New Seat Almost Done , A Few Questions Though

[billymac814]

I just finished my seat and need to now do the dye, antique, finish..... I wasn't to happy with how the last one came out and I've read every post on here trying to get a good method but I'm unsure of the order. So how would you finish this with these products?

What I have;

denatured alcohol

neatsfoot oil

fiebings spirit dye(tan)

fiebings oil dye (saddle tan)

tan kote

feibings dark brown antique paste

IMG_0991.JPG

fiebings leather balm with atom wax.

Sno-seal.

I don't have to use everything but that's what I have. Im planning on getting an airbrush too.

The seat is made with 8-10 oz Wickett & Craig leather and the lacing is 1/4 roo w/ 1/8 holes and the applique lacing is 1/8 roo.

Edited April 26, 2010 by billymac814

[MADMAX22]

Alot of poeple will have alot of different techniques and most work for them very well.

Personally I would clean it up with some alcohol if you wish, this has helped my occasionally.

Now some people will oil before dyeing, apply coat of oil and let sit till dry then dye. I personally usually dye it first then oil it but have been experimenting with both methods.

I would use the pro oil dye as I like the pro oil dyes better then the regular version and that saddle tan is a very nice color. I like it alot for a mellow color or when antiquing.

Once you finish with that then you will need to do some kind of resist for when you antique the project, either tan kote or atom wax should work pretty good. Once a coat or two is applied then apply the antique and do that how you see fit. The sealer will act as a resist for the high spots or the overall project but allow the antique to get into the crevices and such of the carvings.

Once that is done apply your top coats of sealer with which ever you decide.

Please practice this on something other then your project though, it takes a little while to get the hang of it and would be a shame to mess up on that seat, it is very nice. I like to use the sno seal as a good sealer that you reapply every once in a while. I have done projects with just that after dying and they turned out great. I have not played with it before doing antiquing so dont know how well that would work out.

Also I do not have that much experience with seats, hopefully one of the seat gurus will chime in later today.

[billymac814]

Thanks that cleared some things up. I had a pretty good idea just wasn't sure if I cleaned before oil and oil before dye and I wasn't sure about the resist for antique. Do I put the resist over the entire project carving and all? I don't understand how it only goes in to the carving unless it has to do with either it being cut or just letting it in the crevices longer. Also if I use the leather balm w atom wax can I use sno seal after that? It seems like it would seal it up and not allow anything in but I have a feeling that's not the case. I'll definatley practice I want it to turn out good. Although I practiced last time and I thought I had it down but I was testing on small pieces and when I went to do the much larger seat it got splotchy. I wanna play around with the color too, I don't want it real dark. I'm gonna order another pan and make one for my bike similar to this but with a more detailed carving, I got a few more stamps and I think I know some of the things I was doing wrong. I also got a perma lock needle this time and it helped tremendously, I was suprised how hard I could pull on it without it pulling out, it took a while to figure out how to cut it right but much better than the hook type ones that I kept breaking. My hands are really sore today though after working all weekend lacing. I'll get better pictures when I finish it. I remember beeza(I think) telling someone on the chopper forum that it would be more expensive to make your own seat, I had no idea! I've spent a small fortune so far and I'm far from done. But I found something I like doing, hopefully I can make recoup some money. Thanks again, sorry for the long post.

Billy McCabe.

[David]

I just finished my seat and need to now do the dye, antique, finish..... I wasn't to happy with how the last one came out and I've read every post on here trying to get a good method but I'm unsure of the order. So how would you finish this with these products?

What I have;

denatured alcohol

neatsfoot oil

fiebings spirit dye(tan)

fiebings oil dye (saddle tan)

tan kote

feibings dark brown antique paste

IMG_0991.JPG

fiebings leather balm with atom wax.

Sno-seal.

I don't have to use everything but that's what I have. Im planning on getting an airbrush too.

The seat is made with 8-10 oz Wickett & Craig leather and the lacing is 1/4 roo w/ 1/8 holes and the applique lacing is 1/8 roo.

I do it a little differently from MadMax. When the seat is assembled like yours is. I apply neatsfoot oil and let it sit over night. Then I dye the seat usually with an airbrush. I use spirit dye, just because I've never used the oil based stuff. When it is dry, i wet the seat with water and apply the antique paste. final finish is leather balm with atom wax. I don't know why you would want to add sno seal too. I'd use one or the other. If you don't want the seat dark, used some color other than the dark brown antique paste. It will add color to the entire seat. When I lace, I don't use a needle... that's just how I do it.

Hope this helps

Dave

[billymac814]

David, thanks for the advice, I always like looking at your seats and tutorials, I probably couldn't have completed this without them. I really don't want the seat very dark, what color do you recommend? I thought everyone seemed to use a darker color. As for the sno-seal, I don't have to use it, I just have it, in fact if I don't need it for waterproofing it I would rather not.

How do you lace without a needle? I didn't use one for the decrorative lacing but the basketweave is really tight to even get a needle pushed through. Am I doing something wrong with the pattern? The edges of my leathers basically meet together at the edges. Should the holes actually be laying together like they would on a wallet? I hope that is clear. Id like to see a side shot of your seat when the leathers are tied together. I would entertain the idea of not using a needle if I could figure that one out. Do you use anything to push it through? That's probably enough questions. Thanks again for all your posts.

Billy McCabe.

quote name='David' date='26 April 2010 - 12:26 PM' timestamp='1272299190' post='152528']

I do it a little differently from MadMax. When the seat is assembled like yours is. I apply neatsfoot oil and let it sit over night. Then I dye the seat usually with an airbrush. I use spirit dye, just because I've never used the oil based stuff. When it is dry, i wet the seat with water and apply the antique paste. final finish is leather balm with atom wax. I don't know why you would want to add sno seal too. I'd use one or the other. If you don't want the seat dark, used some color other than the dark brown antique paste. It will add color to the entire seat. When I lace, I don't use a needle... that's just how I do it.

Hope this helps

Dave

[billymac814]

I did several test pieces using the different color dyes and different mixtures. The tan is darker than I would have expected but the saddle tan seems nice. I also got an airbrush tonight so I'll be practicing with that as well. I didn't experience the dark brown antique making everything very dark though. In fact it didn't do much of anything except darken the cuts on my scrap pieces. I used 1 coat of tan kote first and let it dry. I'm going to do some more testing with or without that although I don't want it dark so it's not really a bad thing.

Also can I mix both the oil and spirit dye with alcohol to thin it? I don't remember how I ended up with two different kinds.

Thanks again.

[Eikvar]

I did several test pieces using the different color dyes and different mixtures. The tan is darker than I would have expected but the saddle tan seems nice. I also got an airbrush tonight so I'll be practicing with that as well. I didn't experience the dark brown antique making everything very dark though. In fact it didn't do much of anything except darken the cuts on my scrap pieces. I used 1 coat of tan kote first and let it dry. I'm going to do some more testing with or without that although I don't want it dark so it's not really a bad thing.

Also can I mix both the oil and spirit dye with alcohol to thin it? I don't remember how I ended up with two different kinds.

Thanks again.

I got a tip about darkening leather from a saddle shop.

Just add a little paraffin to the oil you use (neatsfoot oil or similar). It will darken the leather. The more parrafin, the darker leather.

I tried with 3 parts oil and 1 part paraffin, and it gave the leather a nice tan without darkening it to a brownish color.

[David]

David, thanks for the advice, I always like looking at your seats and tutorials, I probably couldn't have completed this without them. I really don't want the seat very dark, what color do you recommend? I thought everyone seemed to use a darker color. As for the sno-seal, I don't have to use it, I just have it, in fact if I don't need it for waterproofing it I would rather not.

How do you lace without a needle? I didn't use one for the decrorative lacing but the basketweave is really tight to even get a needle pushed through. Am I doing something wrong with the pattern? The edges of my leathers basically meet together at the edges. Should the holes actually be laying together like they would on a wallet? I hope that is clear. Id like to see a side shot of your seat when the leathers are tied together. I would entertain the idea of not using a needle if I could figure that one out. Do you use anything to push it through? That's probably enough questions. Thanks again for all your posts.

Billy,

Let's see what I can answer here. For antique paste I prefer Fiebings Sheridan. How do I lace without a needle. I cut the lace to a point, open the hole with a scratch-all (ice pick but round off the point!! they can hurt ya) then just put the lace through. Don't get too aggressive with the ice pick, you can tear the leather........Don't ask me how I know that!. The corresponding holes should be on top of one another (or darn close). I don't have a side view of a seat when it is just tied together....I take one on the next seat.

Hope some of these meanderings help ya.

Dave

[billymac814]

David, thanks again. I did some scraps with the antique and couldn't get the effect I was looking for so I didn't use it. I finished it all up this evening with the leather balm and I'm pretty happy with it. I do still need to practice but overall not bad. I'm getting ready to start another and make a new pattern, I'm not sure how you do it without a needle, it seems like it would be to tight. I found a picture in one of the threads where you had the top and bottome tied together and it pretty much looked like mine did ( I should say mine looked like yours did) so maybe if I used something to open the holes up it might work. Sometimes I had to use pliars to pull the needle through because it was so tight.

One quick question if you don't mind. Is your padding bigger than your pan or about the same size? Okay two questions. Do you use some type of trim on the pan to prevent it from cutting the leather? I have but I'm wondering if it was needed or not on this type of seat.

Thanks again.

I'll post pics of the finished product after I take some.

[David]

David, thanks again. I did some scraps with the antique and couldn't get the effect I was looking for so I didn't use it. I finished it all up this evening with the leather balm and I'm pretty happy with it. I do still need to practice but overall not bad. I'm getting ready to start another and make a new pattern, I'm not sure how you do it without a needle, it seems like it would be to tight. I found a picture in one of the threads where you had the top and bottome tied together and it pretty much looked like mine did ( I should say mine looked like yours did) so maybe if I used something to open the holes up it might work. Sometimes I had to use pliars to pull the needle through because it was so tight.

One quick question if you don't mind. Is your padding bigger than your pan or about the same size? Okay two questions. Do you use some type of trim on the pan to prevent it from cutting the leather? I have but I'm wondering if it was needed or not on this type of seat.

Thanks again.

I'll post pics of the finished product after I take some.

I cut the padding flush with the edge of the pan and then put about a 1/4" bevel on the padding just so the leather wraps around the edge a bit better. No trim on the edge of my pans.

Hope that helps.... post some pics.... let's see what you've made.

Dave

[billymac814]

Ok, Here's the completed seat. Critiques are certainly welcome. I dyed it with fiebings dye and used an airbrush to fade it from a mixture of medium brown to saddle tan. Finish is leather balm w/atom wax. Is that good? I read that it's not really a water resistant finish but have read others that use it. I rubbed it in pretty good while applying it and buffed it when dry.

I had trouble with getting pictures to look like the seat does and my battery died before I got the back. I'll try with a light tent when I get home.

[billymac814]

Here's some more with the back, these ones show the color more accurately than the others. There's a few mistakes in it that are quite obvious.

Edited May 3, 2010 by billymac814

[MADMAX22]

Looks great man, turned out very clean. Great choice of colors as well.

Leather finishes are all in your own preference. I like leather balm with atom wax for alot of my projects. I however usually go over that with some sno seal or lately with some neatsfoot oil/ bees wax/ parafin wax blend I made. It depends alot on where you are at also and what kind of abuse its gonna get. I live in NW Washington where my poor bike seat gets rained on probably 40 percent of the time I ride so I am usually giving it as much protection as I can.

I have scene some of Davids seats that were treated with atom wax and even though they were used and abused by there owners they still looked great.

Edited May 4, 2010 by MADMAX22

[billymac814]

I get rained on a bunch too, I'm guessing trial and error is the best method when it comes to finishes. I really like the finished look of the leather balm but got skeptical when I read it wasn't water proof. I used the sno seal on everything else I've made so far and I feel it does a really good job at protecting it. I've been thinking of trying some of that Aussie conditioner as well. I guess I could use that after the atom wax? I dunno if it'll do much as far as waterproofing though. Anyway I guess I'll figure out something that I like and works. I'm pretty happy with the color as well although it wasn't much a choice as it was a guess. The airbrush was great though, I'm glad I got it. It was the nicest one harbor freight had and it was still really really cheap, but it worked good for what I needed it to do.

I started another one and this one I think will be for my bike!

[MADMAX22]

One word of advice for your airbrush. I have heard as I have not had one in a while but the cheaper ones like harbor freight use rubber (or maybe its plastic) orings and such vs teflon I think it is and they will corrode after a while using dyes in them so if it starts sucking air or leaking try and find adequate replacement teflon washers and it should be like new again.

Edited May 4, 2010 by MADMAX22