Leather Holster Forming (Vacuum Versus Press)

[JP1]

I was looking for input on tools for forming leather holsters. I want to either use a vacuum press or some kind of hydraulic press to achieve a very nice form fitting holster. I wanted to know if anyone had any experience with these and what their pros and cons are? Would one be better for me to use than the other?

I have seen some plans on this forum for a 12 ton harbor freight press, and seen some negative and positive comments in regards to this item.

I have also been looking at vacuum press plans from veneeringsupplies.com and joewoodworker.com.

If one uses a vacuum press and has already tooled a design on the leather does it have any effect on that work after vacuuming?

Thanks for any comments that are given.

[builderofstuff]

I've tried vacuum forming but didn't have a lot of success. That being said I think it was because of the actual way I was going about it, not the process itself so much. So I would think it would be possible, I just haven't gotten around to trying it again.

Chris

[TwinOaks]

The downside to vacuum molding is wrinkles. Sometimes one gets in there and puts a line in the wrong place. As far as tooling, any time you flex a tooled area, it affects it.

[Denster]

I've used vacuum almost exclusively for the past couple of years. In my opinion, with the proper setup, it is better than using a press. I do have and use both. Vacuum has the big advantage of being able to bone the detail right through the bag. Just don't go the cheap route with a vynal bag the slightly more expensive poly bag is best. As to wrinkles just clamp your bag to your work surface with spring clamps and you will have no wrinkle problem.

Do a search for vacuum here and you will come up with a rather lengthy post showing pictures of the outfit I use. Most of which came from veneersupply as I recall.

[JP1]

I've used vacuum almost exclusively for the past couple of years. In my opinion, with the proper setup, it is better than using a press. I do have and use both. Vacuum has the big advantage of being able to bone the detail right through the bag. Just don't go the cheap route with a vynal bag the slightly more expensive poly bag is best. As to wrinkles just clamp your bag to your work surface with spring clamps and you will have no wrinkle problem.

Do a search for vacuum here and you will come up with a rather lengthy post showing pictures of the outfit I use. Most of which came from veneersupply as I recall.

Thanks for the input, for those that do press what kind of press are you using.

[particle]

I followed Denster's advise and built a vacuum setup like his. I've been very happy with it. I've made quite a few tooled holsters with no affect on the tooling - at least none that I've noticed. The advantages I see to a vacuum press:

1. It can be disassembled and placed in a drawer when not in use
2. It sucks some of the moisture out of the leather to expedite the forming process - you can dampen the leather more initially to help make it easier to mold, then leave it in the vacuum for a little while longer to help suck some moisture out and then remove it from the press and do your detail molding on the bench ('cutting' in the lines, enhancing the edges, etc.)
3. You get vacuum from all directions - not just up/down (two sides of the weapon), which helps to pull the top of the holster against the top of the slide
4. There is no worry about putting excess pressure on a firearm and risking any damage to the gun from the pressure of a hydraulic press
5. I don't know how long you have to leave the holster in a hydraulic press, but with a vacuum you can pretty much devote about 30 seconds for each side to bone the holster to the firearm. So, in about 2 minutes, you're ready to take it to the bench for final detail boning and adding the curve to the holster, etc.

If you go the route of a vacuum press, I would suggest you build yourself a little table top specifically for use with the vacuum press. This will elevate your work surface above your bench so you can clamp down both ends of the bag. This table top should be slightly shorter than the vacuum bag. If a bag is 2' x 4', your table should be about 2' x 3'-4". Your table top should have a "skirt" on it (look at your kitchen table - the top is supported by a skirt, or box frame that's inset from the edge of the table a couple/few inches. This allows you to place the bag clamps on both ends of the bag, then you put your clamps over the bag clamps and secure it to the ends of the table. If you try clamping directly to the vacuum bag, it won't stay put because the bag is too slippery and your clamps will slip off and the bag will wrinkle up under vacuum. When you're done, you can hang the table top on the wall, or slide it against the wall, etc. to get it out of the way. If you decide to go this route and want more information on the table top work surface idea, let me know and I'll try to post a picture to this thread.

Here is a couple holsters I've tooled and formed using the vacuum press that Denster suggested.

[K-Man]

I use Weaver's bench top press. Takes up 8" x 22" on one of my workbenches - hardly any space at all. With a couple of mods/upgrades, it will double as a 12-ton clicker. With space at a premium (for most of us), it's the ideal set up in my opinion. I'm not aware of any advantage of being able to bone the detail through a vinyl bag. To me it seems a lot of extra effort to set up/take down a vacuum system like what Particle describes. I try and keep things as simple and functional as I can. The set up that I use does that for me. YMMV.

I spend approximately 5 minutes with each holster with respect to pressing it and boning/chasing the lines on it. I've never had a problem/issue with it on holsters that have tooling on them. Here's a couple of pics of basic holsters.

Edited November 30, 2010 by K-Man

[particle]

Certainly can't argue with an 8 x 22 footprint! I didn't realize it was that small. I should note that with a vacuum press, you are only boning the rough details of the gun - the holster comes out of the bag looking like a gun made from a melted stick of butter. It is still necessary to go back and bone the final detail after you remove it from the bag - the vacuum just helps you manipulate the leather to the basic contours and shape of the gun. The vacuum alone will not pull ANY notable detail through 8/9 oz leather. K-Man, how long do you have to leave your holster in the press? Does the 5 minutes include the time in the press?

Edited November 30, 2010 by particle

[Denster]

The advantage I find to boning the details through the bag is that it takes far less pressure and the details are held in place and I don't have to go back over them. I find I get better results than I do with the press and boning at the bench. Setup and teardown is only a matter of a minute or two. Probably mostly boils down to personal preference as you certainly can't fault K-Man's results in any way and he does make a point that a press can do double duty as a clicker and I find mine useful working with kydex..

[K-Man]

K-Man, how long do you have to leave your holster in the press? Does the 5 minutes include the time in the press?

Yes, the 5 minutes does include the time in the press. The holster spends 3 1/2 minutes being pressed, and I spend less than 2 minutes boning/chasing the lines.

[Shooter McGavin]

I use Weaver's bench top press. Takes up 8" x 22" on one of my workbenches - hardly any space at all. With a couple of mods/upgrades, it will double as a 12-ton clicker. With space at a premium (for most of us), it's the ideal set up in my opinion. I'm not aware of any advantage of being able to bone the detail through a vinyl bag. To me it seems a lot of extra effort to set up/take down a vacuum system like what Particle describes. I try and keep things as simple and functional as I can. The set up that I use does that for me. YMMV.

I spend approximately 5 minutes with each holster with respect to pressing it and boning/chasing the lines on it. I've never had a problem/issue with it on holsters that have tooling on them. Here's a couple of pics of basic holsters.

Beautiful work right there. What are you sandwiching the holster in to get it to take shape? I was thinking of using a couple 2" think pieces of semi-soft rubber?

[K-Man]

Thanks. I use 1" gum rubber on top/bottom and crank it down.

[Rick Pen]

K-Man, how much presser do you crack it down? I'm in process of getting a Hyd press finished, and say I use it to form a glock could I put to much preasure on it?

Thanks

RwP

Thanks. I use 1" gum rubber on top/bottom and crank it down.

[K-Man]

K-Man, how much presser do you crack it down? I'm in process of getting a Hyd press finished, and say I use it to form a glock could I put to much preasure on it?

Thanks

RwP

I crank down on it until it is good and tight. There is what I would describe as a good deal of resistance. I've done it this way with both dummy guns and genuine guns. I've had no ill effects on the guns themselves.

[Zonker]

IWhere do you get the gum rubber from? How is it sold?

[Denster]

IWhere do you get the gum rubber from? How is it sold?

McMaster's Carr carries it 1"X12"X12" 40 durometer gum rubber.

[plinkercases]

I use a wine press screw set from Lee Valley and 3/4 wooden plates and 1 inch 40 duro rubber top and or top and bottom. takes up 12x12 on the bench and less stored if the plates are out and on their side.

[OLDNSLOW]

want to add a few more thoughts to this thread, vacuum forming is not a new concept, just new to forming kydex and leather or so it seems. But for the kydex and leather guys that are jumping on the bandwagon it is somewhat new, and what the are using in their quest for perfection is the use of robin air type vacuum pumps. Well most if not all vacuum pumps work on the same concept, to remove air and moisture from around the item being formed. In the true use of the pumps in the A/C world they way the work is to draw out all the air and moisture in a closed loop system, what the pump does is boil of the moisture till there is none less along with any ambient air, as the air and moisture cannot exist in a closed loop system with refrigerant and cannot be condensed, so the longer you leave the holster in a vacuum press the more moisture it is going to remove along with increase the pressure on the holster. So the longer you leave it in the vacuum the drier the holster will be when it comes out and the more detail that it should impart on the holster. I learned this from working with a A/C systems many years ago.

I once left a vehicle on a vacuum pump overnight to ensure that all the moisture was boiled out of the system before recharging, well it was difficult to then get it to take the charge with refrigerant, but from what I have notice is that everyone is being to quick to remove the holster from the vacuum chamber be it a bag system or a table that are being built at home or bought from many people that are now building them. I am in the process of building my own as well, however having been in the right place at the right time I scored a vacuum pump and a very high vacuum rating, the higher the cfm of the pump the more vacuum it will pull in a shorter period of time, creating more pressure on the item in the vacuum chamber. The pump I scored has a rating of 14 cfm, the person I bought it from had bought it from an estate sale and wasn't sure of what they had, although I will need to do some work on the pump it wont take much to have it working like I want. Other pumps like it are selling for any where from 1400, to over 2000. so it isn't so much the bag or the table that you decide to work with it comes down to the pump, and the longer you leave it in vacuum the better the definition will be and the drier the leather will be when you remove it from the chamber.

If anyone has any questions please contact me I am willing to share the info about vacuum forming from a mechanical point of view.

Thanks