Anyone Have Experience With Juki 1508 Nh

[Roy2k]

Hello, I just purchased a new juki 1508 nh which is supposed to be an upgrade to my juki 563 (not so sure but it is heavier) Anyhow, this machine has 2 upper tension adjustments but It doesn't seem to work as well as my juki 563 and using the same thickness leather, I am looking at upgrading to a cobra class 4 very soon but in the meantime I need to get this thing working good. The problem I am having is that the knots are on the bottom so I adjust both of my upper tension adjustments to the right to tighten the upper tension. It is so tight that I cannot pull the thread by hand. If I sew straight lines it sews perfect but around corners it has breaks in the thread underneath can anyone comment? I am using thread 207 and the needle is 190R 160/23 any and all suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

Thanks in advance, Roy

Edit : I am sewing 2 pieces of latigo 10 oz each together which is normal with my juki 563.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Roy2k

[dirtclod]

First i would check and make sure it's threaded right and that the needle is in right maybe even put a new needle in. If ever thing is right Then I would try backing the top tension all the way off and tighten the bobbin tension a little. Then adjust the top tension.

[Roy2k]

1347843001[/url]' post='264634']

First i would check and make sure it's threaded right and that the needle is in right maybe even put a new needle in. If ever thing is right Then I would try backing the top tension all the way off and tighten the bobbin tension a little. Then adjust the top tension.

Thanks for the advice but I couldn't tighten the bobbin the screw was too tight and my screwdriver may have not been thin enough to get there. But I did back off the upper tension to try thinner items and somehow I managed to break 5 needles This is brand new and already a major headache. Oh I did retread the machine and triple checked my routing and it was correct. Thanks for your reply.

[dirtclod]

I'm not a sewing machine mechanic by any means just tinker with machines when they get out of whack. It takes a small thin bladed screwdriver for the bobbin screw. I don't have a Juki like yours but i do have a two small machines one of them i don't have hardly and tension on top and the other has more but not much.

I did a Google search for machine tension and came up with this it might help. https://www.google.com/search?q=sewing+machine+tension&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Maybe somebody that knows more than me can help ya out.

[Wizcrafts]

Back off your bobbin tension until it has a light but smooth pull. Back off the top disk tensions to get the knots right. Try using a #24 leather point needle.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

By the book, if you will, Juki LU-1508N/1508NH can take either or needle system 190 or 135X17 (DPX17).

The problem with the 190 system needle is that it's very long, and will cause more deflection as it tries to penetrate the material. If you choose to change over to the 135X17 needle, you will have to adjust the needle bar height.

As for the upper tension, I've always found it comical, in a sewing machine guy kind of way, how Juki would 'feature' a dual tension mechanism. If it were so effective and important, how come they don't put a dual tension mechanism onto their LU-1510 or LU-1560 machines? Only reason they have this on their single needle is so they can keep on consistent tension assembly across the board for their LU-1500 series machines. Other than that, I see no benefit, unless you are using a heck of a lot of tension, and can spread out the tension pressure so your not 'crushing' or distorting the thread as it passes through the mechanism.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Gregg From Keystone Sewing

[Roy2k]

Back off your bobbin tension until it has a light but smooth pull. Back off the top disk tensions to get the knots right. Try using a #24 leather point needle.

Thanks for the reply, it was very helpful!

By the book, if you will, Juki LU-1508N/1508NH can take either or needle system 190 or 135X17 (DPX17).

The problem with the 190 system needle is that it's very long, and will cause more deflection as it tries to penetrate the material. If you choose to change over to the 135X17 needle, you will have to adjust the needle bar height.

As for the upper tension, I've always found it comical, in a sewing machine guy kind of way, how Juki would 'feature' a dual tension mechanism. If it were so effective and important, how come they don't put a dual tension mechanism onto their LU-1510 or LU-1560 machines? Only reason they have this on their single needle is so they can keep on consistent tension assembly across the board for their LU-1500 series machines. Other than that, I see no benefit, unless you are using a heck of a lot of tension, and can spread out the tension pressure so your not 'crushing' or distorting the thread as it passes through the mechanism.

I am having a lot of trouble with the needle deflecting, I do use very tight upper tension, I called my local tech and he moved the hook a little further away so that my needles quit breaking. Everything seems to run smooth now but I just noticed a new problem, on the upward stroke the needle lifts the leather with it. I am using standard sharp point needles because I don't have leather needles for this machine. Do you think that I should set this up to accept the needles for my 563 or is there an adjustment somewhere that will keep the leather from coming up with the needle? Thanks and again I do appreciate all replys.

[CowboyBob]

Tighten your foot pressure alittle.Needle length won't affect this lifting of the material,it do to #1not enough foot pressure #2 trying to sew to thick or hard of material.

Leather needle might help alittle.

[Wizcrafts]

You should be using leather point needles. Increase the inside (if exists) and outside foot spring pressures until the lifting of leather is curtailed.

[Roy2k]

Thanks a lot, I will order some leather needles. I wish there was a local source for buying needles and other sewing machine parts.

You should be using leather point needles. Increase the inside (if exists) and outside foot spring pressures until the lifting of leather is curtailed.

I hope this exists on my machine, I will try this for sure.

Oh by the way I am sewing through heavy leather with super tight upper tension and the bobbin tension has been backed off.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Roy2k

[Roy2k]

Another question, My apologies but I cannot find the correct needle to order I am using organ needles mtx190 190r 160/23 I am not sure what to google search for, I tried leather needles 190r , etc... With poor results maybe someone can simplify this. Also if there are any vendors here that can give me advice I would be happy to place an order as I believe in supporting someone that is helping me vs. some random company.

Also does anyone know if my 1508NH will support a size 24 needle? I just need something to pound through this thick leather with consistency. Thanks again, Roy

[Wizcrafts]

Another question, My apologies but I cannot find the correct needle to order I am using organ needles mtx190 190r 160/23 I am not sure what to google search for, I tried leather needles 190r , etc... With poor results maybe someone can simplify this. Also if there are any vendors here that can give me advice I would be happy to place an order as I believe in supporting someone that is helping me vs. some random company.

Also does anyone know if my 1508NH will support a size 24 needle? I just need something to pound through this thick leather with consistency. Thanks again, Roy

I have converted my National walking foot machine to use system 190 needles. I have leather point (190 LR) needles in sizes 16 through 25. I even got a pack of #150 needles from Bob Kovar, which are perfect for #138 thread, top and bottom.

Bob Kovar stocks most system 190 needles. They are made for certain Pfaff models.

Using an undersize needle increases the thread tension requirements. One you install a #24 leather point needle the knots will rise on their own and you may be able to back off the top tension.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Wizcrafts

[Roy2k]

I have converted my National walking foot machine to use system 190 needles. I have leather point (190 LR) needles in sizes 16 through 25. I even got a pack of #150 needles from Bob Kovar, which are perfect for #138 thread, top and bottom.

Bob Kovar stocks most system 190 needles. They are made for certain Pfaff models.

Using an undersize needle increases the thread tension requirements. One you install a #24 leather point needle the knots will rise on their own and you may be able to back off the top tension.

Thanks Wiz, you have been very helpful! I wish I could send you a brownie over this thing called the Internet. Now I will have to contactBob Kovar. Also Wil a #24 leather needle work with my 207/ T-210 thread I use bonded nylon. Thanks again!

[Wizcrafts]

Thanks Wiz, you have been very helpful! I wish I could send you a brownie over this thing called the Internet. Now I will have to contactBob Kovar. Also Wil a #24 leather needle work with my 207/ T-210 thread I use bonded nylon. Thanks again!

Yes, a #24 needle is a good match for #207 bonded thread, especially black, springy thread. You might be able to use a #23 Schmetz or Pfaff needle, as long as it is a leather point needle.

[Roy2k]

Yes, a #24 needle is a good match for #207 bonded thread, especially black, springy thread. You might be able to use a #23 Schmetz or Pfaff needle, as long as it is a leather point needle.

I just took your advice and talked to Bob (super nice guy) I ordered a few different types of needles and will be ordering parts from him to get my 563 back in good shape! Thanks to everyone who replied.

Roy

[Primosand]

Hi Roy,

I'm reading this old thread because I'm considering buying a used Juki LU-563 w/reverse or a used LU-1508 N or NH to sew lightweight to medium leather. Now that you've had both of these machines for a while can you tell me which one do you like the best and why?

I need to take into consideration that the used 563 with reverse is running $750 to $1200 and used 1508 N are $1650 to $2100. (Juki 1508 NH = $2000 plus)

I'd love to hear from you and other members on the price range I'm running into. It seems high for the LU 563 and I don't yet have a good feel for the 1508. On the LU 1508 they make a (N = Heavy Duty) and a (NH = Extra Heavy Duty) for another $400 give or take. Do a need an NH or will an "N" get the job done?

Can anyone out there educate me on what I should expect to pay for either of these two machines?

I'm also looking for a used 12" or 16" cylinder arm machine stitcher to do very heavy leather work (7/8" pressure foot lift). I'm hoping to buy both a medium duty and heavy duty machine for no more than $3000 combined. Is this realistic?

I'd also appreciate the forum dealers that sell used machines to weigh in on fair prices for these two types of machines one to sew light/medium duty leather and another cylinder bed to sew heavy/extra heavy duty leather and if I'm being realistic hoping to buy both for $3000 or less. I'm in LA (90254) so shipping is a factor if I buy out of town/state

Thanks in advance for anyone putting in their two cents.

Also a THANKS in general to all forum contributors ....... this forum is a gold mine of great information and know how. I really appreciate all the help

jeff

[Wizcrafts]

Jeff;

The Juki LU-1508N uses the standard system 135x16 (leather) needles and can sew about 3/8 of an inch of compressed material with #138 thread. The LU-1508NH uses a longer Pfaff needle system: 190. These needles are about 3/16 inch longer than standard walking foot needles. Since the shuttle hook is still in the same vertical plane, the needle bar is raised up the 3/16" to keep the needle's eye in time. This also allows the presser feet to raise and alternate higher before they contact the bottom of the needle bar. The difference is that the class NH can sew between 7/16 and 1/2 inch of material. Also, changes to the shuttle allow it to carry #207 thread in the bobbin as well as on top. The list price is somewhere in the mid 3k range.

As for heavy duty cylinder arm walking foot machines, I use the Cowboy CB4500, which has a 16 1/2 inch arm, uses up to #415 bonded thread and sews up to 7/8 inch of leather. It comes on a pedestal table with a powerful servo motor and a 3:1 speed reducer. It can sew extremely slowly (well under 1 per second), up to maybe 5 stitches per second, flat out.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Wizcrafts

[Primosand]

Once again Wiz thanks for the help. Your details on the 1508N vs 1508NH are exactly what I needed to know. I want to be able to sew through 1/2" of garment leather and webbing/webbing with foam and not just be able to fit that much material under the pressure foot. I also want the option of using up to #207 thread.

This tells me that the Juki LU 563 (a gorgeous older and more affordable machine) just doesn't quite fit my needs.

Are there any alternatives (clones) to the rather expensive (new and or used) Juki 1508 NH? This more affordable alternative to the NH that I’m hoping to find would have to be dependable and reliable.

So that leaves the need for a heavy duty/extra heavy duty cylinder bed machine (138 thread and up). I'm convinced that the cowboy 4500 (out of state) or the Cobra class 4 (here in LA) is the right machine but I'll need to find a used machine or find more money to buy new.

Anyone ready to let go of their Cowboy 4500 or Cobra 4 let me know.

Thanks

jeff

[Wizcrafts]

I owned a Juki LU-563 and it was only good up to 3/8 inch. It fought me when I tried running #207 thread in it. The LU-1508NH is much more modern and better for higher lift work.

I should warn you that those system 190 needles are very easy to bend and break if they get deflected. I found it best to use larger sizes, like 20 through 24, rather than #16 through #19. Of course, if deflection isn't happening, the thinner needles will work fine with #69 and #92 thread.

As for clones, I believe that Toledo Industrial now has a 1508 clone. You'll have to ask them which sub-class it clones. I can tell you from experience that the crank shaft opening on the back of the head needs to be altered to allow for higher foot lift with those longer needles. I modified a walking foot machine I had to do that and had to file away quite a bit of metal. Without that alteration, the cranks hit the head and stopped cold. I would ask for a demonstration of a machine sewing at 1/2 inch with system 190 needles before buying it sight unseen.

Truth be told, I think that 7/16" is more realistic for both the 1508NH and its clones.

If you want to sew with #207 thread, at 1/2 inch, there are better machines that are built with this in mind. My CB4500 sews from about 6 ounces up to 7/8 inch, using thread sizes 92 through 415. I find that #207 is the sweet spot for medium thickness work and webbing. There is even a flat table attachment I got with the machine for times when a table surface is better than a free arm.

The Cobra Class 4 is a similar machine and in the same State. If it is too much money, the Cowboy CB3200 sews up to 1/2 inch and is built for heavy thread. The CB3500 sews all the way up to 7/8 inch, as does the Cobra Class 3. All these are less expensive that the longer arm big brothers.

You should consider the 441 class from the get-go if you intend to use #207 thread at 1/2 inch. Yes, a 1508NH can sew that high, with that thread, but you will be at its upper limit.

[garranaga]

On 9/19/2012 at 1:09 PM, Gregg From Keystone Sewing said:

By the book, if you will, Juki LU-1508N/1508NH can take either or needle system 190 or 135X17 (DPX17).

The problem with the 190 system needle is that it's very long, and will cause more deflection as it tries to penetrate the material. If you choose to change over to the 135X17 needle, you will have to adjust the needle bar height.

As for the upper tension, I've always found it comical, in a sewing machine guy kind of way, how Juki would 'feature' a dual tension mechanism. If it were so effective and important, how come they don't put a dual tension mechanism onto their LU-1510 or LU-1560 machines? Only reason they have this on their single needle is so they can keep on consistent tension assembly across the board for their LU-1500 series machines. Other than that, I see no benefit, unless you are using a heck of a lot of tension, and can spread out the tension pressure so your not 'crushing' or distorting the thread as it passes through the mechanism.

How do you adjust the needle bar height.  Thank you for the post. 

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

See attached, section 7 Needle-to-hook timing.

LU-1500N Engineers Manual.pdf

[MG513]

On 1/16/2016 at 1:25 AM, Wizcrafts said:

Jeff;

The Juki LU-1508N uses the standard system 135x16 (leather) needles and can sew about 3/8 of an inch of compressed material with #138 thread. The LU-1508NH uses a longer Pfaff needle system: 190. These needles are about 3/16 inch longer than standard walking foot needles. Since the shuttle hook is still in the same vertical plane, the needle bar is raised up the 3/16" to keep the needle's eye in time. This also allows the presser feet to raise and alternate higher before they contact the bottom of the needle bar. The difference is that the class NH can sew between 7/16 and 1/2 inch of material. Also, changes to the shuttle allow it to carry #207 thread in the bobbin as well as on top. The list price is somewhere in the mid 3k range.

As for heavy duty cylinder arm walking foot machines, I use the Cowboy CB4500, which has a 16 1/2 inch arm, uses up to #415 bonded thread and sews up to 7/8 inch of leather. It comes on a pedestal table with a powerful servo motor and a 3:1 speed reducer. It can sew extremely slowly (well under 1 per second), up to maybe 5 stitches per second, flat out.

This was super helpful. I’m considering this machine for bag/wallet/belt making. I want and Adler but that just too pricey at the moment, the Juki looks like it too could get the job done. Thx! 

[brmax]

I think it would be good in 1508 NH discussion ( along with many 190 sys. others ), to ask others what leather point can be used that best can hide, a need using a bigger needle. 

Im first saying this because I like 190 system. In respect lets assume or I'm saying I aint changin. So with help I think this can be a grest question, and could be called splitting hairs totally!

I would like to key in on a point Wizcraft put in his post; (  This also allows the presser feet to raise and alternate higher before they contact the bottom of the needle bar. ) well said!

Can I also use, This: I think this height benefit is also a running start, or a wind up so to speak.  

Anyway, That contacting the needle bar is a noticeable event in really hard to repeat sewing scenarios. Like while simultaneously turning material, twisting to raise it and possibly using the knee bumper with extra thick paddings etc. etc. 

To my knowledge and usage this 190 system is optional to use on both the 1508 and 1541 series if desired. But as a known the longer anything in the same diameter the more flex it may have. 

Hence my question/backstory, bigger diameter needle but better thread hiding cutting tip. 

 

Have a good day

Floyd