New Dürkopp Adler 969 And 967 H Type Machines For X Heavy Work

[Trox]

Hello all sewing machine freaks.

I got an email from Thomas Brinkhoff: head of spare parts Dürkopp Adler(DA) today; about the new DA 969 H cylinderbed and 967 H flatbed machines.

These brand new H type machines are made for sewing extreme applications (such as our heavy leather work) and have a high foot lift of 30 mm. Uses a big shuttle hook and have many exiting new features. I do not know much about them yet, only what shows in their youtube video

http://www.duerkopp-adler.com/en/main/products/htype/969-190382.html

It seems like they have used the best from the 69 (60 series) and combined it with well proven arm and shuttle hook technology from the 205 class. I liked the little new hook thread guide/guard you see on the shuttle driver, that protects the thread from getting hooked by the bobbin spring. Why have not anybody thought about this before.

You can open the top of the head and get to the shafts, thats no reason for a all closed head like the old (read current) 205 and 441`s. It will still be a strong construction, the ones we uses today are more than hundred years old technology.

Never change a winning team/ construction, they say. When it comes to leather tools, OLD is GOOD. However, this new design looks good. Internal direct drive position motor of course, this is not news. The easy position adjustment wheel near the thread tensions are new (at least to me), I like this idea. This can also be used as an add on on any high end system motors (like Efka and Ho Sing, its a accurate pot meter connected to the motor control box).

As mention above I know very little about them and I have asked for more information, if I get it before its available on their web site; I will of course share it here.

It looks like DA has tried their best to make something for the saddler for a change, and its about time they did so too. The last one is a rebuilt needle feed from the 1980`ties (205-370), this is actually the first real triple feed X heavy cyl. bed machine Dürkopp Adler have ever made. Therefore, I hope they have made it affordable for the saddler too, I think they have to do just that to sell machines. Thats my opinion anyway, before knowing enough about them that is.

Anybody who have more info or opinions please let us know.

Thanks

Tor

[Trevor]

Nice machines. Love to own both of these but......HOW MUCH??? many $$$$$ I suspect from DA

[Trox]

Nice machines. Love to own both of these but......HOW MUCH??? many $$$$$ I suspect from DA

Well, there are Chinese business mens who are involved and they are making sewing machines to make money; to make money you need marked shares. The sewing machine dealers did not sell many heavy stitchers in the 6000 to 8000 $ range last year, it would not be smart to price them too high. They are made in China but they are new technology and the developments cost has to be covered. We cannot compare them to the cost of making copies without spare part programs. Its hard to predict what the price will be, even if its a product like no other it has to compete with whats on the marked today.

[The Dawg Club]

I hope the price is right too. I would love to own either one. My 867 feels great with this regular servo motor on it. Can't wait to get an Efka or Ho-sing for it. Please keep us updated with any info or price this machine might be.

Malik

[Constabulary]

Duuuuuude The Holy Grale of heavy duty sewing machines. Will this thing fly to the moon?

WOW - seems they have listen & learned. But thats far beyond from what I can afford. But an awesome machine with great features.

Question is will you ever get the money out of it with what you are producing on this machine?

[Trox]

If not all the way to the moon, is an impressing machine. Its being showed off on exhibitions as we speak, and it will be available for sales within a quarter of the year.

I do not know the price yet, the head of spare parts (Thomas Brinkhoff) ensures me that its parts will be affordable. I am talking about the price of accessories, hopefully it would not need much other parts yet.

I understand this have a bigger hook than todays standard (70% more capacity), 30 mm foot lift and can handle up thread size Nm 5/3 (tkt 5) TEX 600. It have 12 mm stitch length (15 on the flatbed) and a 12 mm sewing foot stroke (alternating height). We will get more information later and a comparison with Juki TSC 441.

If we read this data it has already out preformed the 441 and its leather clones. This is data direct from Dürkopp Adler who is known to be modest about their performance data. We have to remember the original Juki have only 20 mm foot lift, compared to that it a massive improvement. I know of no other cylinder bed (lock-stitch) who beats this data.

It looks to me that this machine do not need any modification, its all there from the factory. When it has a inbuilt motor it has to be prepared to plug and play direct in 110 V outlet too.

The only thing I know about the price is; that it is not built to compete with the clone machines.

I look forward to see it.

Thanks

Tor

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Yeah, saw this, too. Impressive looking machine, but 1st thing I though like many here "OK, what's the price?"

[Trox]

Yes that exiting, it will not be cheap. We will soon know the answer to this question.

Tor

[Singermania]

Well, there are Chinese business mens who are involved and they are making sewing machines to make money; to make money you need marked shares. The sewing machine dealers did not sell many heavy stitchers in the 6000 to 8000 $ range last year, it would not be smart to price them too high. They are made in China but they are new technology and the developments cost has to be covered. We cannot compare them to the cost of making copies without spare part programs. Its hard to predict what the price will be, even if its a product like no other it has to compete with whats on the marked today.

Hi Tor, so are you saying these new DAs are made in China to DA quality specs? Machines look nice, but maybe some of the ancillaries looked a bit Chinesie thin and looked like typical Chinese chrome work.... I hope DA is not going to produce a poor quality machine, if its in keeping with previous models with high quality metals and decent thicknesses of metal it will be a great thing. I would love to see one, if its quality is on a par with Seiko CH-8B and will sew thicker materials then I'm really pleased. Thanks for listing the videos.. really enjoyed them.. STeve

[Singermania]

This is my Adler-Kock 43-4 up the arm zig zag treadle machine, I've attached some photos to show the sort of quality that this company has produced in the past.....

oops looks like I put in a foto of an Adler 5-27 as well

[awharness]

That Adler looks like a step in the right direction for a shop that's big enough to need some automation, but small enough to have to keep the machine versatile! I would love to check one of these out!

[Trox]

Hello Steve, Thanks for showing those old beauties, we both know that quality will never come back to us. Looking good that 43, I too have a 5-27. I use it as an backup machine, its a very nice machine.

Back to todays world of sewing machines. I am not sure of the production site of these new machines. I know they produce several classes in joint operations in China, France and perhaps Italy. They also have a factory in Czech Republic ( Minerva), they produced the big 204/205 machines there and now the new M type there. You know Czech Republic had the world best factories of technical stuff, like guns, tools etc. The best German guns from the WW2 came from there. The Da company still is located in Bilefeld, Germany. I believe they have their quality control there.

I believe DA still have a very strict quality control too. Even when Chinese business mens have bought parts of the company (and control it), its in nobodies interest to ruin the brand. The Chinese's Shanggong group is a holding company that owns several Chinese sewing machine companies, and are the subsidiary owner (with more than 50% of the shares) of the DA group, Pfaff and KSL special machines. The German companies still operates in Germany and follow German laws.

I cannot find any info on where these new H types are produced, I see they use several parts from the M type. I will ask about it when I get more info from Thomas Brinkhoff. I still look upon DA to be a German sewing machine company. I look forward to try this new machine with a electronic hand wheel and integrated new DA motor. It has an impressive capacity, it can sew very thick and still handle delicate operations such in a saddlery. It will sew much thicker material than the Seiko CH-8b who only have 20 mm foot lift (969 H has 30 mm foot lift) and do it much faster too. The machine is currently in exhibitions and soon in the show rooms to try out.

I look forward to it

Tor

[Trox]

By the looks of it its only the new DA 267-373 (made after 2003) and the DA 069 (same as the old 69) of the DA`s heavy machines (triple feeds) who is made in China. Some overlocks and special machines. The rest of the machines made in China are textile machines. All other leather related machines are made of Czech Minerva. This is what it looks like reading their websites anyway. With Pfaff there is an other story I think.

Tor

[Singermania]

HI Tor, no way am I going to remember all that information, but still I really enjoy reading your messages., your knowledge of these machines is fantastic. Did you see I put on the info re the manuals for the Adler 20 series if you dont have them? There seems to be a great variety of leather worker out there. A lot of people I deal with want slow machines like the Pearson no 6, they just wouldn't use anything else, and then others say that they are just too slow and go for the 441s and Adlers and Seikos. When you say these new machines are faster than the Seiko CH-8B I just wonder what sort of work you would be doing to do that speed..... as I would rarely even run a no 6 up to it max speed let alone a Seiko or 441.

There is no doubt in my mind that machines that will sew over the inch (25mm) are in demand, I often have people asking for this ability, I have the Pearsons that will go up to an inch and the Singer 97s that will just top over the inch... all the other older machines that I am aware of.. Champions, Koch, Campbell-Randall, Union Lockstitch and so on wont go beyond about 3/4".

Tor, do you have any contacts for big needles??? in particular the needles for Singer 97 and the Singer 7 class 1000 needle ??

I was told that Beiler's in Pennsylvania did the 97 needle, but I can't find an email address for them.

Regards Steve

[Trox]

Thank you Steve, I too prefer to go slow on my 441 machine. When I talk about speed this is for factory purpose. What the new 967 and 969 H machines will do remains to see, the data's looks very promising. Yes I saw something about the class 7 in that thread, but I am not sure if thats what you meant. Can you direct me to your post please.

I do not use these big needles myself; I think Bob Kowar (Cowboy Bob) might have some 1000 needles in stock. I am not sure, ask him. I got an very nice deal on an Fortuna band knife splitter here two day ago, and got an old Adler class 5-25 on the deal. It was stuck, rusted. I lubricated it with some paraffin (lamp oil) and it turned after a few minutes. It still have some rust inside (I do not know why), I think it have to be soaked in diesel for some days. It turns fine and look very good. Its a top and bottom feed machine.

Regards

Tor

[Singermania]

HI Tor,

Thanks for that, I'll see if I can track down Bob, I've put requests on leather worker a few times for needles though and nobody has replied. I the manuals are for the Adler Durkopp 20 series. Regards STeve

[RoyalLeatherDesigns]

Tor,

When will we know the price of this machine and when will it be available to purchase if youmdont know the exact price yet what do you think these will cost ball park.

Thanks you,

Ralph Garcia

[Trox]

Hello Ralph, I do not know anything more about the new machine yet. They promised to inform me and that have not happen yet.

Thanks

Tor

[Techsew Ron]

An Adler representative showed me these machines at a recent show. Really nice!

[Trox]

Update:

The new Durkopp Adler 967 H flatbed is out for sale in the shops now and the 969 H cylinder bed will follow soon. I have no price yet, but check with your closest DA dealer.

The head of DA spare part, Thomas Brinkhoff warrants me that this machine is entirely made in Europe.

I quote:

"Here are also some comparisons between Durkopp Adler class 204 and the new 967:

Workspace: +65%
Stitch length: +25%
Foot lift: +50%
Material thickness that can be sewn: +30%
Foot stroke: +20%
Bobbin capacity: +70%
Sewing speed: +56%

Further, there are all the new features like automatic lubrication, integrated stitch length adjustment, quick stroke adjustment, thread trimmer with 40mm remaining ends, 2nd pneumatic thread tension, jog-dial hand wheel with power stitch function (Move the machine with your fingertip!), integrated, motor driven bobbin winder, multifunctional operation panel, integrated keypad, integrated LED sewing light and integrated Dürkopp Adler sewing drive and control.

It is a new concept with outstanding features for customers with very difficult and thick materials with highest quality and productivity requirements."

http://www.duerkopp-adler.com/en/main/products/htype/index.html

He hopes nobody will start to compare these new machines with copies of old Adler and Juki machines, he clearly have a point there.

I also tells me the "postbed version will follow in the next months". (I am not sure if it should be the cylinder bed version or not, thats what we all are waiting for anyway).

I be back with more info if and when I have it.

Thanks

Tor

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Right, I just spoke with Don Ullrich at Durkopp Adler America, he is working on pricing for both the H and Eco models of this machine with two different price points and features.

[Trox]

Thanks Greg, I look forward to hear what price level they will be at. I am afraid it will be out of reach for my small shop, thought.

Tor

[Uwe]

Here we are in 2015 and apparently it's still a secret how much these machines cost. I'm going to Germany in March. Maybe I'll take a road trip to the DA headquarters and sit in the lobby until they tell me.

[Uwe]

I finally came across a website (http://www.np-z.de/969-190382.html) that has a price stated. Apparently it starts around 10,000 Euro in Germany, which is just shy of $12K at current, lowest-in-nine-years, exchange rates. But 19% of that price is VAT tax, so it's practically a bargain! Now I just have to check if it'll fit in the overhead bin on my plane, haha.

[kentharald]

Regarding production facilities to DA, I came across this on their website:

Besides the production plant in Bielefeld, Germany, Dürkopp Adler AG owns two other production facilities. One is Minerva Boskovice in Czech Republic, where all the medium to heavy duty machines are produced, the second facility is located in Sangeorgiu de Mures, Romania. This plant is totally dedicated to the production of genuine Dürkopp Adler spare parts for production as well as after sales service. With our owner, the SGSB Group Dürkopp Adler AG has a strong partner for further development. As a first step, Dürkopp Adler AG and SGSB Group founded a production joint venture in Shanghai, China, in order to have a better market coverage in China and Southeast Asia. This production joint venture is also providing a small part of basic machines to Dürkopp Adler AG.

Looks like the medium to heavy machines will still carry Czech/German QC