Casing Leather

[wolvenstien]

I didnt mean to steal the thread TRM started about organizing tools and turn it into a casing discussion.

I started by damping my leather with wet sponge, but I found that I was not getting an even penetration by doing it. So after discussing with some people about this issue, it was suggested to me to immerse the leather to get an even penetration of water through out the leather.... Yes, I have to prep the leather about 8-12 hours before I intend to do the work to it, depending on the thickness and size of the leather, but I have found that once I allow it to dry back to almost dry, but still moise enough to where I can feel the moisture in my cheek when I feel it, I get great depth, and my carving stays where it is. If I try to tool before it is dryed to the right point, it will expand after tooling and the carving will be messed up.... but once I got the hang of getting it at the right point, I have not had any problems, and I dont have to re wet the leather while working with it as long as I am done with it in 4-5 hours.... if I have to leave it for a period of time, I will cover it with my plastic cutting board. This helps give it longevity so I can come back later and continue to tool it without it getting too dry.

[Johanna]

I know some carvers who wet the leather by immersing it and then keep it in a plastic bag in the fridge between work sessions. The leather looks mushy to me.

I know others who put water on with a damp sponge or spray bottle as needed, and don't worry if the leather dries out in the meantime. I am interested to hear what you folks think, and why you do what you do, concerning casing. For the stamping i do, the spray bottle method has worked fine for me, but that's how i was taught; it's not like I ever knew any other ways.

Johanna

[Peter Ellis]

Much of what I do involves 13-15 oz. saddle skirting. I have not been happy with spraying or wiping down with a sponge on leather that heavy - the water doesn't penetrate and then the tooling doesn't either.

My work schedule is such that I find I can drop a piece in the tub in the evening before I hit the sack, take it out in the morning before I go to work, and have it ready to tool when I get home. At that point, if it is drying out too much, a damp sponge works, because it's the surface that's getting too dry. Inside there's still moisture enough.

When I work with lighter stock, then I may go to the damp sponge. Generally though, I find the soak and wait method to work pretty well for me across the board. I fits well with the rest of my schedule.

[joet]

I didnt mean to steal the thread TRM started about organizing tools and turn it into a casing discussion.

I started by damping my leather with wet sponge, but I found that I was not getting an even penetration by doing it. So after discussing with some people about this issue, it was suggested to me to immerse the leather to get an even penetration of water through out the leather.... Yes, I have to prep the leather about 8-12 hours before I intend to do the work to it, depending on the thickness and size of the leather, but I have found that once I allow it to dry back to almost dry, but still moise enough to where I can feel the moisture in my cheek when I feel it, I get great depth, and my carving stays where it is. If I try to tool before it is dryed to the right point, it will expand after tooling and the carving will be messed up.... but once I got the hang of getting it at the right point, I have not had any problems, and I dont have to re wet the leather while working with it as long as I am done with it in 4-5 hours.... if I have to leave it for a period of time, I will cover it with my plastic cutting board. This helps give it longevity so I can come back later and continue to tool it without it getting too dry.

When I first started leather crafting over 30 years ago, I would case by putting it in water until the bubbles stopped coming out. It would take many hours to dry and if I was in a hurry, it just wouldn't do. I then went over to using the sponge or dipping the leather for just a few moments and that seemed to work fairly well. Then I sprayed the leather. I found there would be areas that got more water than others and I would have to spray again. I have gone back to the sponge and bowl method with ProCarve casing solution and I find this to be - for me - what works the best. If I will be working on a project for a long time, I put something, tracing film or some other type of plastic, over it until I am ready to work on it. I will re-case my project just before I place the plactic over it; and it will be ready to go the next day.

[leathernut]

i had only been doing leather work a few yrs.not long at all.but my two cents are,i take leather on the flesh side run warm water until its good and wet.stick in the fridge over nite in a plastic bag.and the next day when im gonna tool.let it return it to color and go ahead and tool.i was taught the warm water would pentatrate good.dont know if it does any better than cold water.works for me,happy usually way it comes out.

[The Major]

See this is the beautiful part about our craft/trade. There really are no right and wrong methods for doing most things. Just personal experiences and what works for you.

As far as casing goes, another thing to consider in your casing method is the quality of leather you are using. This plays a big bearing on how well it will take the casing solution.

[Go2Tex]

.........My work schedule is such that I find I can drop a piece in the tub in the evening before I hit the sack, take it out in the morning before I go to work, and have it ready to tool when I get home..........

Wow, now that's got to be some mushy leather if you soak it all night. Are you sure you didn't mean to say you drop in the tub, then put it in a sack until the next morning? What are you tooling, rawhide?

[Peter Ellis]

Wow, now that's got to be some mushy leather if you soak it all night. Are you sure you didn't mean to say you drop in the tub, then put it in a sack until the next morning? What are you tooling, rawhide?

Nope. Wrote what I meant. 12 hours after it comes out of the tub, I'm home from work and it's ready for me to tool. I frequently get about 19 functional hours out of a 24 hour day. No smiley for burning the candle at both ends and in the middle

[wolvenstien]

The thing with leather is that you immerse it until it stops bubbling like I do, and pull it out, or leave it in all nite it is going to absorbe the same amount of water... it cant absorbe more than it can.... so it wont be more soggy or mushy than it would be with just holding it under for several minutes until it stops bubbling... kind of like a sponge...

And yes, the quality of leather and thickness would have to do with casing methods too.... When I wrote this I did not take into account the differances in leather....

When working with older harder thick scrap that is hard to cut.... it is getting immersed... no question about it. But when working on fresh thiner leather like the piece of 3/4oz that I worked on tonight I will use the sponge.... wet it thichly, and flip it over and wet it thickly on the rough side.... let it go for 30-60 minutes and then ready to work on.... lately I have been working with nothing but 8/9 and 9/10 ounce and even though it is newer and very easy to cut, I immerse it and work with it the next day... I am working a piece tomorrow that I took pix of tonight before casing it..... the piece is 11 by 10 and has alot of branding on it.... I will take a few pix once I am done and it is dry and ready to be dyed and finished then again after finishing.... see what you think about the tooling depth and all from start to finish....

And Major, you are absolutely correct! thats why I love this place!

[skipj]

The thing with leather is that you immerse it until it stops bubbling like I do, and pull it out, or leave it in all nite it is going to absorbe the same amount of water... it cant absorbe more than it can.... so it wont be more soggy or mushy than it would be with just holding it under for several minutes until it stops bubbling... kind of like a sponge...

And yes, the quality of leather and thickness would have to do with casing methods too.... When I wrote this I did not take into account the differences in leather....

When working with older harder thick scrap that is hard to cut.... it is getting immersed... no question about it. But when working on fresh thiner leather like the piece of 3/4oz that I worked on tonight I will use the sponge.... wet it thichly, and flip it over and wet it thickly on the rough side.... let it go for 30-60 minutes and then ready to work on.... lately I have been working with nothing but 8/9 and 9/10 ounce and even though it is newer and very easy to cut, I immerse it and work with it the next day... I am working a piece tomorrow that I took pix of tonight before casing it..... the piece is 11 by 10 and has alot of branding on it.... I will take a few pix once I am done and it is dry and ready to be dyed and finished then again after finishing.... see what you think about the tooling depth and all from start to finish....

And Major, you are absolutely correct! thats why I love this place!

I'm curious about the "older harder" leather, I assume that it hardens as it ages. Is there any way to judge the "carveability" of a piece of leather before buying it, or do you just trust the source? As to casing, always a problem for me, would a wood moisture gage work? Perhaps sometime I blame my casing for problems when it's the quality of the leather that causes stamping and carving problems.

SkipJ

[abn]

I'm curious about the "older harder" leather, I assume that it hardens as it ages. Is there any way to judge the "carveability" of a piece of leather before buying it, or do you just trust the source?

Skip,

I'm not sure leather hardens with age, as long as it's properly conditioned, and leather usually doesn't sit around in a store long enough anyway. However, I've seen hard leather in my time, and I think the culprit was sunlight, which darkened it and made it a somewhat hard. If you're in the store, take a look at a number of sides. The lighter-colored ones should be softer and easier to tool... Stay away from the ones that are getting tan. You should be able to press a fingernail into the grain. If not, it's probably too hard.

That's just my experience in picking double shoulders from Tandy... Maybe someone else has some advice on this topic, too?

Regards, -Alex

[Go2Tex]

The thing with leather is that you immerse it until it stops bubbling like I do, and pull it out, or leave it in all nite it is going to absorbe the same amount of water... it cant absorbe more than it can....

Well, I guess that's true after a time. I have forgotten about a piece I was soaking and left it in for much longer than the time required for the bubbles to stop and it was much more soggy than normal. But I've never tried it all night.

You're probably correct about that sponge analogy but, frankly, once the bubbles stop, you really should be pulling it out, seems to me. Unless you're working in the Mojave, I can't see that piece being ready to tool for a couple days where I am.

Of course, in about 10 days, I'll be someplace HOT and humid so I have no idea what I'll experience there. Maybe somebody from South Texas can shed some light on this subject of drying times, eh?

[greg gomersall]

Go2tex when I lived in s.w. Alberta I could soak a chunk of skirting till it quit bubbling take it out and lay it on the bench all day, bag it when I went home for the night, unbag when I returned in the morning and it would be ready to go around 1 pm. When I moved to sw Idaho 6 years ago I had to relearn the process. Here the humidity is so much lower and a lot hotter temps, I wet a piece around 7 am and by early afternoon I better have my carving pattern ready cause the leather is. I'm sure you will find the humidity a bigger factor than the heat. Greg

[wolvenstien]

Greg, Tex, those are good points.... me being here int eh south east.... it is very humid... even more so than when I lived in Ohio.... or atleast it seems like it...

Anyway... here are a few pix of a piece I just finished... The piece of leather is 10x11 inch, 8/9oz with branding marks on it as you can see. I totally imersed it in water then let it sit out for about 26-27 hours... and put my pattern on it, then waited a little longer before I carved and tooled it.... it is a nice piece that was not mushy when i was working with it.... and I was very satisfied with the finished product....

Before Casing:

Ready to have the pattern added to it:

Here is the Carving before adding dye and color:

And here she is finished:

Edited July 22, 2007 by wolvenstien

[Beaverslayer]

Looks real good there Wolven, what did you use to dye it with? Is that the new Eco-Flo dyes?

Ken

[leathernut]

that came out real cool.love the color..

[wolvenstien]

thank you. the white and browns are cova color, and the green and yellow are tandy pro dyes....

[Luke Hatley]

thank you. the white and browns are cova color, and the green and yellow are tandy pro dyes....

WOLVENSTIENE.............A +, looks great.

[Mike Phelps]

I'm curious about the "older harder" leather, I assume that it hardens as it ages. Is there any way to judge the "carveability" of a piece of leather before buying it, or do you just trust the source? As to casing, always a problem for me, would a wood moisture gage work? Perhaps sometime I blame my casing for problems when it's the quality of the leather that causes stamping and carving problems.

SkipJ

I get the cheap saddle skirting from time to time from TLF and it will have areas, typically along the spine and butt, that are extremely hard. I've got some that I use for sandal soles. TLF even says can be used for sole and armour. You can feel these hard areas when you are at the store.

Lately I've had very good results casing with saddle soap followed by, when the leather has reached the right temper, burnishing with a hardwood 1"X4"X12" stick that I rounded the end and carved a handle on, really makes the grain of the leather stand out, then do the tooling. Burnishing this way you can repeat it several times and eliminate any desire to use antiquing stains or gels. Typical casing time on the 4-6oz leather I use for wallets and such is the time it takes to drink a soup mug of real good coffee. Then I burnish and do the stitch lines, cut and burnish the border lines. A good tool I've found for doing those are those Maple Popsicle sticks you can get in the craft section of your mega retailer. Down at the end where the stick starts getting round sand a nice taper with course then fine sandpaper. I get a deep rich tobacco brown color to all my creasing and stamping that I use on that weight leather. Casing with saddle soap makes things a little slippery but my results have been so good that I put up with it. Just set my stamps the way WC told me, get it where I want it, light tap with the maul to set it followed by a good lick.

I'll post some pictures when time permits me to post some usable images. My digital photographic skills ain't so good.

[Nocturne]

I saw in the other thread that some of you add a few drops of Dawn to your spray bottles...

What does this do? I'd never heard of doing this before.

Personally, I've tried the spray bottle, and find I do a better job of "casing" the rest of my work area than I do the leather. So for now, I do the ol' sponge in a bowl method. I've immersed pieces before, but never for more than a minute tops, and more often than not when my intent is to mold or form the leather, not carve it.

[robert]

Typically my casing is Baptist not Methodist - I immerse, not sprinkle

Sorry, couldnt help that...

my method is similar to some others on heavier leather (say 8 oz and up) - I immerse till the bubbles stop. I typically leave it in the open for an hour or two so that it isnt sopping wet, then put it in a bag in the refridge overnight. if i want to work on it before it is quite ready, i speed up the drying process with a blowdryer. as i work on it if it starts to get a bit dry, i spray the BACK of of the project with a spray bottle. That way the moisture wicks up evenly and you dont have to spray or sponge your tooling, causing that loss of definition.

[Billsotx]

Some, actually most, dish soaps have a water softener in them and that helps penetration. I've messed with a lot of ways to case, sometimes I use a spray bottle, sometimes a sponge, sometimes I'll dunk until it stop bubbling, I've left it for hours. My next step is it goes in a zip lock for 4 hours minimum. I've left it for 4 or 5 days, this evens out the moisture. When I get ready to tool, carve, mold whatever, I lay it out on the bench away from light, dirt, nosey passers-by and watch for the surface to just start to return to the original color, which is the key to when it right to carve, tool, shape, mold, etc. If I can't finish it, I spray it lightly, spray the inside of my bag a little bit and reseal it. Next session goes the same, if it's too wet looking I wait until it starts to return to the natural color and start working it at that point. Follow-up sessions usually return to natural color quicker that the first since it isn't resoaked. While I working it I rewet it with a sponge if I feel it getting dry. If you're paying attention and keeping your blade stropped you can feel it grab if it's getting to dry. If I'm working with dyed leather I depend on feel more that visual effect. Especially when molding; if you're pushing water out of it, it's too wet and it'll wrinkle and pickup all kinds of marks.

The quality of leather makes a difference. I've got a side that I was sold as good carving leather and you can't even stamp it. A hour or so after basketweaving it the impressions were faint. They next day there was hardly any impressions left. So yeah it makes a difference in quality.

There's a lot of ways to do this stuff and someone always forgets to mention something they do, some subtle thing. Repetition and careful attention to what does and doesn't work for you is key.

Most folks complain that their leather will mold if they leave it in a bag overnight. I don't have that problem. I can leave it in a bag under the workbench for 4 or 5 days, I've even left it a week. I think it's the water that causes the mold, but I have no way to prove that. I can tell you this. If you get mold on a piece that you've bagged, don't use that bag anymore. No matter how well you clean it, it'll spore mold from then on. You can't seem to clean it. I use all sizes of zip locks and I've had good luck with those and I've never worried about the plastic touching the leather. I was told that it should be wrapped in a brown paper before putting it in the bag because the plastic would cause mold. In my experience the brown bag caused the mold. I don't do that anymore.

[Cecil]

I live in florida and we have heat and humidity. I have had problems, with mold, when using a ziplock or plastic bag to store wet leather. The work I do is on smaller pieces, Belts, billfolds etc. I found that wrapping the leather tightly in Plastic Wrap seals it from the air. On a belt I can uncover a section as I work on it and recover it if I don't get the section finished. With this approach I only have to case the belt once and I have had no problem with mold.

It may just be my emagination, but the leather seams to behave differently when it is cased this way than with a sponge or spray bottle.

[steveb]

My technique - all wrong, but it works for me...i made it up cuz i didnt know better - and i still dont!

I rubbber cement my leather to xray film to keep it from deforming when tooling

I spray the leather with distilled water with a few drops of pro-carve...till damp, not wet

I take a wet "car waxing sponge" with saddle soap on it and give the leather a nice saddle soaping

Sometimes I slick the leather, sometimes I dont

The leather is lightly wet, but in no way soggy and is firm to the touch

i let it dry slightly

I draw my art/outline and by the time i am ready to tool, the leather is ready

if for some reason, i need to get up and say, go for a beer or chase a customer on the phone away, and the leather drys a little- I will shpritz it with my distilled water solution just a bit and let it dry some .

I never tool or carve wet or mushy leather, I like mine dry.

like I said - all wrong, but it works for me...i think it does anyway! lol

[Billsotx]

Where does one get xray film? I heard that before and it sounds like a good medium to prevent stretch.