Having A Huge Amount Of Trouble Researching What I Need!

[carguy]

Hi,

I've been searching a variety forums for the past week or two and have had a ton of trouble trying to figure out what I need. I'm looking to buy some machinery to run a small leather studio out of my house. I currently run a successful autoparts operation and am not looking to do anything high volume, I'm more or less looking to efficiently create prototypes to outsource. I have a considerable number of outsource contacts already.

Being a business owner I recognize that investing in good machinery can make all the difference in the world. In straight stitch there seems to be a clear preference for the Juki 1541. However in surge\overlock\hem & zig zag there doesn't seem to be as easy of a winner, if any at all.

What I'm trying to do is mainly work on automotive interiors & leather fashion apperel. I need to be able to quickly and efficiently generate designs. But part of my problem is that I need to be able to sew a variety of different stitch patterns, for visual variety. This poses problems on the thicker materials. I am not willing to purchase machines that will frequently break down under use of heavy materials or will not easily handle heavy materials.

Looking for machines with

1. Heavy material support
   
2. Compound walking foot
   
3. Aftermarket feet available for leather feet w/ welt\piping
   
4. Overlock support
   
5. Slow enough motor
   

This has been hard to find in the serger\overlock\hem and zig zag department. Also it appears there is clearly a much much smaller number of sewing varieties in patterns with the industrial machines. This poses a problem to me since stitch arangements I think provide a very important element of distinction in the designs.

So my question is this. Along the same lines of the Juki 1541, what machines offer the greatest variety of stitch patterns that can sew with leather and work with the proper feet & knives?

My apologies for asking such a detailed question but I've had an enourmously tough time trying to find the solution. I see some extremely cheap home machines with nearly infinite stitch patterns and am baffled at how I don't see anything like this in the industrial machines.

I'm wondering if I need to instead of looking at an industrial machine consider a high end home machine that supports heavy material use?

[Wizcrafts]

You should know that industrial sewing machines are typically single purposed. The 1541 is a good upholstery machine, but the 1508NH is a step up, able to sew 7/16 inch, using system 190 Pfaff needles. The 441 is the basis for most of the machines used by members of this forum for heavy work, up to 7/8 inch.

As for sergers (overlock), I recommend a 4 thread, two needle machine, with a servo motor. Juki makes a few models, as does Consew. Some sergers offer more than one pattern.

Pfaff makes a decent zig-zag industrial machine that should drop into the same hole in the table as the Juki.

You also should look into pattern tacker machines. Some of the newer models can stitch any pattern you program in, within the constraints of the holding frame. They were borne of bar tackers and X tackers. Some mattress factories use programmable tackers to do decorative stitching, one section at a time.

[carguy]

You should know that industrial sewing machines are typically single purposed. The 1541 is a good upholstery machine, but the 1508NH is a step up, able to sew 7/16 inch, using system 190 Pfaff needles. The 441 is the basis for most of the machines used by members of this forum for heavy work, up to 7/8 inch.

As for sergers (overlock), I recommend a 4 thread, two needle machine, with a servo motor. Juki makes a few models, as does Consew. Some sergers offer more than one pattern.

Pfaff makes a decent zig-zag industrial machine that should drop into the same hole in the table as the Juki.

You also should look into pattern tacker machines. Some of the newer models can stitch any pattern you program in, within the constraints of the holding frame. They were borne of bar tackers and X tackers. Some mattress factories use programmable tackers to do decorative stitching, one section at a time.

I really appreciate the direct recommendation for the 1508NH, that's what I'm looking for.

Can you make a direct recommendation for these material type needs?

Automotive upholstery (leather & vinyl), double layer belts & wallets? I won't be sewing anything heavier than that. No saddles or holsters etc.

I'm interested in the ability to provide decrotive flair to what I'm sewing. It's been tough for me to research anything outside the garment overlock\serge & upholstery machine recommendations since leather zig zag & pattern machines seam to be sooooo niche. There just aren't enough people to easily discern which a good machine is to buy.

Any help is much appreciated!

[gottaknow]

Rather than try and answer each of your questions, I'm hoping to simply shed some light on the difference between hobby machines and industrial machines based on their design and application and as a result you'll find why you're having difficulty. If I bounce around a bit, forgive me, it's my style. I've also got 33 years in textile manufacturing as a mechanic, industrial engineer (setting piece rates using time and motion studies and figuring the best methods and sequence of construction) and factory manager. I'm currently the head mechanic for a private and government contractor. I have extensive experience on all classes of machinery. I guess I'll just begin and with luck you'll find some useful information. If not, my typing can always use work...heh

The main reason you can't find an industrial machine that will do multiple functions is because they simply don't exist. Sure, you'll find home machines with changeable functions, but that's not how things are put together in factories. We use specific machines designed to do one thing very well 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week as fast as possible. One of the products we are making is a basic 5 pocket denim jean. It goes through about 30 different seperate operations. We are actually using the Juki 1541 for several different operations (I have about 40 or so of those). In addition we use the following:

Pegasus 600 series coverstitch

AC pocket press

Singer 261 2 needle chainstitch

Union Special 35800 off the arm 2 needle chainstitch

Consew 327 RB 2 needle lockstitch

Brother 800 series 2 needle lockstitch

Union Special 56400Z coverstitch

Union Special 39500 4 thread overlock

Union Special 39800 5 thread overlock

Union Special 63900 Cylinger jeans hemmer

Singer 300W 2 needle chainstitch flatbed

Singer 300W 2 needle chainstitch cylinder waistband machine

Juki 980 heavy bartack

Juki 984 heavy bartack

Singer 269W bartack

GMS jeans rivet machine

Reece 101 keyhole buttonhole machine

Stimpson air driven button setter

I probably missed a few. That's just to produce one style. All total, we have about 400 machines. Now that's not to say we can't do some different things with the same machine. For example. I can take my Consew 327 and change the gauge set down to 3/16" up to I think 1 1/4". For making tactical gear which uses a lot of sewn on 3/4" Velcro, I use a 327 with a 5/8" gauge set to sew down both edges at once. Twice as efficient than using a single needle machine. We then secure the ends using a bartack machine set to 3/4". I can change the gauge set which includes the presser foot, throat plate, feed dawgs thread guides and needle holder, re-time both hooks in about 45 minutes. It's not efficent to do this multiple times a day, so I have 10 of those machines set to various gauge sizes so I do minimum changing.

Another good example is the Union Special 39500 4 thread overlock machine. These are in my opinion the finest serger ever produced. They are however not very friendly if you're not a mechanic or have one available. They will sew a single ply of tricot using a size 10 needle up to 3/8" woven fabric with a size 22 needle. However, every 3-4 needle sizes the lower looper guards will both have to be reset for best results. They are differential feed which means there are a front set of feed dawgs and a rear set. The rear set move farther than the front for each stitch formation. They stretch the material being sewn in order to produce a perfectly flat seam.

We get the most versatility out of each machine we have. However, you'll never get a chain stitch machine to be a lockstitch machine or a serger to be a buttonhole machine. Everything is task specific. The closest thing you'll find is a newer Brother zig-zag that will do multiple stitches. It's computerized with all the bells and whistles. We use it to do a 3 step zig-zag to set split deer hide to Lycra equestrian britches. I had a control board go out last week in one. $1100.

We have over the years helped many folks start businesses by doing samples using our industrial machines and all of our engineering experience. I can spot things made on home machines and "heavy" home machines a mile away. There is no substitution or short cut to making quality products. If you take a prototype and present it as a marketable product, it better be well made or it will fail. I've seen it over and over. All industrial machines need adjustment and repair. If a salesman tells you different, they are simply lying. The heavier the machine, the more task specific they get. Find a reputable dealer, who'll give you support, there are several of the sponsors here for example. Since you posted on the forum here, you'll also get a bit of seasoned advice from me. Keep your designs simple as well as your machines. Fancy stitching won't make up for a poorly constructed or engineered product. For the leather you'll find as much wisdom and experience on this site than anywhere I've seen on the web. I have the utmost respect for the leather workers here. They are a virtual gold mine of information. My .02

Regards, Eric

[Wizcrafts]

I think you will find the programmable pattern tackers appealing for automotive embellishments. They can easily sew with up to #69 bonded polyester thread, although #33 or 46 would build layers more gracefully. Some of these machines have very large pattern sewing fields. Methinks that such a machine, equipped with a #12 needle and #33 or 46 bonded polyester thread, would lay down a very nice repeatable design into 2 - 4 ounce auto upholstery leather, or heavy weight Naugahyde. The polyester thread is UV resistant, which is important for items exposed to lots of sunshine.

You can also choose one of the pre-programmed patterns to X or bar-tack Velcro onto your seat covers.

The Juki 1508NH is a high lift variation that can actually sew into 7/16 inch of material. There are many different presser feet available for the machine, including right and left zipper feet, and a wide range of sizes of piping feet.

I doubt that you will really find much use for a serger in leather or Naugahyde sewing. They are meant to stop denim or other cloth from running on cut edges. Still, an overcast might look interesting if you space out the stitches. Most industrial sergers will handle #69 bonded thread and #16 or 18 needles.

[Wizcrafts]

One thing I neglected to mention is that industrial walking foot machines and tackers are usually equipped with either a clutch or servo motor, rated at the equivalent of between 1/2 and 3/4 horsepower. In contrast, the most powerful domestic sewing machine motor I have seen is rated at just about 1/8 to 1/10 HP (@150 Watts). This is woefully underpowered if you want to sew large upholstery panels together.

I am telling you about these machines and their capabilities, rather than describing domestic machines, because you seem to want to go into a commercial venture. This calls for commercial machines that won't bog down or snap plastic components under a heavy load.

You would do well to go visit a place where people sew leather, or even denim clothes. You will see little old ladies in babushkas, sewing on walking foot machines that go tapokita, tapokita all day long.

[carguy]

gottaknow : Thanks man! That is a huge amount of useful information. I very much understand that quality is of upmost importance which is why I'm looking at machines like the Juki. There are PLENTY of threads full of people trying to figure out all sorts of clever ways to use home machines which really ignore the fact that they're not designed to work with leather, which is why I'm here. The fact you guys use 40 machines for a single item is mind boggling!

Wiz : The reason I mention industrial machines is it seams that by going with a home machine you run into issues right away. First you have terrible feed mechanisms, then you have to get aftermarket feet, and then they're underpowered and needles end up breaking. So at the end of the day, you're churning out garbage, with even the best materials and attempt at craftsmanship. I have no illusions or desire of running a commercial enterprise out of this. I have an extensive outsourcing background and recognize unfortunately that such a thing is something that is sent to a third world country for mass production if the designs take hold. So my purpose in looking at industrial machines is simply efficient and high quality production. I have a full time business which commands my attention, so when I'm "doodling" I can't be worrying about all the short falls in a home machine.

So for a straight stitch a Juki 1508NH gets the job done.

• Do you have a specific recommendation for zig zag w/ a compound walking foot for my application needs?
  
• The overcast is pretty cool looking. Would an industrial juki or similar work with wallet depth leather? What about auto upholsery? And do they make any with a walking foot?
  
• Is the only appreciable difference from the 1508 to the 1541 the height (ability to work with stacked upholstery... as in leather, foam & vinyle at once)
  

Thanks again from both of you. Hugely informative answers that you are offering out of the kindness of your hearts and passion of your business.

Edited May 6, 2013 by carguy

[CowboyBob]

Juki has serger w/a topfeed aka (walking foot) on it this machine is used a lot for thicker materials.

There is also a walking foot zig-zag machine too.