Hardware For Tack Set

[cmantz]

I am going to attempt my first tack set. I have nothing as far as hardware is concerned. So, going through the Weaver catalog making up a list of stuff I need to order. I have buckles, d-rings, and my center ring picked out for the breast collar.

Now...what do I need as far as rivets? I am assuming these are pretty standard. What is the difference between the "Jiffy" rivet and the "tubular" rivet? Do I want a double cap rivet? What is the best choice if I have to set these rivets by hand? I am getting a spot/rivet setter but for now I will just do these by hand. What sizes should I have in stock?

What about chicago screws? Or would rivets be better? What size hole punch would I need to pre-punch these holes?

And lastly snaps...oh my, so many different choices? which swivel snaps do I want?

Thanks in advance..

Chris

[Chief31794]

Most tack I've seen is done with Copper Rivets and Burrs. They are the strongest available

Chief

[dirtclod]

Why do you want rivets in your tack ?

[cmantz]

All the sets I have seen have rivets where the buckles are attached (tug straps on breastcollar, throat strap on headstall, cheeks on headstall) How else would you secure the buckles?

[dirtclod]

Sew them on or that's the way i have always done it. You just bought a machine didn't you ?The stitching will hold more than the rivets espically the double cap ones and look a lot better to. When i see rivets in most things i think cheap imports.

[cmantz]

It never occurred to me to sew these. All of the tack I have seen, or at last all of the tack that I have looked at recently, had rivets...and this includes high end tack (or at least high end to me at $500 a set). Here are some pictures

So, you would recommend sewing these? They seem pretty narrow to me to be able to get enough stitches in there to hold them well. Also, not sure how to logistically get the machine in some of the areas...especially in the first image with the keeper.

I will ask when I call to order hardware what is the most popular size.

Thanks....at least I know to stay away from double sided rivets

[Josh Ashman]

Chris,

I mostly use #9 and #12 copper rivets and burrs, I also do some sewing and sometimes I'll use double cap rivets and chicago screws. It all depends on the application. Double cap rivets aren't super strong so if the piece your riveting will recieve much pull it's a good idea to sew it as well or use a copper rivet. Chicago screws are OK for attacing bits to headstalls or reins to bits but they do rattle loose and having your bridle fall apart in the middle of a ride is never very fun, I'll usually use a laced tie instead of a chicago screw if it makes sense and looks right. I've attached some pictures below to maybe give you an idea or two, the best thing is to look around at tack you like that you feel works correctly then build yours in a similar fashion.

Good luck,

Josh

[cmantz]

Thanks Josh...found a Tandy video showing the copper rivets and burrs (so know I know what a burr is ) Do you set these by hand (as they show in the video)?

[Goldshot Ron]

Chris,

For setting copper rivets you'll need a ball peen hammer, a rivet setter, and a steel plate or avil to back the leather for support when setting the rivets. I also suggest sewing your tack pieces and using rivets at stress points. I've included a couple of pictures showing a 1 inch wide leather breast collar which was sewn and rivetted at the stress points. Stitching adds strength, and improves the appearance of your work.

Ron

[Josh Ashman]

Chris,

Yes, the copper rivets are set by hand with the tools Ron noted above. I use a horse shoeing hammer instead of a ball peen hammer and I also keep a nail nipper at my bench to cut off the extra length on the rivet. I haven't seen the Tandy video but I'm sure i set them the same way. One thing you can do to "dress" them up a little is round off the rivet side, I use a double cap/jiffy rivet setting tool (the one with a concave side) to do this. It fits pretty nice on a #12 and works OK on a #9, just set the burr, flip the piece over and using the concave face of the rivet setting tool smack it pretty good once or twice with with a mallet or maul. You can over-do this so a little practice isn't a bad idea.

Ron's suggestion on sewing the stress points is also very good advice.

Good luck,

Josh

[dirtclod]

It never occurred to me to sew these. All of the tack I have seen, or at last all of the tack that I have looked at recently, had rivets...and this includes high end tack (or at least high end to me at $500 a set). Here are some pictures

So, you would recommend sewing these? They seem pretty narrow to me to be able to get enough stitches in there to hold them well. Also, not sure how to logistically get the machine in some of the areas...especially in the first image with the keeper.

I will ask when I call to order hardware what is the most popular size.

Thanks....at least I know to stay away from double sided rivets

The rivets they have used in the pictures are chrome plated splash rivets in two pictures and they will rust and rot the leather out. You will need to leave the tail on the fold longer to sew it. I can double stitch a half inch wide piece no problem. You sew up to the rings to or pretty durn close. As far as somebody asking 500.00 for a set that means nothing. Some of it might be worth 500.00 but i see a lot of stuff that people put a big price on that is worth nothing. Price doesn't equal quality all the time. I know a lot of people won't agree with me but a bunch of rivets cheapen the look of your work. JMHO

[Jaclynn]

Here's my two cents worth.

Pulling from over 20 years of horse experience and talking with friends and customers, when it comes to western tack most prefer chicago screws to hold the buckles on. This allows people to change out the buckles if they want. For instance, if you win an award buckle set you want the ability to put it on your headstall. Most people know to check their screws periodically and most like me secure them by putting clear nail polish or Loctite on the screws prior to screwing them in. It woks very well. I did a small poll and and it came out to roughly 1 in 5 preferred their buckles sewn on or permanently attached. (Those that I asked were predominantly barrel racers like myself.)

For english bridles I say definitely sewn on. It looks cleaner for showing and when I competed in english (13 years or so) I never once changed out my buckles. But I have several times since I started barrel racing and roping.

I hope that helps!!

[cmantz]

Good point...I know my daughter changed out all the hardware on a headstall she had when she wanted to put her blinged out conchos and buckles on it.

[Goldshot Ron]

OK...I've been busy lately, but, your first question was in regards to rivets on breast collars versus sewing. I've only owned horses and ridden for 60 years, so I do not claim to be an expert. You first mentioned copper rivets. They are a good choice for a rivet because they don't rust. They work well on thick leather, but for headstalls and belts you would use a #14 size. This size is hard to set the burr on, and adds too much weight or bulk that is not necessarily needed. I only use copper, chrome on brass, and stainless steel splash rivets so they don't rust (cost more than chrome on steel). Chicago screws should be used on items that may need frequent change over with buckles or straps as Jaclynn mentioned. I try to avoid chicago screws on bit ends of headstalls because they do come unscrewed when least appreciated.

However, your first question was in regards to breast collars. I would not use chicago screws on a breast collar. If you are concerned about changing buckles, you might consider using a conway buckle. They are good for straps of 1 inch width and under, but can be a hastle to install and adjust. Heck, you can even buckstitch items and use no other type of fasteners (metal nor thread).

Just a few more thoughts to ponder. It's your project, be creative.