Why The Difference?

[Wade D]

So I have two different pieces of leather. I really like how the back of the one type is, nice and smooth, and could likely use it without a lining, if I could find it in a heavier weight. Thing is, I'm afraid I'll get leather the way the second one looks, all weird.

Why is there the difference between the two? Is it just the brand? Is it a different process? Or is it just a different quality of leather?

The type I'm more fond of is that on the top.

[25b]

My wickett & craig bridle looks like the top one. Very smooth.

You could order bridle or harness sides. They seem to have better finished flesh sides, in my experience. I also buy tooling leather from them, but usually have them split it, so it's smooth too.

I think cheap, lower quality leather usually has really fuzzy flesh sides like the bottom one in your pic. Tandy tooling leather looks like that. That's why I generally don't buy leather from tandy. For belts, shoulder straps, etc, it works ok if you run it through a splitter. Or you could line it with other leather.

[Chief31794]

Wade,

Neither are really nice, get some Hermann Oak ©, the back is very tight and smooth. These look like they may have come from Tandy. Springfield Leather Company sells Hermann Oak by the sq ft in as little as 2 sq ft sections. It looks like these may be for a belt, if you want leather for a belt, you can buy Hermann Oak (HO) Straps (1-1/2", 1-1/4" or whatever width you want), if you are going to make several you can purchase a HO Single Belt Bend from SLC. If it's for a belt I would get 9/10 oz belt bend, if you want to buy the strap already cut it will be a 8/10 oz thickness. Hope this helps, the picture below shows how a HO backside looks, I don't have a picture of just the backside, but I think this shows it pretty well.

Chief

Edited August 6, 2015 by Chief31794

[Wade D]

Wow... yeah, that's pretty clean! Tight and smooth, indeed! Yes, they both came from Tandy. I can't remember the name of the bottom one, but the top is an Oak Leaf brand (is that Tandy specific?).

I'm looking because I plan on making holsters, and being that I'm just beginning, lining the holster has proven to be quite a bit of trouble, and the holster pouch never fits through the loops when I try to put it in (I'm referring to an integral loop vice riveted loop). Design flaw, material flaw, talent flaw, combination of all three, likely.

Thank you for the info!

[Wade D]

Sorry, 25b, when I clicked the link in my email, Chief's post was the only one I saw.

I guess if I'm going to be doing these to look nice, instead of just for practicing, then it looks like I'm going to have to end up buying better quality leather.

[25b]

Yeah, the tandy stuff is ok for practice or low budget items. For nice belts, straps, cases, things like that, Wickett & Craig or Hermann Oak will probably be your best bet.

I just ordered some Sedgwick bridle shoulder from Abbey England. Should be very nice from what I've read about it.

[Wade D]

I was just checking out the SLC and they have 1ftX2ft pieces of 9/10 oz HO leather for only $30..! I've heard plenty of good things about it. Maybe I'll end up buying a piece and giving it a shot!

[Thor]

Wade,

Neither are really nice, get some Hermann Oak ©, the back is very tight and smooth. These look like they may have come from Tandy. Springfield Leather Company sells Hermann Oak by the sq ft in as little as 2 sq ft sections. It looks like these may be for a belt, if you want leather for a belt, you can buy Hermann Oak (HO) Straps (1-1/2", 1-1/4" or whatever width you want), if you are going to make several you can purchase a HO Single Belt Bend from SLC. If it's for a belt I would get 9/10 oz belt bend, if you want to buy the strap already cut it will be a 8/10 oz thickness. Hope this helps, the picture below shows how a HO backside looks, I don't have a picture of just the backside, but I think this shows it pretty well.

Chief

Don't want to say that any of this is wrong. Personally I don't buy of Tandy. There's nothing I couldn't get in a better quality for the same or better price at a different place. That being said, better tanneries, make better leather, but the two pictures are showing leather from two different areas of a hide. While the top one is off of the side or the back (rather the side where it goes over to the belly), the bottom one is of the belly and it's kinda normal to get such fuzzy leather from this area. You just might have been gouged there. Belt leather should come out of the back area. If that's the case then the texture looks like the one on chief's picture. The neck area also serves for good belt leather, but stretches more than leather from the back.

[bruce johnson]

It looks to me like the top piece was split and the bottom piece is full thickness.

[JLSleather]

Those prices are $12-15 per foot! I guess I'm the only one thinks that insane.

Seriously, if you determined to use H.O. leather, the tannery sells it for UNDER $8 / ft. ANd that's the A-grade.

If you want GREAT leather, and don't want to buy 20 sides at a time, and dont' want to pay a FORTUNE, then I'd suggest you call Matt or Kylie at Wickett & Craig. GREAT leather, in natural tooling or drum dyed, Backs (I generally don't buy the belly portion) are under $10/ft, and NICE.

http://www.wickett-craig.com/preview.html

I don't do tandy at all. For a while, I might order there, but only if I was picking it in person. But last time I was in one, I went through a BUNCH of hides in several stacks just to find one that I could stand. No more.

I've ordered quite a few at Springfield, but not any more. I did get some decent leather, but it was always hit or miss - one hide is fine, the next one is junk.... that type of thing. They have always been willing to replace or refund a bad piece,but I simply can't be bothered to play "mail tag". If in the future I need one piece, I may call them. But they should know by now that if the piece isn't the one I asked for, they're getting it back. I mean, how hard is that.. no, sir, we do'nt currently have a piece of 7/8 oz HO tooling leather that's clean and firm. No harm no foul.

Did I already mention W/C?

[Wade D]

Don't want to say that any of this is wrong. Personally I don't buy of Tandy. There's nothing I couldn't get in a better quality for the same or better price at a different place. That being said, better tanneries, make better leather, but the two pictures are showing leather from two different areas of a hide. While the top one is off of the side or the back (rather the side where it goes over to the belly), the bottom one is of the belly and it's kinda normal to get such fuzzy leather from this area. You just might have been gouged there. Belt leather should come out of the back area. If that's the case then the texture looks like the one on chief's picture. The neck area also serves for good belt leather, but stretches more than leather from the back.

I'm not sure if it's just due to the location where the leather was on the cow. The entirety of the back sides of them are as they are in the photos. The top photo was supposed to be a "double shoulder," and it looked as if it did come from that area, or at the least, it had the same shape. The bottom part was either a double shoulder or a side, I don't remember which. But the back side of the whole piece from which I took the top photo's sample looks smooth like that, and the back side of the piece from which I took the bottom photo's sample is like that.

Bruce said it may be split, though I haven't the expertise to know what he's talking about. Did you mean split as in running it through the leather version of a planer?

Those prices are $12-15 per foot! I guess I'm the only one thinks that insane.

Seriously, if you determined to use H.O. leather, the tannery sells it for UNDER $8 / ft. ANd that's the A-grade.

If you want GREAT leather, and don't want to buy 20 sides at a time, and dont' want to pay a FORTUNE, then I'd suggest you call Matt or Kylie at Wickett & Craig. GREAT leather, in natural tooling or drum dyed, Backs (I generally don't buy the belly portion) are under $10/ft, and NICE.

http://www.wickett-craig.com/preview.html

I don't do tandy at all. For a while, I might order there, but only if I was picking it in person. But last time I was in one, I went through a BUNCH of hides in several stacks just to find one that I could stand. No more.

I've ordered quite a few at Springfield, but not any more. I did get some decent leather, but it was always hit or miss - one hide is fine, the next one is junk.... that type of thing. They have always been willing to replace or refund a bad piece,but I simply can't be bothered to play "mail tag". If in the future I need one piece, I may call them. But they should know by now that if the piece isn't the one I asked for, they're getting it back. I mean, how hard is that.. no, sir, we do'nt currently have a piece of 7/8 oz HO tooling leather that's clean and firm. No harm no foul.

Did I already mention W/C?

I checked out the W/C website, and the leather is quite expensive there, as well. If I bought a whole hide that averas 24 sqft at $8.45 per, that ends up being over $200... That's way more than I could afford. If I were to order 6 of those 1'x2' HO slabs, that's $180, and six holsters (I've really no interest now in making belts or other things). If I were to cut the leather from a whole hide to make six holsters, there would surely be a lot of scrap and remnants that ends up not being used. So it's kind of a toss-up. It's still only a hobby, I'm not really trying to sell the holsters or anything, so paying $30 for the leather to make the holster doesn't seem too bad.

(I'm referring to western holsters for SAA style revolvers, not the smaller pancake holsters for semi-autos)

[bruce johnson]

Yes, splitting means it has been thinned down by passing it through the leather business equivalent of a planer. The top piece has been split and to further complicate things - dry or wet splitting cam make different appearances too. Some tanneries or suppliers will level a side it might have areas of full flesh and split flesh on the same side. Others can buff the flesh side to make an even nap. Then there is pasted flesh where a treatment is done to smooth and somewhat seal the flesh side. The bottom piece is full thickness and the flakey looking pieces hanging off are tags that were not removed during the fleshing process prior to tanning. The bottom piece could clean up and be a better piece of leather than the top one. Personally I have never had the skills to judge a piece of a leather by a picture other than obvious scars, brands, holes, butcher cuts, or forklift tracks. I have had boardy or stretchy sides that look good and some good leather that doesn't appear that way. I was way better off to understand the general characteristics of a particular tannery's leather, accept that not every side is going to be A#1, and then deal with a supplier who understand my needs and tolerances.

[johnv474]

The top piece looks to have a sanded back. Tanneries will do this (at an additional expense) but sometimes the buyer doesn't want to pay for that. A sanded back is usually more consistent in its thickness as well, as it has been levelled off some. The Hermann Oak in the picture has surely had something similar done (sanded, if not pasted).

[nrk]

Yeah, the tandy stuff is ok for practice or low budget items. For nice belts, straps, cases, things like that, Wickett & Craig or Hermann Oak will probably be your best bet.

I just ordered some Sedgwick bridle shoulder from Abbey England. Should be very nice from what I've read about it.

true for Hermann Oak B grade sides and craftsman grade.

mostly use B grade HO Backs from Spriengfield - the flesh side is much better than Wade D showed on the picture.

attached photo of the mentioned HO backs

Edited October 5, 2015 by nrk

[Weaver Leather Supply]

If your using natural tooling leather it should be clean on the back. Neither pic of yours looks that nice, you don't want the fuzz. The natural strap from any reputable tannery should be split clean on the back. Skirting can look more like your second picture in areas as its full thickness. You can special order moss/pasted back from Hermann Oak which will be almost like a clear finish. If you want a drum dyed leather, you want something specifically with a finished back for clean flesh. We stock both Hermann Oak and Chahin strap, both will be split clean on the flesh sides.

[magsie]

So if you have a small piece that is full thickness and you don't have a splitter, what's the best way to smooth the back? Skiving, sanding? I'm asking as a total newb who doesn't have a lot of tools yet and who is trying to use every scrap of leather that I currently have for practicing.

[Weaver Leather Supply]

Splitting would obviously be the easiest. But I bet you could sand it. If you have an orbital palm sander or something similar I would try it and I bet it would smooth off the loose flesh.

[TinkerTailor]

For small pieces, and one off projects, I use an adjustable stitch groover to cut a grid of grooves to just shy of the final skive depth. Then with my 925 skife, i skive off the back until the grid lines dissappear. It actually goes really fast because the skife catches the edges of the grooves until the edges are gone. Try it on some scrap, you will see what i mean. I have even used double sided tape to tape down really stretchy soft leather to do this trick.

If you have ever seen how a log is traditionnal hewn square with an axe,the technique is similar. They chop notches all the way along to set depth and then go back and remove the wood between notches. It is also one of the ways luthiers set the shape of a vioin top, by drilling holes in a grid to the required depth and then carving till they are gone.

I use a v-gouge just like the osbourne adjustable type shown here:

http://www.zackwhite.com/Osborne-90-Adjustable-V-Gouge--OT12890_p_839.html

Mine is a vintage one made by Rampart tools. They may have invented this tool, and osbourne now has the rights. The one i have is patented.

Edited October 19, 2015 by TinkerTailor

[magsie]

Splitting would obviously be the easiest. But I bet you could sand it. If you have an orbital palm sander or something similar I would try it and I bet it would smooth off the loose flesh.

What grit would you recommend using?