Singer 111W156 Tension Tension!

[flobbest]

OK...I give. Not really but I could use a little help. I have read posts on this forum for many many hours, and I am truly grateful to all the generous contributions from many savvy individuals. I have somehow been able to get things figured out without having to start a new post but I'm afraid I'm at the point now where I just can't figure this one, so here it is, my first post.

Just to give you an idea of my experience level... about a year ago, when I bought the machine, the man was showing me how to thread it, and to my amazement, he showed me the bobbin!! That blew my mind. I had no idea there were two threads on a sewing machine. You see, that was the first time I'd been withing 10 feet of one.

So you're wondering....if I didn't know anything about sewing machines, how did I wind up buying a Singer 111W156.....this board, that's how (thanks Wizcrafts)!!

Anyhow....I wanted to make a boat cover, which I have, (among other things) but I've always struggled with the thread tension. I'm the kind of person, like many on this board, that likes to do things themselves. I find that it's usually the only way you get anything right. So....I had quite a learning curve with this here Singer. We have spent some serious bonding time together.

As I mentioned, I've always struggled with the thread tension, I usually have to run more tension on the needle than I would like in order to achieve any semblance of a balanced stitch. I can't seem to get he bobbin tension light enough to allow for a balanced stitch. I can't loosen the bobbing tension spring screw any further without it coming right out. It only has a couple of threads engaged anyway and I have to run it 1 1/2 turns out. I know you should hardly ever have to mess with the bobbin tension but I have to. And it's not that tight. I pulls out with a little resistance. But the top thread....I have to have that cranked pretty tight, way tighter than I think it should be. But really, what do I know, I didn't even know it had a bobbin remember?

So, I know this starts (and rightfully so), especially with a rookie like myself. The first things you're going to question are obviously the basics like, is it threaded correctly, is the bobbin in properly, is it clean, is the needle in right, is it the right needle, did I change the needle, thread, etc, etc. The answer to all the above is yes...yes...yes. I have timed everything numerous times. The tension discs are good and functional. The bobbin basket is clean and burr free. The hook is sharp and smooth. There is no slop in the clutch dog and the shafts are in perfect time. I am using a sunbrella type canvas with left twist poly 90 thread and a #21 needle.

So...I think I have most of the basics right. My question is, why do I have to run my top thread so dog gone tight. I mean, in order to get a decent thread (without the bottom thread laying strait across) I need to have my upper thread tension knob cranked almost all the way down. It is extremely tight, to the point where the thread, although not braking, is starting become distorted and kinda "squirmy" if that makes any sense. Like its really stressed. BTW, I have adjusted my thread controller a million times and currently have the thread controller spring pretty much all the way CCW (down) in an effort to help pull the bottom thread up.

Maybe there's nothing wrong. Maybe that's the way it works. Doesn't seem right to me, but I know nothing about sewing. Seems like I should be able to run my upper thread tension with the knurled knob flush with the end of the shaft, or in a couple of turns, that feels right. My bobbin has some resistance, it's not free wheeling, but I can't go any looser without the screw coming out (lost one already).

Well there you have it...a self taught rookie in over his head. If you have any nuggets of wisdom, I'm receptive and grateful for anything you may throw my way.

Thanks

Frank

[silverbullet]

Try different needles , somtimes materials make the thread not feed right and the type of point on the needle helps by not making the hole to big or to tight . Even different threads will make your tension seem messed up . I'm no pro but do read and watch sewing vids. Ck some YouTube the sail rite guys show a lot of sunbrella sewing.

[flobbest]

Thanks Silverbullet,

I appreciate the input. According to Sailrite and other various sources, I have the correct needles for the material (round point sharp for canvas). I realize, that small changes can sometimes make a big difference with sewing. But I don't think my problem is some small detail in my setup. I have tinkered with this thing for a year, and have never been really satified with the tension. I just run it with the top thread way tighter than I think it should be and make it work. There's no way I could ever have my top thread too tight, where it lays on top of the fabric with the bottom thread loops showing, no way.

This type of material "Top Notch" is very dense. There's no cushion effect to it at all, like say denim. It's like sewing two planes of glass together. The thread tension has to be near perfect to create a balanced stitch. I can't get one without my upper thread tension knob cranked almost all the way down, and that's with the bobbin spring screw almost falling out. This does not seem right to me?

I can't be the only one (well maybe I can) that has run into this. I think somethings wrong but don't know what it is. I'm curious about where other folks normally run their tension knobs relative to the end of the shaft? One turn? Two turns? Cranked all the way down like me??

Thanks

Frank

[Constabulary]

In the tension assembly is a small disc with a small bar in the center. You can adjust this little bar a tinny bit but when it is adjusted too much toward the machine you have a permanent thread release and don´t get the top tension right. Just tap this little bar a tiny bit toward the operator and see if it helps.

[flobbest]

Constabulary,

Thanks for this information but I'm afraid I don't understand. I have attatched a photo of the machine showing the tension and thread controllers. Can you clarify which one of these devises you are referring to? Thanks.

Frank

[Constabulary]

when you remove the nut of the tension controller, then the tension spring follows and behind the spring is a disc with a small tab / bar in the center. (see picture)

and when this little tab is not correctly adusted - meaning when it is adjusted to far towards the machine (when disc is installed) you have a permanent thread release and when it is adusted to the other side you have no thread release when you lift the foot lever. So it is a bit of trial and error.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Constabulary

[flobbest]

Constabulary,

Thanks for the clarification. I understand perfectly what you are saying now. I am very familiar with this devise and have adjusted it in the past. My problem is not that I can't adjust the tension. I can adjust the tention just fine from very little to very tight. And tension is released when the presser foot is raised.

The problem is.....I have to run the top thread really really tight in order to balance the stitch. The knob will be cranked almost all the way down and the thread will almost be at the breaking point. I don't like to run it that tight. You can tell by the way the machine feels and sounds, that the thread is too tight. It's the only way I can get the bottom thread to pull the loops up into the fabric. If I don't have the top thread really tight, the bottom thread will be strait with the top thread loops showing. The bobbin tension spring is as loose as I dare have it without the screw falling out.

Any thoughts on this are appreciated.

Frank

[flobbest]

Just a heads up....going fishing for a few days. Will check back in Tuesday the 16th. Thanks.

Frank

[flobbest]

Well, I'm back. I appreciate the input from Silverbullet and Constabulary, but I must admit, I'm a bit dissapointed in the amount of reponses I recieved on my very first post. I know you guys are awesome and ususally are willing to bend over backwards to help a newbie, but I've been kinda feeling like chopped liver here. I think it must have been my topic of tension, that has been beat do death already. And I can imagine what most are thinking when they read "newbie with tension problem". Your thinking yada yada yada......probably not threaded right....wrong thread....wrong needle....bobbins in wrong....dirty bobbin cage......worn tension discs....bla..bla ...bla. I could go on. Same old stuff youve seen a million times, not too exiting....I get that.

Well none of that stuff was wrong here. If you read my original post, I said, nothing is wrong, and it isn't. Or maybe it is??? Either way, it's fixed now. After coming to realization that I wasn't going to get any help, I had to do what I ususally do....fix it myself.

And I'm only writing this for Silverbullet, Constabulary, and any other poor soul that may run into this. As I said numerous times in the previous posts....I could not get my bobbin tension low enough with out turning the adjustment screw almost all the way out. To the point where it can fall out, and it did. I had to take the tension spring out and tweek it to take some of the bend out and reinstall it. It works perfectly now and I can have my top thread tension at a medium setting. I don't know why or how this happened but it did. If you ever have to take those screws or spring out, make sure you magnetize your swrewdriver first, or buy plenty of screws.

Thanks

Frank.....out

[silverbullet]

Frank ck you pm we try but were not there to ck everything plus we wouldn't even no to ck the spring itself . Silverbullet

[Constabulary]

Well, you put your question in the wrong thread you should have posted this at Leather Sewing Machines. You never know who is reading or following a certain thread. I usually do not look at leather conversation I just have found your thread because I was looking for one of my old posts about my 111G156. So you cannot blame members not to reply to your question. And sometimes a problem is so simple that no one is even thinking of it.

Anyway - glad you solved it - good luck with the machine.

[flobbest]

Constabulary,

I appologize if I've offended anyone, certainly was not my intention. I've been reading this forum for a year and have observed a great deal of unselfish generousity by many (yourself included) to help others. And you are right about the "wrong forum" that I started the thread in. I guess I don't think of my machine as a "leather sewing machine". I haven't sewn any leather yet but I intend to.

Thanks, and Merry Christmas

Frank

[JimmieJoe]

I had the same experience with my 111W155. My top tension had to be so tight that it hurt my finger to pull slack out of the top thread to allow the removal work from the machine.  In my case the problem went away after following a few of UWE videos, combined with removing all of the tension on the presser foot, the vibrating foot, the bobbin and the top tension assemble, along with not using the thread oiling assembly.  During the UWE videos I found that I had a bent thread release guide. After taking everything apart correcting the thread release guide, and also founding the I had burrs in my thread guides, which I also files out so that the thread was no longer fraying, the top tension issue corrected itself. I did all of this about the same time so it is not really clear what actually fixed the issue, but I am sure the bent part and the burs on the thread guide had a lot to do with my issue. I was fraying thread and breaking thread and hurting my fingers prior to doing the in depth investigation and repair.