I Need Some Help Please

[DoubleC]

won't go into whole story other than a friend and I decided to start a equine related leather business. It took my partner some time to really get into the idea, but once she did, she really did. She bought 5 tack sets, headstalls and breast collars. They looked nice on the website but when they came before i went to visit her, well when I looked at them I coulda cried. The two dark oil look a little nicer, except the pieces aren't exactly the same color, but the three natural sets she bought are actually yellow, pieced, not sewn. AND they aren't from America which is what we're all about.

Well the day before I left to come home I ended up buying a black tack set on eBay, new, bridle, reins, breast collar for 20.50 and then kicked myself for days thinking my luck it would be just like the sets she bought.

It's not, it's well put together, and has basket weaving tooling on it, the only problem is the dye didn't cover all over. I didn't realize this area of the forum existed, Dwight sent me.

He recommended I use USMC black instead of oil, and Resolene to protect it. Then he got to thinking about it, and said maybe Resolene might not be the best finish and to come here and ask.

Meanwhile I've started painting one of the yellow sets and I initially let it dry overnight, then twisted and turned the brow pieces I had started on to make sure it was going to peel, etc. But now I'm thinking maybe I should cover it with something when I'm done too. I've attached photos, can anyone help?

[catskin]

won't go into whole story other than a friend and I decided to start a equine related leather business. It took my partner some time to really get into the idea, but once she did, she really did. She bought 5 tack sets, headstalls and breast collars. They looked nice on the website but when they came before i went to visit her, well when I looked at them I coulda cried. The two dark oil look a little nicer, except the pieces aren't exactly the same color, but the three natural sets she bought are actually yellow, pieced, not sewn. AND they aren't from America which is what we're all about.

Well the day before I left to come home I ended up buying a black tack set on eBay, new, bridle, reins, breast collar for 20.50 and then kicked myself for days thinking my luck it would be just like the sets she bought.

It's not, it's well put together, and has basket weaving tooling on it, the only problem is the dye didn't cover all over. I didn't realize this area of the forum existed, Dwight sent me.

He recommended I use USMC black instead of oil, and Resolene to protect it. Then he got to thinking about it, and said maybe Resolene might not be the best finish and to come here and ask.

Meanwhile I've started painting one of the yellow sets and I initially let it dry overnight, then twisted and turned the brow pieces I had started on to make sure it was going to peel, etc. But now I'm thinking maybe I should cover it with something when I'm done too. I've attached photos, can anyone help?

I gather you not making this tack just buying cheap tack and jassing it up. What kind of paint are you using? Most paint will harm the leather if it isn't special made for leather. So if the paint is wrong nothing will protect it. Edited January 4, 2012 by catskin

[DoubleC]

I gather you not making this tack just buying cheap tack and jassing it up. What kind of paint are you using? Most paint will harm the leather if it isn't special made for leather. So if the paint is wrong nothing will protect it.

I don't think I expressed myself well Catskin. My partner bought these inexpensively on sale because I was going to visit her and she wanted something there to basically seal the deal. She didn't know there were more then inexpensive, but also cheap. She bought them from a reputable dealer and online they looked nice. She even bought herself a set.

When they got there, she took her set out to 'air' which still didn't tip her off, glanced at the other stuff, put them back in the bags and back in the box. When I got there, I took the first 'natural' set out, looked at it all over, and said, 'you didn't noticed this is uh, yellow?' She just looked at me funny. Then I said, 'this is a harder question but did you notice where they tried to hide the stamped India on the breast collar?' She grabbed it away from me, found the mark and I thought she was going to cry. Especially since we are all about buy American.

No we are not buying cheap tack and jazzing it up. It was an unfortunate mistake where a 'reputable' dealer bought some cheap tack, and passed it on as an incredible Christmas sale and my partner bought it. And now I'm stuck with the unfortunate task of trying to make it look good enough someone won't be ashamed to use it. We are NOT going to list it as anything other than what it is, made in India. It's sturdy, and it's painting up nice, although it's taking 3 coats to cover. Already finished off leather is hard to work with. You have to understand that was in the infancy of our planning the business, and we're now in the toddler stages.

I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to make my own tack. I have downloaded and read everything here that I could, read forums, and taken notes, and unfortunately spent more time here than working on the tack. All we want to do is make these sets nice enough that people with the facts will buy them and we can get our money back so I can buy my resellers license and leather.

I'm putting more time and money into the set than what I should but even though we could eat what we paid for these, I just can't waste things. I've been on disability for a long time and it's become a habit. The 'jazz' I'm putting on it is vintage baby blue and white milk glass connector beads, and vintage Swarovski navettes. I paid quite a bit for these as conchos decorations when that's all I was doing, making my own leather conchos. I'm attaching a picture of the design I came up with. Nothing leaves my house until I have it as nice and everything's as perfect on it as I can make it.

I'm using leather Eco-Flo paint from Tandy. So do you think Resolene will finish it off?

As an aside, the black set is now selling for 3 times as much on eBay although I noticed he's staying away from black. I took one of my white sox last night and rubbed it a little and the black is still coming off. I think the seller is making these and selling them, and it is a very nice set he didn't finish well, got frustrated with, and just wanted to get his money back I imagine. The design is crisp, and the leather is very soft and supple. It's NOT from India and after I put some work into it, is going to be a beautiful set. I plan to just work on it at nights watching TV, rubbing, rubbing, and rubbing some more after I let the new coat of USMC black dry. From some of the threads I've read, the black coming off is a common problem so this will be a longer project until I get all the dye rubbed in well, rhinestones added, and a coat of Resolene on it, but it's going to be a beauty.

The picture is dark because I turned my flash off. With the flash you couldn't see the milk glass and navettes. But it's the Royal Blue Eco-Flo, and I'm painting the leather keepers white, also Eco-Flo

Thanks for taking time to write, Cheryl

[pete]

I still don't "get it".. sorry..... why don't you make your own tack, start out small with the finest leather and hardware and quality dyes and see where it goes from there?

From what I have read so far- there isn't a market for your things from any "hand" worth their salt. This sounds like fancy showy stuff, and from one who had years of working with and for those folks, they want top quality, even if it is so flashy that a cowman wouldn't be caught dead with it.

You might have a business there but you need to take a breather and figure out what YOU want to do and if there IS a market to make it profitable. Don't look at what you've spent in time and money already and try to make THAT your mission.

We've ALL made costly mistakes and wrong turns here but cut our losses and re-focused.

pete

[DoubleC]

I still don't "get it".. sorry..... why don't you make your own tack, start out small with the finest leather and hardware and quality dyes and see where it goes from there?

From what I have read so far- there isn't a market for your things from any "hand" worth their salt. This sounds like fancy showy stuff, and from one who had years of working with and for those folks, they want top quality, even if it is so flashy that a cowman wouldn't be caught dead with it.

You might have a business there but you need to take a breather and figure out what YOU want to do and if there IS a market to make it profitable. Don't look at what you've spent in time and money already and try to make THAT your mission.

We've ALL made costly mistakes and wrong turns here but cut our losses and re-focused.

pete

You know Pete, I think that's wise advice. I can honestly say that every minute I put into this makes me madder and madder. And I don't want to 'waste' what I added up as around 22.00 of the nicest vintage 'bling' I have on this set. As far as I'm concerned, we could finish it up with just some paint, and maybe some of my conchos (that's how I started in leather work) and give it away to some people for testimonials as to the work I did on it, not the tack itself. Because it would be fine for training tack, etc. or even trail riding tack when you want to look good without bringing out your best stuff, gonna rain, etc. I think the testimonials would be worth more than what we could ever sell this for. I just wanted so much to make this better for Lacey because she's my friend, not just my partner. I know what I want to do. I want to make my own tack using good leather, and good hardware, and good and hopefully with help here to become better tooling, designing and carving. Thanks for answering me Pete. I'm going to copy and paste this to Lace and see how she responds. Cheryl

[Sylvia]

You know Pete, I think that's wise advice. I can honestly say that every minute I put into this makes me madder and madder. And I don't want to 'waste' what I added up as around 22.00 of the nicest vintage 'bling' I have on this set. As far as I'm concerned, we could finish it up with just some paint, and maybe some of my conchos (that's how I started in leather work) and give it away to some people for testimonials as to the work I did on it, not the tack itself. Because it would be fine for training tack, etc. or even trail riding tack when you want to look good without bringing out your best stuff, gonna rain, etc. I think the testimonials would be worth more than what we could ever sell this for. I just wanted so much to make this better for Lacey because she's my friend, not just my partner. I know what I want to do. I want to make my own tack using good leather, and good hardware, and good and hopefully with help here to become better tooling, designing and carving. Thanks for answering me Pete. I'm going to copy and paste this to Lace and see how she responds. Cheryl

Cheryl:

I don't think it's a waste. It's 2 things to me.

1. It's a tack pattern to take and improve upon (I always trace a pattern from "kits", and I take apart pre-made clothing to take a pattern from that too)

2. It's an educational experience. (Live and learn I say. It was an expensive lesson, but so is a college education. You learned and I think that is a good thing!)

I don't think I would put your bling on it at all. I would just paint it up and sell it as a "customized" one made in India. Get it out of your hair. Someone will buy it.

[DoubleC]

Cheryl:

I don't think it's a waste. It's 2 things to me.

1. It's a tack pattern to take and improve upon (I always trace a pattern from "kits", and I take apart pre-made clothing to take a pattern from that too)

2. It's an educational experience. (Live and learn I say. It was an expensive lesson, but so is a college education. You learned and I think that is a good thing!)

I don't think I would put your bling on it at all. I would just paint it up and sell it as a "customized" one made in India. Get it out of your hair. Someone will buy it.

I wish it was that simple Sylvia. What makes me angry is it wasn't even that EXPENSIVE a mistake, around $120.00 for all the stuff, but my friend and partner isn't speaking to me currently. She works at home on a high pressure job, and things are crap for her right now, and when she sent me like the third email of the day that said, 'whatever floats your boat' I'm afraid I wasn't too understanding. I offered to finish it and find someone who could give us a GOOD testimonial from this area, someone respected in our little corner of the world, and she said she wasn't giving it away. I said, 'ok, I'll finish it and we can sell it with an honest description on eBay, just not under the company name.' Nope, wants me to send it all back, says she'll sell it this summer trail riding, etc. When I asked her if she still wanted me to paint the leather keepers white is when she sent that response. I got on AIM, which I should have done some deep breathing first, or taken a walk or something.....and said what didn't float my boat was her attitude. She said it wasn't a long term solution but had been intended to help me get the business started. I said uh, 'help me? Let's see, I buy all the unfun stuff like dyes, paint and tools, etc and have spent as much as you have. so now you're getting the tack back, plus my time, AND I'm paying to ship it? What part of that is helping me?' I so wish I could take it back now but it just came out. And now she won't talk to me, on AIM or the phone. I was just so frustrated because i was trying to find some solution to the problem and had told her, she got ripped off by what is considered a reputable company, and I was willing to eat the costs with her, we were in this together. So at this point Sylvia, I'm finishing the blue set, should only take a couple days even if I'm extremely slow. I'm sending it back. I left a message on her phone I'd be here when she was ready to talk, and I'm moving forward. Just because the work occupies my time AND mind and I'm not mad. Confused, weird, crazy, and frustrated, but not mad. I totally agree with you, SOMEONE will buy a royal blue set of painted tack, even from India, but can you understand why I don't want that to be the first product Double C sells?

[Sylvia]

I wish it was that simple Sylvia. What makes me angry is it wasn't even that EXPENSIVE a mistake, around $120.00 for all the stuff, but my friend and partner isn't speaking to me currently. She works at home on a high pressure job, and things are crap for her right now, and when she sent me like the third email of the day that said, 'whatever floats your boat' I'm afraid I wasn't too understanding. I offered to finish it and find someone who could give us a GOOD testimonial from this area, someone respected in our little corner of the world, and she said she wasn't giving it away. I said, 'ok, I'll finish it and we can sell it with an honest description on eBay, just not under the company name.' Nope, wants me to send it all back, says she'll sell it this summer trail riding, etc. When I asked her if she still wanted me to paint the leather keepers white is when she sent that response. I got on AIM, which I should have done some deep breathing first, or taken a walk or something.....and said what didn't float my boat was her attitude. She said it wasn't a long term solution but had been intended to help me get the business started. I said uh, 'help me? Let's see, I buy all the unfun stuff like dyes, paint and tools, etc and have spent as much as you have. so now you're getting the tack back, plus my time, AND I'm paying to ship it? What part of that is helping me?' I so wish I could take it back now but it just came out. And now she won't talk to me, on AIM or the phone. I was just so frustrated because i was trying to find some solution to the problem and had told her, she got ripped off by what is considered a reputable company, and I was willing to eat the costs with her, we were in this together. So at this point Sylvia, I'm finishing the blue set, should only take a couple days even if I'm extremely slow. I'm sending it back. I left a message on her phone I'd be here when she was ready to talk, and I'm moving forward. Just because the work occupies my time AND mind and I'm not mad. Confused, weird, crazy, and frustrated, but not mad. I totally agree with you, SOMEONE will buy a royal blue set of painted tack, even from India, but can you understand why I don't want that to be the first product Double C sells?

(((HUGS)))

Of course I understand that you don't want it to be sold or represent your first sold product. It's good to step away from this for a bit. It sounds as if both of you are kicking yourselves over this. It's just not worth it.

[DoubleC]

(((HUGS)))

Of course I understand that you don't want it to be sold or represent your first sold product. It's good to step away from this for a bit. It sounds as if both of you are kicking yourselves over this. It's just not worth it.

You know Sylvia, I think we're both feeling extremely stupid and sensitive right now. And I'm sorry now that I even put all this drama and chaos up. Not that people haven't been supportive, they have. It's just this isn't why I joined the forum. I want to learn, I want to get better at what i do, I want to see other people's work, and for two days or so it's been a silly cheap piece of tack I've been talking about. You're right, it's not worth it, and how it got this far I can't seem to figure out. But I'll take my share of the blame for opening my mouth before my brain engaged, and consider that a lesson too. Thank you so much. cheryl

[dirtclod]

25 or 30 years ago i worked for two different contractors. They were in business togeather at one time and they both told me the same thing we got out of the partnership while we were still friends. It's hard to be in business with another person most of the time. Best of luck for both of ya.

Edited January 6, 2012 by dirtclod

[DoubleC]

25 or 30 years ago i worked for two different contractors. They were in business togeather at one time and they both told me the same thing we got out of the partnership while we were still friends. It's hard to be in business with another person most of the time. Best of luck for both of ya.

I am so realizing that. I think I'd be better doing the business on my own a little at a time, and us remaining friends. Thanks for taking the time to write. Cheryl

[rickybobby]

I am so realizing that. I think I'd be better doing the business on my own a little at a time, and us remaining friends. Thanks for taking the time to write. Cheryl

Cheryl,

I just left a business that I started with a friend 4 years ago. It just became to much DRAMA. He has a large family that he allows to dominate his day (work days) and his mind is not on business. I thought it would get better after each drama session but started to realize this is how it will always be, one drama after another, it is how some people function (or don't function). I could not make business decisions without him, I would propose something and he would not make a decision, so the opportunity would pass us by. He held up everything by not moving forward. I needed to leave. It is some peoples way of taking control of a situation but never calling themselves the "leader" they are just and anchor to the rest of us when we are tied to a business with them.

Anyways, I gave a 6 week notice, made sure the bills were all paid, cleaned up all of "special" jobs I took in for customers and made sure all the work was caught up. I moved my sewing machines, benches, and tools into my garage and started a new business. We remain friends and my stress level is zero. You don't have to worry about stepping on someone else s emotional toes. You can deal with customers without having wait to talk to a partner about money, you make all the decisions!!

I am working less and making more money, and are doing the projects I want to do, turning away to lower profit jobs if I want.

It sounds like you need to change the name of the business to "Single C" and do this your self. Most of your posts have had a boat anchor attached (your partner) and you cannot move forward because of it. Get out now before you get in to deep financially or you are no longer friends.

Something for you to think about, I have not looked back!

Rick

[DoubleC]

Cheryl,

I just left a business that I started with a friend 4 years ago. It just became to much DRAMA. He has a large family that he allows to dominate his day (work days) and his mind is not on business. I thought it would get better after each drama session but started to realize this is how it will always be, one drama after another, it is how some people function (or don't function). I could not make business decisions without him, I would propose something and he would not make a decision, so the opportunity would pass us by. He held up everything by not moving forward. I needed to leave. It is some peoples way of taking control of a situation but never calling themselves the "leader" they are just and anchor to the rest of us when we are tied to a business with them.

Anyways, I gave a 6 week notice, made sure the bills were all paid, cleaned up all of "special" jobs I took in for customers and made sure all the work was caught up. I moved my sewing machines, benches, and tools into my garage and started a new business. We remain friends and my stress level is zero. You don't have to worry about stepping on someone else s emotional toes. You can deal with customers without having wait to talk to a partner about money, you make all the decisions!!

I am working less and making more money, and are doing the projects I want to do, turning away to lower profit jobs if I want.

It sounds like you need to change the name of the business to "Single C" and do this your self. Most of your posts have had a boat anchor attached (your partner) and you cannot move forward because of it. Get out now before you get in to deep financially or you are no longer friends.

Something for you to think about, I have not looked back!

Rick

You know, it's strange Rick, she thinks she's the one coming up with solutions and I'm being stubborn. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I offered to give the tack away decorated for testimonials, she didn't want that. I offered to finish it and her sell it on eBay under her ID because I don't want anything to do with the business Paypal (which we don't have set up yet) because I'll be honest, I'm NOT good with money. I sold on eBay for quite a while and bought more than I sold and barely got out alive with a 100% reputation. I was doing vintage things at the time, jewelry and smalls and I always found something too good to pass up knowing I could make money on it. I guess auctions are my personal form of gambling. she didn't want to do that. Then after she told me to send it all back and I went off about my time, the business and my paying shipping, plus it being up to me to find some working capitol, she wrote the next day a long ugly email and said all she wanted to hear from me right then was did I want her to send me the money to ship them. Thant she had every intention of selling the tack and putting it back into the business. The day before she said she was just going to throw it in the barn with their old saddles they use for training. I gave up reading minds a long time ago unfortunately.

Yesterday I worked on the website changing it back the way she wanted, after I sent an apologetic email in return saying i didn't want her money. I have sent her posts from here and she's mad I'm discussing all this. I told her I didn't post about this issue, but rather what to coat the paint with so it didn't fall off after the tack was used a week. And that these were the posts I was getting. She threatened yesterday to just walk away and I told her I'd rather be friends with her than partners. I wouldn't even have to change the name, mine is Cheryl Crossan :-) I have someone here helping me learn excel, I've downloaded everything and read every tutorial I could find that was relevant, found a leather supplier and signed up for a wholesale account, down the website twice, researched everything from hardware to what seems to be selling at eBay, plus been working on this tack. She found a wholesale rhinestone business and ordered some to put on a pair of jeans. I ordered USMC and Resolene and some glass scarabs because on the black set I bought I'm putting my own conchos on the set and didn't have an extra scarab for the breast collar. Picture from photobucket attached along with the drawing online I took it from. She says I'm flitting and need to concentrate on finishing the tack. I think I'm trying to survive and get this business off the ground. And like I said Rick the truth is probably some where in the middle, I don't know. I just know I can't fight about it anymore and I'm almost out of apologies. I want her to walk away though I don't want to just leave her behind. I don't know, I just know you all have some really good advice. Thanks for writing Rick. Cheryl