Adler 105-8 Skipping Stiches On The 4Th Stitch

[buckow]

Hi everyone! I am new here and I think this is really a great forum. Thanks for all the good info.

I was sewing all day yesterday and having a good time. Then seemingly out of nowhere my Adler 105-8 started skipping stitches on the 4th stitch every time. I started looking to see if the timing was out and it seems good (I really wouldn't know but it looked fine to my untrained eye). The needle is grazing the shuttle it seems to me. The jump foot doesn't spring forward nearly as well as my 45k89 so I am thinking it might be that but it was sewing fine like that before. I thought it was an upper tension problem so I tried to help the slack for the loop to form and that helped a little. I don't remember doing anything that could have caused this but that is not saying much because I really don't have much experience.

From what I understand, I need to see if the hook is passing by the middle scarf on the needle when the needle is going back up? I need to look into the shim mounted to the shuttle carrier to see if it is the right one for the needle (160, 180, 200) and thread (138) I am using? Should I look into mounting a stiffer spring to get the pressure foot to return forward after each stitch?

Thanks again for the help. I really like these big old machines.

Edited September 23, 2011 by buckow

[Wizcrafts]

Hi everyone! I am new here and I think this is really a great forum. Thanks for all the good info.

I was sewing all day yesterday and having a good time. Then seemingly out of nowhere my Adler 105-8 started skipping stitches on the 4th stitch every time. I started looking to see if the timing was out and it seems good (I really wouldn't know but it looked fine to my untrained eye). The needle is grazing the shuttle pretty hard it seems to me. The jump foot doesn't spring forward nearly as well as my 45k89 so I am thinking it might be that but it was sewing fine like that before. I thought it was an upper tension problem so I tried to help the slack for the loop to form and that helped a little. I don't remember doing anything that could have caused this but that is not saying much because I really don't have much experience.

From what I understand, I need to see if the hook is passing by the middle scarf on the needle when the needle is going back up? I need to look into the shim mounted to the shuttle carrier to see if it is the right one for the needle (160, 180, 200) and thread (138) I am using? Should I look into mounting a stiffer spring to get the pressure foot to return forward after each stitch?

Change the needle first. It might be bent slightly, causing it to touch the pickup point.

The shim must match the largest needle you will use. If you move down more than 3 sizes, change to a smaller shim to match that new top size. I had no trouble with skipped stitches with my previous Adler 204, when moving down from a #25 needle with 277 thread to a #22 needle with138 thread. However, it wasn't as happy when I tried sewing with a #20 needle and #92 thread.

Another thing that causes occasional skipped stitches is when the needle gets stuck in the leather. This happens from friction, from a big needle and thread sewing dense leather. When the needle sticks on the way up the loop doesn't form on the bottom, leading to a skipped stitch. If this is happening on any sewing machine, tighten the pressure on the presser foot (or feet). I notice that when I use a left toe only presser foot, more pressure is required to hold down the work than with a double toe foot.

This holds true whether the machine is drop feed, jump foot, rolling feed, or walking foot. Even my Union Lockstitch machine will skip stitches (jammed awl) if I lighten the big pressure spring for a light job and forget to screw it back down for a thick job.

Does your machine have a snap foot outer foot? If so, you could either replace the foot spring with a new one that is stronger, or try bending the spring forward a bit. The snapping forward only occurs when the feed dog drops below the slot in the throat plate. If the foot suddenly stops snapping forward, it suggests that the feed dog is lingering too long. That would be something you could adjust with a big flat blade screwdriver, under the head. The dog should drop as soon as it fully reaches the back of its stitch length travel. The needle should have penetrated the material before the feed dog drops and the foot snaps forward. This is a timing issue.

[buckow]

Change the needle first. It might be bent slightly, causing it to touch the pickup point.

The shim must match the largest needle you will use. If you move down more than 3 sizes, change to a smaller shim to match that new top size. I had no trouble with skipped stitches with my previous Adler 204, when moving down from a #25 needle with 277 thread to a #22 needle with138 thread. However, it wasn't as happy when I tried sewing with a #20 needle and #92 thread.

Another thing that causes occasional skipped stitches is when the needle gets stuck in the leather. This happens from friction, from a big needle and thread sewing dense leather. When the needle sticks on the way up the loop doesn't form on the bottom, leading to a skipped stitch. If this is happening on any sewing machine, tighten the pressure on the presser foot (or feet). I notice that when I use a left toe only presser foot, more pressure is required to hold down the work than with a double toe foot.

This holds true whether the machine is drop feed, jump foot, rolling feed, or walking foot. Even my Union Lockstitch machine will skip stitches (jammed awl) if I lighten the big pressure spring for a light job and forget to screw it back down for a thick job.

Does your machine have a snap foot outer foot? If so, you could either replace the foot spring with a new one that is stronger, or try bending the spring forward a bit. The snapping forward only occurs when the feed dog drops below the slot in the throat plate. If the foot suddenly stops snapping forward, it suggests that the feed dog is lingering too long. That would be something you could adjust with a big flat blade screwdriver, under the head. The dog should drop as soon as it fully reaches the back of its stitch length travel. The needle should have penetrated the material before the feed dog drops and the foot snaps forward. This is a timing issue.

Thank you very much for the help.

I tried a 160 needle with a little bit less upper tension and it is now picking up stitches normally. With the 160 needle on it's own it was still skipping stitches but reducing the tension let the loop get just big enough. This leads me to believe it is a combination of issues and maybe the presser foot is not close enough to the needle on the upstroke. It doesn't stay forward with the needle and after 3-4 stitches it is at it's maximum position behind and stays there unless I lift the presser foot. It seems to be a "hop" foot and not a walking foot. There is a small spring inside the plates just behind the presser foot. Does this spring need to be firm like my 45k89?

On another note, I am a big mountain biker and here is a little video of me working on my patcher sewing a back protector for a bike site. Thought you might like to see it although it is in French. I grew up in Arizona but now live in Switzerland. http://www.bikekulture-mag.com/V2/Ben-Walker-Webisode-1-Ben-La.html

Thanks again Wiz!

[buckow]

Thank you very much for the help.

I tried a 160 needle with a little bit less upper tension and it is now picking up stitches normally. With the 160 needle on it's own it was still skipping stitches but reducing the tension let the loop get just big enough. This leads me to believe it is a combination of issues and maybe the presser foot is not close enough to the needle on the upstroke. It doesn't stay forward with the needle and after 3-4 stitches it is at it's maximum position behind and stays there unless I lift the presser foot. It seems to be a "hop" foot and not a walking foot. There is a small spring inside the plates just behind the presser foot. Does this spring need to be firm like my 45k89?

On another note, I am a big mountain biker and here is a little video of me working on my patcher sewing a back protector for a bike site. Thought you might like to see it although it is in French. I grew up in Arizona but now live in Switzerland. http://www.bikekultu...e-1-Ben-La.html

Thanks again Wiz!

Update:

It is sewing much better with the smaller needle but still missing stitches. I can't find a manual and I am not so sure I understand where the shims are to check/change them. The shuttle hook seems to have a lot of lateral play and it is only missing the loop by millimeters. I wonder if it is just due to a tired presser foot return spring and a little too much play in the shuttle hook assembly. If I have a manual I could maybe take it apart with a better chance of not messing up the timing. Does anyone have a manual for this machine?

Thanks,

Ben

Edited September 25, 2011 by buckow

[Wizcrafts]

Try slightly shortening the travel of the top thread's check spring. This is the spring that keeps the thread under suspension as the take-up lever moves downward. Too much travel will keep the thread under tension all the way down. It could even interfere with the forming of a loop for the pick-up point to grab off the eye of the needle.

Too little is counterproductive. There is a balance somewhere in between the extremes that should result in consistent stitches, without skipping.

If the check spring adjustment doesn't fix the problem, the timing of the shuttle is incorrect, or, the distance between the point and the needle is excessive. Normally, there is a shim in Adler shuttles, which spaces the pick-up point just far enough from the body of the needle to avoid contact (with the largest needle to be used). The shim is held in by two screws and has a number. That number represents the largest needle size to be used. You may have to remove the shuttle retainer ring to get to the shim. If the shim is a #200 (optimum for a #200 needle), and you are trying to sew with a #140 needle, you are pushing the envelope, clearance-wise. There is too much side space for the loop to be picked up, unless the loop is quite large.

The loop size can be affected by the needle's eye geometry, or the amount of travel the needle has when the pickup point reaches the center of the eye, or the size of the needle in relation to the size of the thread. To get a bigger loop, change to Schmetz needles. And/or reduce the check spring travel. The timing of the needle requires at least 3mm (1/8") upward motion to form a good loop. 3/16" is better, if you can get away with it. Then, the pick-up point must pass by the center of the loop, well above the eye hole. If the point is too close to the eye, skipped stitches are more likely, especially in reverse, or with long stitches.

Changing the stitch length affects the timing. Sewing in reverse exaggerates this affect. A marginally timed machine in forward sewing, with long stitches (4 or 5 per inch), may miss in reverse. You need a well timed hook to get your full range of feed motion, forward and backward, unless you use small stitches (6/inch or less).

Make sure the top thread isn't twisting loose in the tension disks. Likewise, make sure it isn't twisting into a bind, somewhere between the thread stand and the needle. Make sure the machine is well oiled, top and bottom. Oil the hook race.

I'm not certain if that machine model has a fixed position needle with a presser foot that follows the feed dog's rearward motion, or a moving needle and jumping foot. They are horses of a different color. An Adler 105-8 owner or dealer might know about this particular model. You shouldn't mess with the presser foot drive mechanism until you speak with somebody knowledgeable in this model.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Wizcrafts

[Wizcrafts]

Update:

The shuttle hook seems to have a lot of lateral play and it is only missing the loop by millimeters.

Thanks,

Ben

Excessive lateral motion in the shuttle is not good. You need to find out why it has so much noticeable lateral motion. Is it loose on the shuttle side (left), or the main machine side (right) of the body mounted bearing? Is the required spacer shim missing? Is there a shim, but too large of a size (over #200)? If the hook is loose, but the shaft itself has proper minimal lateral clearance, you will need to reposition the hook laterally, then time it to the needle's eye, then tighten it onto the shaft. Remove the throat plate to check this out and make your adjustments.

If the hook is tight and the timing of the needle is good and the shim is not too large (or missing), but the loops are too far from the point AND the shaft moves noticeably sideways, a set collar is loose on the right side of the machine mounted shaft bearing. Use caution before moving that shaft, as it also affects the parts that drive it on the far right underside of the body.

[Trox]

Excessive lateral motion in the shuttle is not good. You need to find out why it has so much noticeable lateral motion. Is it loose on the shuttle side (left), or the main machine side (right) of the body mounted bearing? Is the required spacer shim missing? Is there a shim, but too large of a size (over #200)? If the hook is loose, but the shaft itself has proper minimal lateral clearance, you will need to reposition the hook laterally, then time it to the needle's eye, then tighten it onto the shaft. Remove the throat plate to check this out and make your adjustments.

If the hook is tight and the timing of the needle is good and the shim is not too large (or missing), but the loops are too far from the point AND the shaft moves noticeably sideways, a set collar is loose on the right side of the machine mounted shaft bearing. Use caution before moving that shaft, as it also affects the parts that drive it on the far right underside of the body.

Hi Wiz,

The Adler needle shims has been the subject of many discussions lately. I have a few big Adler machines myself; a 204-64, a 105-25 and an old class 5-27. But none of them has this shim system. So I did some checking in the different part lists, according to them this system first came on the newer 205-370 and 204-370 generation machines. I never own one or had the pleasure of taking one apart that is why this shim system is new to me too.

I know it is a common rule to adjust the big older Adler’s with a (metric) size: 200 LR 328 needle, the space between the needle and the needle guard should be 0,2 mm. When the loop is been picked up, the shuttle tip should travel in the needle groove with a maximum play of 0,1 mm, but without deviating the needle.

This is according to the Adler service manual. The machine may need to be adjusted for a bigger needle. He had better check the play with needle he wants to use. I use needles from 160 to 230 without adjustment, and have no missing stitches or broken needles. So it is not that important and delicate.

He had also better make sure the shuttle rage and inner ring is clean, no thread pieces or dirt between them and the outer ring (Clean every part in the shuttle system). Mount it and tight the closing spring before making any adjustment.

Trox

[Trox]

Thank you very much for the help.

I tried a 160 needle with a little bit less upper tension and it is now picking up stitches normally. With the 160 needle on it's own it was still skipping stitches but reducing the tension let the loop get just big enough. This leads me to believe it is a combination of issues and maybe the presser foot is not close enough to the needle on the upstroke. It doesn't stay forward with the needle and after 3-4 stitches it is at it's maximum position behind and stays there unless I lift the presser foot. It seems to be a "hop" foot and not a walking foot. There is a small spring inside the plates just behind the presser foot. Does this spring need to be firm like my 45k89?

On another note, I am a big mountain biker and here is a little video of me working on my patcher sewing a back protector for a bike site. Thought you might like to see it although it is in French. I grew up in Arizona but now live in Switzerland. http://www.bikekultu...e-1-Ben-La.html

Thanks again Wiz!

Hi Buckow,

Is this Adler 105-8 machine new to you? You know you have to adjust the stroke height of the jump foot. In case not; the jump foot is adjustable on the front. You have to adjust it for every thickness of material, so it clears the material and spring forward with a “click”. If the foot does not jump back forward, it will not be able to hold down the material, the result will be skipped stitches. Adjust the height of the foot so it just clears the material. The foot is spring loaded, when it clears the material and moves forward you will here a “click”. If the spring is too lose, adjust the tension with the nut on the right side on the foot. The foot pressure is adjustable on the top front of the machine, it is important to have enough foot pressure to stop the material from moving when the needle is down forming the loop. (If too much foot pressure, the feed dog will make bad markings in the leather) Use a new needle the right size for you thread, try to get this settings right and report back here. If it still skipping stitches we will look at the adjustments of the needle and hook.

Best of luck,

Trox