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Johanna

Tips For Your 441 Sewing Machines (Courtesy Of Cobra Steve)

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MAINTENANCE AND TIPS FOR THE COBRA CLASS 3, 4, & KING COBRA,

PRO 2000, ARTISAN TORO 3000, 3200,4000, Cowboy 3500, 4500,

TECHSEW 5100, SEW PRO 44L, KINGMAX, MASTER LOCK, JUKI 441. AND

OTHER 441 STYLE MACHINES

Thread

1) Make sure that the thread you are using is not dry, old, or damaged by the elements.

Keep thread in a plastic bag to help protect it.

Make sure that the thread does not untwist, if so, then the bonding agents have

evaporated or weren't very good to begin with.

Threading

2l Make sure that your machine is threaded correctly. Breaking thread, skipping, fraying

the thread, and tension problems will occur if your machine is threaded incorrectly.

Take up lever

3) The take up lever has 2 functions: to give the thread enough slack so the hook can carry

the thread around the bobbin case, and, after the hook releases the thread, allows the

thread to pull up into the leather.

Check spring

4) The check spring maintains tension on the thread as the take up lever returns to the top

position.

Needles

5) The needle must be installed correctly. Make sure that the long groove is on the left,

and the scarf is on the right.

Needles are tempered, so after usage, they lose their temper and become weak. A weak

needle will bend or break easier after losing its temper. When the needle breaks, it

could cause damage to the presser foot, needle plate, feed dog, or shuttle hook, so

make sure that you change your needle every 12 hours of actual sewing.

Also, make sure that you use the correct size needle for the thread and thickness of

leather that you are using. lf you are using too big of a needle, then at times, the thread

will travel up and down inside the hole that the needle punched resembling a tension

problem. lt is all relative. The heavier the leather, the heavier the needle and thread.

The lighter the leather, the lighter the needle and thread.

Tensions

6) The thickness of the leather that you are sewing will dictate the amount of tension that

you will need. You should loosen the tensions for lighter leather.

Your tensions work in conjunction with each other, so you should loosen or tighten both

tensions when adjusting them. You should never loosen or tighten more than 1 full turn

at a time.

lf you run into a problem with your tension and you are not sure which way to turn or

you just can't seem to get your tension back where they were, then it is time to recalibrate

them. This is a simple task.

To re-calibrate your tensions, remove both knurled tension nuts completely, then put

them both back on the machine until they just come in contact with the tension spring

and stop. Sew a test piece. You will probably find that the stitch is toose, but this is what

we want. You are now able to adjust your tension by tightening them both 1 turn at a

time untilthe stitch pulls up.

You may also experience bobbin tension problems. lf you have tightened the bobbin

tension as far as you can, and stillthere is not enough tension (the bobbin thread is

visible on top of the leather), you may have to clean out under the bobbin case spring.

After hundreds of yards of thread pass under the bobbin case spring, microscopic fibers

of thread, along with leather dust and other debris, start to collect under the bobbin

case spring causing the spring to spread and give false tension.

lf this is the case, then you will have to remove the spring, clean out the debris, and may

have to bend the spring to put more pressure on the thread which will give you more

tension and allow you to be able to adjust your bobbin tension as well. You may have to

purchase a new bobbin case spring if re-shaping your existing spring does not work.

Shuttle Hook

7) lt is very important that your shuttle hook is in excellent condition. lf your hook has

burrs, or scratches, then you must buffthem offto make your hook smooth again so the

thread will pass over the hook with ease. lf your thread is fraying, then a burr is most

likely the problem. The thread will pass over the burr and then get caught, causing a

couple of the strands to break. You should run your finger nail over the top, sides,

under, and at the point of the hook when feeling for burrs.

The shuttle hook travels in the race assembly. You should clean out the race assembly

frequently. The race assembly must be clean, smooth, and oiled to assure the best

sewing results.

Needle Deflector

8) The needle deflector is located in the shuttle hook area. lt actually deflects the needle to

protect the point of the hook. The needle will brush against the deflector moving the

needle slightly to the left of the point of the hook. lt also keeps the needle straight,

assuring that the loop made by the thread is consistent.

Presser Feet Timing

9) Both Presser Feet should rise to the same height as they alternate walking. The

procedure to assure that your presser feet are walking correctly is to turn the hand

wheel towards you until the point of the needle is even with the plate or feed dog. At

this time both presser feet should be down. The needle, and both presser feet should

meet at the plate or feed dog at the same time. lf this is not the case, then loosen the

adjusting screw and make the adjustment. The adjusting screw is located on the far right

side on the back of the machine. lt is an Allen Head screw.

Presser Feet Height

10)The presser feet height is determined by what you are sewing. For the most part, the

height is set at medium to high. This will allow most applications to feed (whether thick

or thin) without getting caught on the feet and impeding the motion of the feed system.

lf you are manufacturing one item, like belts, where the thickness is constant, then you

would set the height to accommodate the belts thickness. This adjustment is in the back

of the machine, and is sometimes referred to as the "banana slide" adjustment.

Hook Timing

11)To set the timing for the hook, first remove the needle plate and in some cases, the feed

dog. This will allow you maximum vision. Set the stitch length to zero. Put a new needle

in the machine. Raise the presser feet to the up position. Turn the hand wheel towards

you untilthe needle is in the lowest position. Continue to turn the hand wheel untilthe

needle comes up 3/16" , this measurement is critical. At this time, the point of the hook

should be even with the needle and approximately 1/8" above the eye of the needle,

and in the scarf of the needle as well.

To adjust the shuttle hook, remove the round cover plate on the front of the machine

located in the lower right hand side. After removing the cover plate, look inside the

machine and you will find the black Allen Head bolt that holds the hook driving shaft.

You may have to turn the hand wheel to get a better view of this bolt.

Loosen the bolt and you will be able to physically turn the shuttle hook while it is in the

machine. Turn the shuttle hook to the correct setting, 1/8" above the eye and then

tighten the bolt.

This may take more than one try.

Tip: A quick way to check if your machine is out of time is to lower the needle. Just

above the screw that holds the needle in place, is a hole that you can look into and see

the top of the needle. Loosen the screw, then drop the needle until it covers half of the

hole and try sewing. lf the machine sews properly, then you will have to advance the

shuttle hook about 1/32" .lf it still does not work, the lower the needle again, until the

top of the needle is even with the bottom of the hole, and then try again. lf this corrects

the problem then you will have to advance the shuttle hook about 1/16".

lf your machine still does not sew properly, then retime your machine based on the

instructions above.

These adjustments may vary depending on the machine. These instructions offered in

this tutorial may not be absolute, because there are other factors that could come into

play, but are a good starting point.

Thank you, Steve

For more info, please call:

Leather Machine Co., lnc.

1-866-962-9880

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Thanks Steve. Cheryl

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Great tips!

Here's a threading video you can all use:

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Great tips for general knowledge, not just the focus on the machines mentioned. I learned, or had reinforced, a few steps in the process.

One query: I see in Ron's video (great video) the double looping of the thread around the upper tension disks. I've run across this before, but can't recall if it was for a specific machine of mine, or a threading step for any number of machines. Can anyone describe why the double looping, and if it pertains generally to a machine type, or more specifically to a make, model, class, etc.?

Ian

SF Bay Area

http://imcinnis.blogspot.com/

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In the video, the fellow went through the eyelet and over the disc and straight down to the next eyelet. He did not go around the disc and back out of the eyelet as they suggest on a Cobra 4. Other than the "L'" arm protruding between the side discs and the check spring everything else is Cobra 4 threading.

I am beginning to believe that each machine has a myriad of combinations that will work. If you go to You Tube and watch the threading proceedures on each machine, they are different but they supply the "correct" tension for the machine.

The following represents success on one piece of leather but:

On my Cobra 4, I came from the spool to a lube pot on the top of the machine to the eyelet on top. Through the eyelet and straight down ( not around the disc but snapping the thread between the discs) to the the side eyelet. From there I took the thread counterclockwise until I was level with the check spring (not twice around) through which I threaded. Then up to the take up arm, down to the (can't remember the name) then as Cobra 4s are supposed to be.

Between this "mod" and changing from nylon to polyester, I did not have any skipped stitches nor did I have any of the signs of bad tension. It also rid me of past problems of the Cobra 4 "seizing" the thread and causing thread problems. One, when it did grab, the top thread would lie straight in the stitch groove and the bobbin thead would show on top.

I will try to remember to report back. I cut and glued two holsters tonight and tomorrow I will sew. Please pray for me. :helpsmilie:

Edited by Red Cent

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G'day Red Cent & Ian1783,

I have a Q Stitch Colt, which is vertually identical to the Techsew 5100 in the vid. with only a slight difference on the thread guides.

On my machine, I loop the thread though the eyelet through the (top) discs , give it a slight tug to make sure it 'sits in' ( sometimes hearing a slight 'snap' of the discs ) , and back through the eyelet , and continue threading.

Before I did that, on some very rare occasions, the thread 'snapped out' of the (top) discs whilst sewing.

This threading method rectified that little problem.

Also, as we all know, oiling your machine/s at regular intervals is important .

As well as oiling all the regular oiling points on my machine, I take the shuttle hook assembly right out and put a little bit of oil on the rounded part of the assembly. ( and anything else on the machine while its out), but not too much .

Just a little thing that I've learnt from my own experience.

It now runs whisper quiet.

All the best,

Handstitched :cowboy:

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Most of these tips are relevant to the Highlead machines but with the extra precaution that if the needle bar assembly has any sideways movement you need to remove the faceplate and undo the screw that holds the small bracket in place. Push the bracket against the needle bar assembly and tighten the screw. This will save lots of ongoing problems.

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Hi i'm new to all of this posting stuff so please bear with me a little . i just recieved a new cobra 4 from Steve and i'm wondering if i should sell my old consew 226r1 for the lighter materials. can anyone tell me how light of a material can i sew with my new machine?? i'm just getting my new xmas present from my lovely wife set up and i put it oncraigs list but i'm wondering if i'm making a mistake letting go ot it??? Thanks in advance for any advice you guys can give a noobie..... Chapman.. :cowboy:

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Hi i'm new to all of this posting stuff so please bear with me a little . i just recieved a new cobra 4 from Steve and i'm wondering if i should sell my old consew 226r1 for the lighter materials. can anyone tell me how light of a material can i sew with my new machine?? i'm just getting my new xmas present from my lovely wife set up and i put it oncraigs list but i'm wondering if i'm making a mistake letting go ot it??? Thanks in advance for any advice you guys can give a noobie..... Chapman.. :cowboy:

I would suggest keeping it if you want to do thin stuff. I don't try to sew thinner than 5-6 ounce total thickness on my Cobra 4. I actually bought a Cobra 18 to do thinner stuff and it works better for thinner leather. Unless you need the money, why not wait a little bit to see if you need the Consew for thinner stuff if the Cobra won't work? You can sell it later if the Cobra does all you need.

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Chapman;

You posted your general question in what is known as a sticky topic. Steve's tips for 441 owners was supposed to be his own limited discussion topic, not an open discussion.

You should re-post your question as a new topic, in this section of the forum (but not this particular topic). Personally, I keep several machines, each with a different capacity. Smaller machines are for thinner work. Your Cobra Class 4 is not meant to replace them.

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Thanks for getting back to me lws380 and wiz I'm thinking you guys are right about hanging on to it awhile the only reason for selling is space in the shop.. and I am sorry about posting in the wrong place I didn't realize it until it was too late wiz.. chapman...

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Chapman asked if the Cobra Class 4 is good for thin material. Technically: yes; practically: not without certain readjustments.

I have used a Class 4 owned by a fellow leather goods producer and own an identical machine branded as a Cowboy. These machines are built tougher than most sewing machines. They have massive castings and very strong pressure and tension springs. Their feed dogs are very large and have a gigantic needle hole that is more or less a slot. The cutout in the throat plate is very long and wide, to accommodate the full range of motion of the feed dog and its maximum stitch length setting.

All this is meant to allow you to sew very dense and thick stacks of leather, or webbing, with most of the heaviest bonded threads in common distribution.

So, what needs to be done to sew thin, soft material? You need to dumb down your machine. Here's how.

For normal stiffness heavy broadcloth and denim (pants and shirts), etc:

  • change to a #20 or 21 regular round point needle.
  • Switch to #92 bonded nylon or polyester thread, or #80 or 100 cotton/polyester jeans thread.
  • Load the bobbin with the same thread. When you install the bobbin, reset the spring tension on the bobbin case for a slight, but smooth resistance. Basically, it needs a little more pull that a domestic sewing machine, but nowhere near what you use to sew a half inch stack of veg-tan.
  • Use the supplied open end wrench to loosen the nut on the back of the housing on the head for the shaft on the lower tension disks.
  • There is a spring on the bottom shaft, known as the "check spring." It's job is to keep tension on the top thread as the needlebar moves down. It lets go just before the needle reaches BDC and reengages as the needle and take-up lever start moving up. The amount of travel can be set via the movable sliding steel stopper under the bottom of the spring. Normally, your 441 machine is adjusted with a lot of check spring tension, needed to maintain control of up to #415 bonded thread. It is waaaaaay too much action for #92 thread!
  • After loosening the locking nut, use a screw driver blade in the split end of the bottom shaft and turn it counter clockwise to loosen the spring action. You'll want to back off the spring action so the spring has just enough tension to fully travel up and down to its stopper, and nothing more.
  • Tighten down the nut behind the housing to lock in that spring setting.
  • You may or may not also need to back off the nut on the front of the lower disk shaft, to allow the upper tensioner to control the position of the knots.
  • Back off the upper tension disks nut and sew into a test piece of the same material and thickness. Keep backing off the top tension nut until the knots are buried inside the material. You may have to take it to zero tension. If you cannot back off enough on the top, loosen the lower tension disk tension with its round knurled nut.
  • If the knots are just slightly on top, tighten the bobbin spring a little.
  • Make sure the top thread feeds straight from the thread stand through just one hole in the top post. Doubling the top thread around that post can sometimes override the top tension spring in soft and thin materiel.
  • As a last resort, move down one more needle size. You can go as low as a #19 needle for #80 or 92 thread. Smaller needles make tighter holes and help the knots to move down.
  • Last, back off the presser foot pressure adjuster until it almost pops out of the housing.
  • Hold back the starting thread in your left hand.
  • Backtack over the first three stitches to lock them in.
  • Sew at about 8 stitches per inch.
  • Backtack 3 stitches or so at the end

To sew soft and thin cloth materials (iffy)

  • Switch to no more than #69 bonded thread. Polyester may work better.
  • Install a #18 standard round point needle.
  • Make sure the top thread has a direct feed path to the upper tensioner without doubling over any posts.
  • Remove the throat plate and bobbin case, then unscrew the feed dog. Use a wide flat blade screwdriver and lots of torque (ccw).
  • Install the optional flat throat plate with a narrow slot.
  • Reinstall the bobbin case.
  • Follow above procedures for reducing all tensions and foot pressure.
  • Use the double toe harness foot, or even the wide blanket foot, if you received one.
  • Balance the tensions as best as you can, with a minimum of bobbin tension.
  • Install the flat table attachment for better material stability.
  • Hold back the starting threads and sew forward three stitches
  • Reverse and sew back over those stitches.
  • Hold the material fairly tightly front and back and sew at about 8 or 9 stitches to the inch.
  • Backtack at the end.

These readjustments will technically allow you to sew cloth on your big 441 machine. The drawbacks are the time needed to do all these changes and parts removals and the walking feet with an open gap behind the inside foot. The huge feed dog and its throat plate can allow soft and thin materials to get pushed down into those openings.

All these worries can be alleviated by using a standard industrial sewing machine for lighter work. You can even use a common household machine for light cloth and linings. They use much lighter thread and much smaller needles.

Edited by Wizcrafts

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Tomorrow I'll be picking up a 127W1 and was told you might have some info on it Wiz. It's a very rare machine that is non existant on the web and in singers search engine. Any help at all would be greI believe but not 100% certain it take 138 thread not sure what needle. It's a gem to collectors I would think but seems to be a bit of a nightmare for me

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I think this video of Cobra Steve going over the whole machine with all its adjustments makes a useful addition to this thread:

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Great tips for general knowledge, not just the focus on the machines mentioned. I learned, or had reinforced, a few steps in the process.

One query: I see in Ron's video (great video) the double looping of the thread around the upper tension disks. I've run across this before, but can't recall if it was for a specific machine of mine, or a threading step for any number of machines. Can anyone describe why the double looping, and if it pertains generally to a machine type, or more specifically to a make, model, class, etc.?

Ian

SF Bay Area

http://imcinnis.blogspot.com/

From my experience (and documented in my Willcox & Gibbs manual from 1875...a LOVELY antique!!), the additional winding was to increase the tension on the machine. I'm assuming that W&G proposed this "alternate" threading of allowing users to wind the thread around the tensioner up to three times was because at that time, any kind of tension adjuster had not been invented (or thought of - c'mon, 1875 is from the very early days of sewing). Of course. W&G manual also stated that their "automatic tensioner was not to be meddled with". :)

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One thing to add. Even though you take a new needle from the package double check the point. I had a situation where I was having issues with fraying and the needle catching as it pulled up the bobbin thread. I had just place a new needle in the machine but when I took it out and looked at the point under a magnifying glass I found a small burr on the point. It wasn't much but it was enough to cause me a bunch of frustration trying to figure out what the problem was.

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Amazing knowledge on this forum. I am privileged to have access to all this millennia worth of experience. This is very very helpful ti inderstand the machine better. Happy sewing all

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G'Day,

Another good tip (?) , give your machine a name. I call mine 'Brutus' . 

Heavy Duty Sewing Machine 002

Its about time I removed the " F" & " R" magnets . I put those there on day one  when I had my " L " ( learner plates)  on when I was learning about my new toy....er....friend , many years ago  :) 

I have a lot of respect for ' Brutus' .Its worked so hard and has now paid for itself. 

I have all the adjustments just perfect now to suit  all my sewing and rarely needs re-adjusting.  I regularly check all the nuts & bolts, the belt , cleaning and polishing as I go . Its  regularly oiled and has never let me down. 

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Ialreayd  have Juki TSC-441, an might need anther sttching machine for making knife sheaths, anybody has experience with below manual leather sewing machine machine on youtube?

https://youtu.be/TGSqsUV1Abk

 

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6 hours ago, sakuraleather said:

Ialreayd  have Juki TSC-441, an might need anther sttching machine for making knife sheaths, anybody has experience with below manual leather sewing machine machine on youtube?

https://youtu.be/TGSqsUV1Abk

 

The Cowboy Outlaw is brand new on the market. It is just reaching the dealers now.

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On ‎8‎/‎8‎/‎2013 at 12:45 PM, Johanna said:

MAINTENANCE AND TIPS FOR THE COBRA CLASS 3, 4, & KING COBRA,

PRO 2000, ARTISAN TORO 3000, 3200,4000, Cowboy 3500, 4500,

TECHSEW 5100, SEW PRO 44L, KINGMAX, MASTER LOCK, JUKI 441. AND

OTHER 441 STYLE MACHINES

Thread

1) Make sure that the thread you are using is not dry, old, or damaged by the elements.

Keep thread in a plastic bag to help protect it.

Make sure that the thread does not untwist, if so, then the bonding agents have

evaporated or weren't very good to begin with.

Threading

2l Make sure that your machine is threaded correctly. Breaking thread, skipping, fraying

the thread, and tension problems will occur if your machine is threaded incorrectly.

Take up lever

3) The take up lever has 2 functions: to give the thread enough slack so the hook can carry

the thread around the bobbin case, and, after the hook releases the thread, allows the

thread to pull up into the leather.

Check spring

4) The check spring maintains tension on the thread as the take up lever returns to the top

position.

Needles

5) The needle must be installed correctly. Make sure that the long groove is on the left,

and the scarf is on the right.

Needles are tempered, so after usage, they lose their temper and become weak. A weak

needle will bend or break easier after losing its temper. When the needle breaks, it

could cause damage to the presser foot, needle plate, feed dog, or shuttle hook, so

make sure that you change your needle every 12 hours of actual sewing.

Also, make sure that you use the correct size needle for the thread and thickness of

leather that you are using. lf you are using too big of a needle, then at times, the thread

will travel up and down inside the hole that the needle punched resembling a tension

problem. lt is all relative. The heavier the leather, the heavier the needle and thread.

The lighter the leather, the lighter the needle and thread.

Tensions

6) The thickness of the leather that you are sewing will dictate the amount of tension that

you will need. You should loosen the tensions for lighter leather.

Your tensions work in conjunction with each other, so you should loosen or tighten both

tensions when adjusting them. You should never loosen or tighten more than 1 full turn

at a time.

lf you run into a problem with your tension and you are not sure which way to turn or

you just can't seem to get your tension back where they were, then it is time to recalibrate

them. This is a simple task.

To re-calibrate your tensions, remove both knurled tension nuts completely, then put

them both back on the machine until they just come in contact with the tension spring

and stop. Sew a test piece. You will probably find that the stitch is toose, but this is what

we want. You are now able to adjust your tension by tightening them both 1 turn at a

time untilthe stitch pulls up.

You may also experience bobbin tension problems. lf you have tightened the bobbin

tension as far as you can, and stillthere is not enough tension (the bobbin thread is

visible on top of the leather), you may have to clean out under the bobbin case spring.

After hundreds of yards of thread pass under the bobbin case spring, microscopic fibers

of thread, along with leather dust and other debris, start to collect under the bobbin

case spring causing the spring to spread and give false tension.

lf this is the case, then you will have to remove the spring, clean out the debris, and may

have to bend the spring to put more pressure on the thread which will give you more

tension and allow you to be able to adjust your bobbin tension as well. You may have to

purchase a new bobbin case spring if re-shaping your existing spring does not work.

Shuttle Hook

7) lt is very important that your shuttle hook is in excellent condition. lf your hook has

burrs, or scratches, then you must buffthem offto make your hook smooth again so the

thread will pass over the hook with ease. lf your thread is fraying, then a burr is most

likely the problem. The thread will pass over the burr and then get caught, causing a

couple of the strands to break. You should run your finger nail over the top, sides,

under, and at the point of the hook when feeling for burrs.

The shuttle hook travels in the race assembly. You should clean out the race assembly

frequently. The race assembly must be clean, smooth, and oiled to assure the best

sewing results.

Needle Deflector

8) The needle deflector is located in the shuttle hook area. lt actually deflects the needle to

protect the point of the hook. The needle will brush against the deflector moving the

needle slightly to the left of the point of the hook. lt also keeps the needle straight,

assuring that the loop made by the thread is consistent.

Presser Feet Timing

9) Both Presser Feet should rise to the same height as they alternate walking. The

procedure to assure that your presser feet are walking correctly is to turn the hand

wheel towards you until the point of the needle is even with the plate or feed dog. At

this time both presser feet should be down. The needle, and both presser feet should

meet at the plate or feed dog at the same time. lf this is not the case, then loosen the

adjusting screw and make the adjustment. The adjusting screw is located on the far right

side on the back of the machine. lt is an Allen Head screw.

Presser Feet Height

10)The presser feet height is determined by what you are sewing. For the most part, the

height is set at medium to high. This will allow most applications to feed (whether thick

or thin) without getting caught on the feet and impeding the motion of the feed system.

lf you are manufacturing one item, like belts, where the thickness is constant, then you

would set the height to accommodate the belts thickness. This adjustment is in the back

of the machine, and is sometimes referred to as the "banana slide" adjustment.

Hook Timing

11)To set the timing for the hook, first remove the needle plate and in some cases, the feed

dog. This will allow you maximum vision. Set the stitch length to zero. Put a new needle

in the machine. Raise the presser feet to the up position. Turn the hand wheel towards

you untilthe needle is in the lowest position. Continue to turn the hand wheel untilthe

needle comes up 3/16" , this measurement is critical. At this time, the point of the hook

should be even with the needle and approximately 1/8" above the eye of the needle,

and in the scarf of the needle as well.

To adjust the shuttle hook, remove the round cover plate on the front of the machine

located in the lower right hand side. After removing the cover plate, look inside the

machine and you will find the black Allen Head bolt that holds the hook driving shaft.

You may have to turn the hand wheel to get a better view of this bolt.

Loosen the bolt and you will be able to physically turn the shuttle hook while it is in the

machine. Turn the shuttle hook to the correct setting, 1/8" above the eye and then

tighten the bolt.

This may take more than one try.

Tip: A quick way to check if your machine is out of time is to lower the needle. Just

above the screw that holds the needle in place, is a hole that you can look into and see

the top of the needle. Loosen the screw, then drop the needle until it covers half of the

hole and try sewing. lf the machine sews properly, then you will have to advance the

shuttle hook about 1/32" .lf it still does not work, the lower the needle again, until the

top of the needle is even with the bottom of the hole, and then try again. lf this corrects

the problem then you will have to advance the shuttle hook about 1/16".

lf your machine still does not sew properly, then retime your machine based on the

instructions above.

These adjustments may vary depending on the machine. These instructions offered in

this tutorial may not be absolute, because there are other factors that could come into

play, but are a good starting point.

Thank you, Steve

For more info, please call:

Leather Machine Co., lnc.

1-866-962-9880

very good summation

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Thank you.

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