Parts For A Singer 45K69

[simran]

This is a sole stitcher made by Singer years ago. It is on a treadle stand and works good; as good as one of these works anyway. They weren't much of a sole stitcher really; nothing like a Landis anyway. Worked alright for repair work I suppose.

I have ground out the adjustment for the stitch length so it makes a much longer stitch now. What I'm wondering is if I can change the feed dogs and foot so it can be used like a regular cylinder arm.

Thanks Guys

[amuckart]

I have huge machine envy right now! I really want to get hold of an original treadle stand for my 45k.

Can you share more detailed photos of the feet and feed dogs on the machine at the moment?

Thanks.

[Evo160K]

Simran,

That's one fine looking machine and treadle stand you have there!

From a novice who's done some research finding parts to restore a 45K25 cylinder arm machine, I can offer the following:

The Feed Dog Carrier, part number 91160, in the K69 and K25 are identical. That tells me the K25 feed dogs (and others in that series) will fit in your machine. Also, the 91163 Feed Rock shaft is used in both machines. Whether the K25 feed dogs (and others in that series) will line up with your presser foot and feed material properly is another question, others may know. Since the needle plate part numbers are different, the K25 are curved, and the K69 appear to be flat, I suspect you will need to fabricate a needle plate. That's not difficult though, I did a curved one recently.

You'll find more information in the reference sources I used:

http://dixiesewingmachine.tzo.com/MANUALS/SINGERPARTS2/45K68,K69,K71.pdf

http://dixiesewingmachine.tzo.com/MANUALS/SINGERPARTS2/45K21,%2045K25,%2045K63,%20&%2045K78.pdf

Simran, if you ever decide to part with your machine and stand, please let me know. I would be very pleased to have it or even just the stand to go with the K25 I'm restoring.

Best of luck with the project.

[Constabulary]

It´s so nice to see that there are still a bunch of "cast iron" lovers out there

Simran - in case your machine has the same presser foot bar like the 45K25 (for instance), then you could use the presser feet of the modern GA5-1 sewing machines or Cowboy 2500 from Toledo Sewing Machines

Could you post a picture of the bobbin winder? Looks interesting....

[Geneva]

Amuckart

The stand for the 29-4 will work to mount your 45 on. You will need to fix a couple of new holes in order to mount it.

Have fun.

[Evo160K]

Constabulary, Simran

The part numbers for the K69 and K25 presser foot bars are the same. I believe the two machines feed differently though, so the presser feet are different.

For what it's worth, the shuttle race part numbers are the same also, 91451. The shuttles are different however as are the shuttle driver and feed raising cam.

I'm guessing the "jumping mechanism or gripping mechanism, whatever it's called" could be taken off the K69, the K25 type foot used with the K25 feed dog, and a proper fitting needle plate fabricated as necessary. Of course the shuttle driver feed raising cam would have to cooperate.

Simran, you might pop a K25 feed dog in your machine and see how things look. To change out your shuttle driver feed raising cam, shuttle and what ever else is required to convert to a K25 type, might cost more than it's worth. Recall I'm a novice talking, so check everything I've said.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Evo160K

[Darren Brosowski]

Not sure where you got the idea that this is a sole stitcher. Official Singer description is here:

http://www.parts.singerco.com/IPpartCharts/45K56_89.pdf

[Darren Brosowski]

I have stock of shuttles, needle bars, needle clamps, feed dogs, roller feet, shuttle races and a lot of other 45k parts.

[Constabulary]

Not sure where you got the idea that this is a sole stitcher. Official Singer description is here:

http://www.parts.singerco.com/IPpartCharts/45K56_89.pdf

Wrong description Darren, the 45K69 is a sole stitcher machine!

We have compiled a list of subclass descriptions here:

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=61619&p=397944

[simran]

OK, I thought there was no interest in this old machine as I wasn't getting any responses in my email.I thought I'd check back and look at the original post to see if there was a better place to post it. I didn't have email response set up I guess.

I appreciate all the responses and here are a couple photos that were either asked for or may help in my search.

This machine originally took a flat plate that was curved to the outside edge. The plate that's on it has been modified and filled in on the outer edge. The feed dogs are also curved to the outer edge and these feed dogs are original. I suppose what I need to do now is just take the feed dogs out so I can compare them to some of the ones suggested above.

Anyone want to see anything else just let me know. I can take pics. of pretty much anything.

Again thanks guys,

[Constabulary]

Pictures are always welcome since there is not much documentation for these nice old machines. Always good to see details :-)

[simran]

Evo160K

If you have one could you post a picture of a set of k25 feed dogs & presser foot? Anyone for that matter.

Thanks,

Constabulary, Simran

The part numbers for the K69 and K25 presser foot bars are the same. I believe the two machines feed differently though, so the presser feet are different.

For what it's worth, the shuttle race part numbers are the same also, 91451. The shuttles are different however as are the shuttle driver and feed raising cam.

I'm guessing the "jumping mechanism or gripping mechanism, whatever it's called" could be taken off the K69, the K25 type foot used with the K25 feed dog, and a proper fitting needle plate fabricated as necessary. Of course the shuttle driver feed raising cam would have to cooperate.

Simran, you might pop a K25 feed dog in your machine and see how things look. To change out your shuttle driver feed raising cam, shuttle and what ever else is required to convert to a K25 type, might cost more than it's worth. Recall I'm a novice talking, so check everything I've said.

[amuckart]

Looking at those pictures, it's not going to be able to take a '25 needle plate and probably won't take '25 feed dogs either. The needle plate on a '25 is curved and the casting on your machine under the needle plate is flat.

It's a very interesting machine, and it looks very complete, which is quite rare. If it were mine I would leave it as-is, use it to its strengths - it would probably be really good for sewing round the edges of case work - and get another cylinder arm machine.

Failing that, you could probably sell it to a collector for enough to buy a GA5.

[simran]

It is pretty much complete . . .and it is a nice machine. I doubt I'd go through the work involved to change it much. I would like to find a regular set of feed dogs that would fit. If I could do that I would have a small, flat plate made at the school.

After you see the pictures below you may agree that the basic pattern of the feed dogs are, if not the same very similar to that of the K25. The K69 feed dogs are definitely rounded on the bottom side.

See for yourself. I tried to get good enough pictures so you can read the numbers as well.

Edited April 2, 2015 by simran

[Evo160K]

Simran,

Here are pictures of my feed dogs, needle plates and feet. The larger plate and the larger foot I fabricated.

Those illustrated parts list I posted above will answer a lot of questions. You'll see some of the 45k dogs and plates are straight like your k69. I know the dogs will fit in your shuttle driver feed raising cam, not sure if they'll work in the k69 needle plates though.

Simran, what's preventing you from using the K69 like a K21 for instance now?

You may find this interesting, it explains the differences among the 45K series machines:

http://www.1stinfantrydivision.de//images/stories/PDF_Dateien/Singer%2045K%20Descriptions%20of%20Subclasses.pdf

As a side bar here, notice the way the smaller needle plate is shaped, some of it is higher than the other. I couldn't understand why the previous owner of the machine used the roller presser foot and the regular, smaller, presser foot together on that needle plate. Then yesterday I was reading about stirrup plates and saw they have a higher portion also, I suspect to help guide the stirrup smoothly past the needle. That got me to thinking maybe the previous owner who repaired athletic equipment (helmets, shoulder pads, curved items, etc.) may have fabricated that plate to work similar to a stirrup plate. If Simran doesn't mind, does anyone have a thought on that?

Edited April 2, 2015 by Evo160K

[Constabulary]

@ Evo160

I recently have found an application in an Adler 104 brochure where they use a presser foot in addition to a "fixed foot". I never thought of this but here is a picture. But I would assume the fixed foot is not touching the material. It seems to be slightly above the material. The fixed foot is for preventing the material to lift up when the needle is rising. But thats just a guess.

The brochure comes for the from the Duerkopp Adler Blog

http://sew24.blogspot.de/2012/02/vintage-leaflets-for-adler-sewing_23.html

[simran]

I studied up on the K21 a bit and it IS very similar to the K69; even the stitch length parameters are the same. I am pretty much convinced that a standard straight set of feed dogs will fit. Like you, I am also convinced that no needle plate will fit except the one that is on it. I do, however , think I can get the trade school here to make a plate that will work. That way I can reverse any modifications that are done and bring the machine back to original.

I could sell it and buy a Ga5-1 model of some type or other but for me it is all about having a cylinder arm machine on a treadle base. I don't want to seperate the two components at this late stage in history. To me that would be tragic.

Thanks all for walking me through this. now let's ssseeeee . . . . .

[Evo160K]

Simran,

Would you please keep us posted on your progress and result? Sure would like to know if it will work. That's good thinking to keep the original parts, so you can reverse and go back to the original.

Love that machine and stand, please think of me if you ever plan to part with it.

Regards.

@Constabulary,

Thanks for posting the picture. Did you see the picture of the Adler 104? where they were using two needles with the two roller feet? That setup must turn on a dime? (You probably know a dime is the smallest US coin in physical size.)

Edited April 3, 2015 by Evo160K

[Constabulary]

Al - sorry for not responding your Email. The 2 rollers are for sewing raised seams. The 2 needles are for decorative stitching.This must be something for the shoe industry or heavy duty upholstery. I`m sure Adler produced a wide range of sewing machine accessories for the shoe industry for several application one "simple human being" like us would not even think of.

[simran]

I used to have an Adler shoe patching machine. I loved that thing but didn't use it that much. I finally sold it and have regretted it ever since. A shoe patcher is one of this machines that does a job that, simply, nothing else can duplicate. If you've ever had one you almost can't do without one again. That Adler was a good one!

Al - sorry for not responding your Email. The 2 rollers are for sewing raised seams. The 2 needles are for decorative stitching.This must be something for the shoe industry or heavy duty upholstery. I`m sure Adler produced a wide range of sewing machine accessories for the shoe industry for several application one "simple human being" like us would not even think of.

Edited April 4, 2015 by simran

[jimi]

Hi Simran, nice machine you got there. looks like someone filled up your needle plate with solder or something?? it should be slanted like your feed dog teeth, and the foot should also be slanted. it dosent look like the original foot, or maybe it has been modified?? they twisted from the left side to the right side and they were slanted and had a small lip on the side probably acting as a guide to maintain the distance from the edge the same. you can see them in the parts book for your machine.

http://dixiesewingmachine.tzo.com/MANUALS/SINGERPARTS2/45K68,K69,K71.pdf

seems like there were two plate options, one is the slanted one you have and the other a flat plate with a two toothed feed dog for the. i made up a plate like this for my 45k21 and it works very well, if you adjust the stitch length to the same distance as the space between the two teeth on your feed dog then on straight runs you dont see any marks on the bottom side of the leather. the needle plate you have, had a small knife which fitted in the channel leading up to the needle hole, this was to cut a channel on the sole and bury the thread. part nº 95111. i would imagine that you could make a flat single plate no problem, but remember that the teeth on the 45k21 feed dog are shorter in height, maybe the 45k89 similar feed dog has taller teeth?? this is something you will have to try and measure or compare before buying the feed dog. if you need any measurements for the 45k21 teeth just ask. the length of the teeth on the feed dog 95101 are a lot longer as it has to pass through 2 plates, but if you use 1 then it would possibly work fine. all the best,jimi.

[jimi]

Hi There Simran, this is what your plate and foot should look like on your machine. as you see the foot bends right over to the right side and has a slight slant and lip on the right side

and this is the other plate i was talking about with the two teeth.

[jimi]

By the way, the two last photos which you see sewing the leather are the same machine. it sold on ebay and was cleaned up, then again up for selling. unfortunately the guy who fixed it up eliminated the first set of tension disks and replaced the second one with a nasty looking new one!!!. there should be three in total: 1 on the bobbin spool: 2 just before the thread enters the oil box (the one the guy chucked): 3 after the oil box.

[jimi]

Sorry,wrong pictures,

first two pctures before it was sold, then the others are after it was sold and fixed up. you can see the long scar besides the singer name is still there.