despite a baking soda neutralization wash. Second, the vinegar smell dissipates over time, but remains longer than I like. I still love 'roon for personal items but it does not suit my needs making custom items larger than keychains. Just my needs please understand. Don.

[steelhawk]

The concern I have with 'roon is first the concern of damaging finely blued gun metal, despite a baking soda neutralization wash. Second, the vinegar smell dissipates over time, but remains longer than I like. I still love 'roon for personal items but it does not suit my needs making custom items larger than keychains. Just my needs please understand. Don.

Does a vinegaroon treated holster actually damage the finish on a gun? I thought that once it was neutralized all was well.

[NVLeatherWorx]

It can still have an effect on the finish due to the extreme acidity that has been added to the leather and there are still very fine steel wool fibers that are left behind regardless of how well you mix your ingredients. These are some of the reasons that this treatment was abandoned by a wide majority of makers.

[paprhangr]

[Tallbald]

For an item that will not come in contact with blued steel, I'll use 'roon . thanks , DOn