Vintage Pack Saddle Back Enginneered In Pic + 12

[DEADEYE]

I have been searching for a pack saddle that is period correct and correct bucks for a donner pack saddle to clone and market for quite awhile.

Finally found one and now I just have to disassemble it and fabricate the wood parts in my shop.

I plan on making 12 of these for myself along with a dozen or two furniture grade lacing horeses and to barter with.

I just got off the phone with a forum sponsor (which all always use as they help pay the bills here) "Siegels Of Cali" and inquired about skirting leather for the leather straps on the rigging. I'm thinking 10-12 oz but leaning toward 12-14 oz just for strength sake.

Any constructive input would be much appreciated.

Deadeye

P.S. I am going to strip off the nasty green paint off, re-sand it, restore the leather and set it in my western rooms for display as one of the bucks has been cracked and reenforced with a mending plate as pictured. I suppose I could just replace it.

Here is a pic someone sent me of some rigging. Looks some what OK as far as quality goes. I would have used latigo for the back side of the breaching though. The strap that runs across the bars that connects to the upper front quarter strap and the back strap is suppose to be one piece. Looks to be way to much strain on the bucks.The Saw Buck leaves alot to be desired as far as quality goes also.

These two pics show a correctly rigged pack saddle.

More pics and updates to follow.

Edited March 3, 2010 by DEADEYE

[cowgirlrae]

Before you strip off the green paint it may be worthwhile to so some research. Its possible this is old forest service and the paint would have been original to the manufacture, removing the paint would destroy any historical value.

I have seen old forest service mule sawbucks and they were green.

Just an idea

[DEADEYE]

Before you strip off the green paint it may be worthwhile to so some research. Its possible this is old forest service and the paint would have been original to the manufacture, removing the paint would destroy any historical value.

I have seen old forest service mule sawbucks and they were green.

Just an idea

Copy that CGR and thanks for the reply. Looks to me it was done after the fact as the leather on the rigging straps is spray painted green also. lol

[mulefool]

Hi Deadeye, I made the last pack saddle you have pictured on the roan horse. Glad you used it as an example of a properly rigged sawbuck. I would like to suggest that you consider using harness leather instead of skirting for your rigging. The harness leather is hot stuffed with waxes and oils to make it more resistant to sweat and moisture. As far as the weight of the leather just be sure it is not too thick to slide smoothly through the conway buckles or you'll drive yourself crazy. Also two quarter straps on each side will help keep your britchen properly adjusted. but if you need something period accurate, I'm not sure what that would be for the era you are interested in. Chris Tornow

[DEADEYE]

Hi Deadeye, I made the last pack saddle you have pictured on the roan horse. Glad you used it as an example of a properly rigged sawbuck. I would like to suggest that you consider using harness leather instead of skirting for your rigging. The harness leather is hot stuffed with waxes and oils to make it more resistant to sweat and moisture. As far as the weight of the leather just be sure it is not too thick to slide smoothly through the conway buckles or you'll drive yourself crazy. Also two quarter straps on each side will help keep your britchen properly adjusted. but if you need something period accurate, I'm not sure what that would be for the era you are interested in. Chris Tornow

I did at that Chris. I got the harness leather from Wickett and Craig.

[DEADEYE]

Chris, if I may ask what size rings do you uses on the strap next to the bars? 3 inch?http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad54/LEVERACTIONSHOOTERS/LEATHER%20WORK/WC66.jpg' rel="external nofollow">

Here's the huge pics of the leather.

.

.

.

Edited April 5, 2010 by DEADEYE

[mulefool]

Glad to hear you went with harness leather. I use a 2 1/2" ring for my rigging rings on double rigged sawbucks. I use 3" on single rigged Deckers. Chris Tornow

[itchaguide]

I guide up here in the mountains of British Columbia and typically spend about 3 months packing camps, gear and meat every day. my last season I kept a GPS in my saddle bag to log my miles and ended up with 1000 kilometers (600 miles) over the course of the season... I don't meant to say anybody else has a wrong method but in my experience the britchen should be snapped to the rear cinch ring not the front one, this prevents the rear from becoming loose or ending up bunched against the front one on long hard downhill trails.

I have also managed to cause sores (even with a good pad) by tying the latigo to the upper ring and a old time Idaho mule packer I guided a few years back taught me to tie the knot on the cinch ring, this reduced the bulk under the pack and I have never had a animal sore up high since.

now for my fabrication content of the post... do you have a suggestion for treating skirting leather to help protect it against sweat etc.. I have a horn bag I made and treated it with pure NF, the bottom of it sits against my horses neck and where the sweat gets to the leather it has turned completely black..

BTW; That is a really nice rig, I built my first one by trial and error without a pattern years ago and it works but I am sorry to say it is not nearly as nice to look at..

Cheers

Rod

Hi Deadeye, I made the last pack saddle you have pictured on the roan horse. Glad you used it as an example of a properly rigged sawbuck. I would like to suggest that you consider using harness leather instead of skirting for your rigging. The harness leather is hot stuffed with waxes and oils to make it more resistant to sweat and moisture. As far as the weight of the leather just be sure it is not too thick to slide smoothly through the conway buckles or you'll drive yourself crazy. Also two quarter straps on each side will help keep your britchen properly adjusted. but if you need something period accurate, I'm not sure what that would be for the era you are interested in. Chris Tornow

[mulefool]

Hey, Rod, your suggestions are certainly valid and based on alot of miles. I do know that it is possible to get a sore from that knot although many people put it up on the rigging ring without a problem. I have mostly used Deckers and the knot rides just below the board on the half breed so it's not a problem, but I do know guys who like the knot on the cinch ring anyway just because it's easier to get to. Anyway definitely something to think about. On which ring to hook the quarter strap into, I can see an argument either way depending on whats working for you. Some folks like it on the front to help keep it out of the elbows. The cinches in the photo of my pack saddle are actually joined together in the middle rather than two separate cinches, although sometimes its better to have them separate and further apart, particularly on some mules.

I really like the Montana Pitch blend dressing for moisture proofing leather. It's a combination of pine pitch, beeswax and mink oil. Especially good on things like hobbles that can really be exposed to alot of moisture.

BTW I've read all those Rich Hobson and Paul St Pierre books about your area and really developed a desire to see that country you're in. Chris

[mulepackin]

I offered this up over in the how to do it section, but since this is a thread on pack saddles I'll offer it here as well. I have a set of specifications from the USFS for the decker pack saddle. Glad to send them on to anyone who would like it. Just to add another bit to the knot issue. I tie a quick release cinch knot on the latigo at the rigging ring. If we are in a wreck, one jerk and the latigo is loose. We've never had on come loose inadvertanly. Obviously, packing is like many things. We all have our own way, based on ours or someone elses experiences. They all work and get the job done. It's one of the facets of packing I enjoy. I do have a friend who I pack with regularly that does just about everything different from the rest of us, from the way he rigs his sling ropes, to the way he puts up (or I should say doesn't put up) his saddles, to the (excessive) length of his lead ropes. I swear it's just to be contrary. Thats when it's a problem, as the rest of us pretty much are all on the same page. I've gotten to where I won't help him out if his mules step over a lead or get tangled in them. I am close to cutting them shorter. I would and just resplice them, but he has to be different there to. Uses the kernmantle type rope instead of the 3 twist poly that I use, no splices, AARGH.

[itchaguide]

I agree that many people tie on the rigging without a problem I just wanted to put it out there, lots of people have never seen it.. Oh and I also use a quick release knot on the latigos when I tie to the cinch ring.. I have never had one come loose on it's own and they are quick to loosen when you have a wreck..

I use the double cinches on my own outfits, two separate cinches offer more adjustments but I am lazy and the doubles are easier and I have never had one rub the elbows unlike doubles if not adjusted properly.

I guide in the exact area where Hobson and Panhandle Phillips ran cattle and I have spent time in the cabin they built on Itcha lake.. unbelievable country with some serious moose and Caribou as a added bonus, I love the area and it has given me a real appreciation for what those two Wyoming cowboys went through..

Thanks for the tip on Montana Pitch dressing I am going to give it a try.

Rod

Hey, Rod, your suggestions are certainly valid and based on alot of miles. I do know that it is possible to get a sore from that knot although many people put it up on the rigging ring without a problem. I have mostly used Deckers and the knot rides just below the board on the half breed so it's not a problem, but I do know guys who like the knot on the cinch ring anyway just because it's easier to get to. Anyway definitely something to think about. On which ring to hook the quarter strap into, I can see an argument either way depending on whats working for you. Some folks like it on the front to help keep it out of the elbows. The cinches in the photo of my pack saddle are actually joined together in the middle rather than two separate cinches, although sometimes its better to have them separate and further apart, particularly on some mules.

I really like the Montana Pitch blend dressing for moisture proofing leather. It's a combination of pine pitch, beeswax and mink oil. Especially good on things like hobbles that can really be exposed to alot of moisture.

BTW I've read all those Rich Hobson and Paul St Pierre books about your area and really developed a desire to see that country you're in. Chris

[dkimberley]

I offered this up over in the how to do it section, but since this is a thread on pack saddles I'll offer it here as well. I have a set of specifications from the USFS for the decker pack saddle. Glad to send them on to anyone who would like it. Just to add another bit to the knot issue. I tie a quick release cinch knot on the latigo at the rigging ring. If we are in a wreck, one jerk and the latigo is loose. We've never had on come loose inadvertanly. Obviously, packing is like many things. We all have our own way, based on ours or someone elses experiences. They all work and get the job done. It's one of the facets of packing I enjoy. I do have a friend who I pack with regularly that does just about everything different from the rest of us, from the way he rigs his sling ropes, to the way he puts up (or I should say doesn't put up) his saddles, to the (excessive) length of his lead ropes. I swear it's just to be contrary. Thats when it's a problem, as the rest of us pretty much are all on the same page. I've gotten to where I won't help him out if his mules step over a lead or get tangled in them. I am close to cutting them shorter. I would and just resplice them, but he has to be different there to. Uses the kernmantle type rope instead of the 3 twist poly that I use, no splices, AARGH.

Would be most interested in getting a copy of the USFS specs for the Decker. Please let me know if I can reimburse you for copy costs and shipping. If so, how much and how would you like me to get payment to you. Many thanks, Dick Kimberley - Rawhide and Iron - dick@kimberleysofsantafe.com

[Bat Masterson]

I have been an outfitter for 35 years, Before that I packed horses/mules for my dad for 20 years. I also do frequent guest lecturing on packing for the USFS and some of the colleges in the pacific northwest. A pack saddle can be your worst nightmare if improperly rigged and your best friend if it is right. I use Decker saddles exclusively and make and sell 25-30 deckers a year. I have never been a fan of sawbucks but have on occassion used them. The sawbuck on the roan is rigged correctly. The other needs a quarter strap from the breast collar to the top of the rigging ring. I would also add and agree with some of the other posts use, top quality harness leather, not skirting or tooling. The harness leather will be serviceable for a much longer period of time without weekly oiling. Another suggestion I would offer is always use a half breed. Many of the other parts of packing are very individualized anfdwhen it comes to packing, use of sling ropes, manties vs. alforkus bags, use what you are the most comfortable with and what works for you. If you are packing for guests on outfitted trip the two things they always remember is the food and the wrecks, happy trails. Bat

[DEADEYE]

BTT for any new info. I still can't find 2 inch pine