Gum Trag Resists?

[renegadelizard]

Hey all...i ran into an interesting issue last night...i was making a few western rigs...nothing fancy, no tooling, and for some reason (probably becuase im new to thins and still wet behind the ears), i decided to edge the holsters before spraying with dye..now that i have sprayed it, it looks like i got some gum trag slopped around on the holster and the dyde will not take to it...it looks like poop..well, kind of red when it should be brown, but you get the idea...are these now scrap bin stuffers or is there a way to recover these holsters?

[mlapaglia]

My thought would be to deglaze the area and try to redye it. It looks like you used a air brush. If so that will make it easier for touch ups. Dont try this until someone else chimes in. I could be totally wrong. Or make a test piece and try that first.

As you now know. Gum trag last.

[Sixer]

I've done this before... Gum Trag is not my friend. Honestly, I don't think I'll use it again.

[renegadelizard]

I've done this before... Gum Trag is not my friend. Honestly, I don't think I'll use it again.

i tried to vinegaroon the edges and then fade in with black dye....fail...then vinegrooned the entire thing...its black but you can still see a gloss difference where i tried to fade in with the black dye...so, they will become knife sheaths and other small little pieces....back to cutting and awl punching,....grrr...henceforth, gum trag is a foul word in my house...

[chiefjason]

I've taken to burnishing with water only or water, soap, and wax. It works well IMO. I finally settled on a wax that I melted together; 50/50 beeswax and paraffin. I generally have problems getting burnished edges to take vinagroon. But I burnished with just water tonight and the groon took just fine. One more lesson learned. I'll let them dry then wax and burnish again. I'm hoping they turn out as nice as I think they will.

[Sylvia]

Hey all...i ran into an interesting issue last night...i was making a few western rigs...nothing fancy, no tooling, and for some reason (probably becuase im new to thins and still wet behind the ears), i decided to edge the holsters before spraying with dye..now that i have sprayed it, it looks like i got some gum trag slopped around on the holster and the dyde will not take to it...it looks like poop..well, kind of red when it should be brown, but you get the idea...are these now scrap bin stuffers or is there a way to recover these holsters?

Yes, Gum Trag will do that. My local Tandy warned me about it when I ordered mine. It looks like you might have used a brush to apply it... I only use my finger and I have a paper towel handy to wipe my finger as a need to. I even found a recipe some where for a dye resist that takes Gum T and Sulfur to resist indigo dye.

When I've had trouble with mine... either slipped or got a darned finger print... I've taken action right away with Fiebings Dye Prep,(everclear booze, sudsy ammonia mixed with water) then deglazer with a cotton swab. When it's dry I touched up the color. I don't know how it will work with well dried dye though.

Good luck.

[katsass]

Hey all...i ran into an interesting issue last night...i was making a few western rigs...nothing fancy, no tooling, and for some reason (probably becuase im new to thins and still wet behind the ears), i decided to edge the holsters before spraying with dye..now that i have sprayed it, it looks like i got some gum trag slopped around on the holster and the dyde will not take to it...it looks like poop..well, kind of red when it should be brown, but you get the idea...are these now scrap bin stuffers or is there a way to recover these holsters?

FWIW from the old grump: I'd try to clean the whole thing with just water first --- damp washcloth, rub briskly. When dry, use some denatured alcohol --- that MAY work. If so, hit it again with the airbrush.

As to edge burnishing, I burnish with water first --- allow to dry then re-sand as necessary with very fine sandpaper --- by hand. Re-burnish with water and a touch of glycerin soap (wet your finger(s), rub 'em on the bar of soap then rub them on the edge to be burnished). Burnish and allow to dry. Polish. I use a home made polish 'wheel' made from a 3/8" bolt and a long strip off of a pair of worn out Levi's. Glue one end down on the bolt and wrap it tight and glue the loose end down --- pay attention to which way the drill turns.. Stick it in your 3/8" drill --- lock that puppy down in a vice and go to town. Apply dye or just finish. I happen to use Neutrogena bar soap, it's easily available damned near anywhere. A pic of a burnished, polished, and finished edge. Gum Trag is like Edge Coat to me ---- NASTY, NASTY stuff. Used to solve a non-existent problem. Mike

Edited June 9, 2012 by katsass

[renegadelizard]

FWIW from the old grump: I'd try to clean the whole thing with just water first --- damp washcloth, rub briskly. When dry, use some denatured alcohol --- that MAY work. If so, hit it again with the airbrush.

As to edge burnishing, I burnish with water first --- allow to dry then re-sand as necessary with very fine sandpaper --- by hand. Re-burnish with water and a touch of glycerin soap (wet your finger(s), rub 'em on the bar of soap then rub them on the edge to be burnished). Burnish and allow to dry. Polish. I use a home made polish 'wheel' made from a 3/8" bolt and a long strip off of a pair of worn out Levi's. Glue one end down on the bolt and wrap it tight and glue the loose end down --- pay attention to which way the drill turns.. Stick it in your 3/8" drill --- lock that puppy down in a vice and go to town. Apply dye or just finish. I happen to use Neutrogena bar soap, it's easily available damned near anywhere. A pic of a burnished, polished, and finished edge. Gum Trag is like Edge Coat to me ---- NASTY, NASTY stuff. Used to solve a non-existent problem. Mike

I agree completely. I'll not be using it again. For now, I solved the problem with vinegaroon. The holsters came out okay, but my hands were brown from it. Is that normal?.

[katsass]

I agree completely. I'll not be using it again. For now, I solved the problem with vinegaroon. The holsters came out okay, but my hands were brown from it. Is that normal?.

Yes. It'll wear off in a week or two. Wear nitrile gloves. Mike

[chiefjason]

I agree completely. I'll not be using it again. For now, I solved the problem with vinegaroon. The holsters came out okay, but my hands were brown from it. Is that normal?.

Sorta. If you let it set and all the particulates fall out, then no stain. If you shake it up, it will stain. Even straining it through coffee filters will not get all the particulates out for me. I have to let it sit. Then carefully dip a brush in and not stir it up. It's the junk in the mixture that stains. The liquid itself will not. At least, that's my experience. Now, sometimes in the process of working with the wet grooned leather I will get some black rubbing off on my hands. Gloves would fix that, but I just hate gloves.

I like the wrapped denim idea. Going to have to try that too. I've got some stapled to a section of quarter round that I burnish with by hand.

[katsass]

Sorta. If you let it set and all the particulates fall out, then no stain. If you shake it up, it will stain. Even straining it through coffee filters will not get all the particulates out for me. I have to let it sit. Then carefully dip a brush in and not stir it up. It's the junk in the mixture that stains. The liquid itself will not. At least, that's my experience. Now, sometimes in the process of working with the wet grooned leather I will get some black rubbing off on my hands. Gloves would fix that, but I just hate gloves.

I like the wrapped denim idea. Going to have to try that too. I've got some stapled to a section of quarter round that I burnish with by hand.

chiefjason, you're kinda right. Vinegaroon is a mild form of ferrous or ferric (I forget my chemistry class stuff) acetate which has been used to stain wood and a number of other things for centuries. I think that the first mention of it is from the1600s. It'll stain cloth, wood (as said) and your hands. It works as a chemical reaction on the material it hits. Mike

[chiefjason]

In my experience it's been hit or miss. If the groon is clean I don't have a problem. If the junk on the bottom starts lifting then that definitely stains my hands, shirt, whatever it gets on. But my hands stay kind of grungy and dirty from work so maybe I just don't notice. It's not been problematic enough for me to glove up. But the edges of my fingernails and any rough skin pick up either the groon itself or black residue off the leather. It makes me look like I'm a real leatherworker though.

[Sylvia]

Gentlemen: From reading and OLD turn of the 20th century book... it says to draw off the clear liquid after your vinegaroon has settled. Used a turkey baster.... or siphon it off, into a different container.

[chiefjason]

Sylvia, I keep meaning to but have not gotten around to it. I just strained a new batch so maybe it's time to start. I have to say this batch hardly even smelled and was pretty clear. I let it brew outside in the sun for a few weeks though.

[renegadelizard]

Gentlemen: From reading and OLD turn of the 20th century book... it says to draw off the clear liquid after your vinegaroon has settled. Used a turkey baster.... or siphon it off, into a different container.

Good tip!...Also, will the smooth side of vinegrooned leather hold contact cement?....I have decided to do some elephant trip on these to make them a bit more special...