Chavez Report post Posted January 5, 2012 Hi! I've read a few posts here about using a 50-50 mix of beeswax and neetsfoot oil to finish leathergoods. Some people would also add other components (e.g. parafin). I only have olive oil, so my first question is whether olive oil will work as well as neetsfoot? Secondly, can somebody please explain the purposes of additives and what to add to the mix? Thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwight Report post Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) A couple of years ago I got a recipe, . . . 50/50 beeswax and neetsfoot oil, . . . by weight, . . . heat em up slowly in a double cooker. I use a glass jar in a crock pot about half full of water. Remember the old saying: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. That recipe works super well, . . . don't have any idea why anyone would want to add something to it. You could try olive oil, . . . I cannot speak good or bad about it, as I don't know. May God bless, Dwight Edited January 5, 2012 by Dwight Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
McJeep Report post Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) How well would this mixture hold up to rain etc?? Or is it strictly a "looks great with a natural lustre" finish? And I take it that it gets brushed on then buffed? Very interested in something like this as I really hate chemical sprays etc. Edited January 5, 2012 by McJeep Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted January 5, 2012 Back in the '80s I used to do that for knife sheaths. I had a electric roaster full of the stuff. It worked very well but gave a very noticeable coat, you could brush and buff it and it looked like you polyurethaned it. Anyway, I've given-up the DYI ethic, if someone else is making it and doing a good job, I'll buy it. Montana Pitchblend oil has Pine pitch and mink oil, and works very well. They make a paste that has Pine Pitch, Mink Oil, and Beeswax, and it is a lot like my old concoction, but a little easier to apply. You don't have to heat it like I did my old stuff. Montana Pitchblend Here. Art Hi! I've read a few posts here about using a 50-50 mix of beeswax and neetsfoot oil to finish leathergoods. Some people would also add other components (e.g. parafin). I only have olive oil, so my first question is whether olive oil will work as well as neetsfoot? Secondly, can somebody please explain the purposes of additives and what to add to the mix? Thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chavez Report post Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Well, I've got some mink oil too, but would prefer to use evoo as it doesn't go through my leatherwork budget but just gets pinched from the kitchen I'll stick to carnauba+kiwi for now, but I always get excited about home-brewed stuff =) One of the older posts suggested applying this paste to leather, then using a hair dryer to heat it up and then giving it a buff. By the way, are there any suggestions on the amount of pine pitch that goes into the mix? Edited January 5, 2012 by Chavez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted January 6, 2012 No real need for the EVOO, we're too short on virgins as it is around here. Regular olive oil should suffice. Don't make up a whole lot of it, the olive oil is susceptible to oxidation. I have no idea of the ratios they use. Art Well, I've got some mink oil too, but would prefer to use evoo as it doesn't go through my leatherwork budget but just gets pinched from the kitchen I'll stick to carnauba+kiwi for now, but I always get excited about home-brewed stuff =) One of the older posts suggested applying this paste to leather, then using a hair dryer to heat it up and then giving it a buff. By the way, are there any suggestions on the amount of pine pitch that goes into the mix? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chavez Report post Posted January 6, 2012 Thanks, Art! What would oxidisation do to the mix? I can use Fiebing's Mink oil instead, but I believe its got Lanolin, silicone and neatsfoot oil mixed into it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sovran81 Report post Posted January 6, 2012 I have often questioned the use of olive oil since it does oxidize. I dont want my leather to smell like raunchy olives. Anyone with experience in its use care to comment? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted January 6, 2012 Like I said, I'm not really DIY anymore, olive oil will get rancid if around too long, the beeswax may help some. If you are near Abbey Saddlery, go pick their brains, and check on the price of neatsfoot oil. If not, just bite the bullet and order something from Montana Pitchblend or one of their suppliers. Call them, they might have someone in the UK selling their products. Art Thanks, Art! What would oxidisation do to the mix? I can use Fiebing's Mink oil instead, but I believe its got Lanolin, silicone and neatsfoot oil mixed into it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChuckBurrows Report post Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) I have often questioned the use of olive oil since it does oxidize. I dont want my leather to smell like raunchy olives. Anyone with experience in its use care to comment? Actually ALL oils will oxidize over time, even the best uch as whale oil, based on temp and other conditions. AS for using EVOO - it;s been used onleather since the Egyptians at least. My own use has been for over 40 years and I have NEVeR once had a piece of my own gear go rancid (and I use my gear hard) or any of my customers complain of rancidity. No real need for the EVOO, we're too short on virgins as it is around here. Regular olive oil should suffice. Don't make up a whole lot of it, the olive oil is susceptible to oxidation. Actually - no regular olive oils are heated which increase the chace of oxidation and eventual rancidity - Cold Pressed Olive oil on the other hand is as I described above. Edited January 6, 2012 by ChuckBurrows Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sovran81 Report post Posted January 6, 2012 Thank you Chuck for your insight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChuckBurrows Report post Posted January 7, 2012 You're welcome - and BTW - a mix of tallow (or other animal fat such as pure lard), oil, and usually wax is known as Dubbin, and is an old saddlers/harness makers mix for treating leather - there are a bunch of recipes out tthere and IIRC it is still made commercially in the UK - check with saddle shops or the Le Provo leather supply house http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=leprovo+leather&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leprevo.co.uk%2F&ei=xJcIT4_-Bu3OiALO8qmjCQ&usg=AFQjCNFCuENyTt_oHuNE4nXu9a_W15ci5g&sig2=h7cxHUZnxy89Xbqfw7Afng Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chavez Report post Posted January 7, 2012 Thanks Chuck! From what I've read about the wax-oil mix it seems like a good flesh side sealer. I guess I'll just have to experiment and try the mix out=) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sovran81 Report post Posted January 8, 2012 I am currently using a mix of tallow, beeswax, pure soap, and glycerin. Being the cheap bastage that I am buying something I can make much cheaper is wasting leather money. LOL My current mix works nice and can be cut with water if it dries out a little but that is part of the problem. I have been trying to find a oil that will work well in the mix that will help prevent it from drying out completely in the leather. Recent google searching has told me the following. That almost all oils oxidize to different amounts depending on the size of the molecular chain and if it is a saturated or poly-unsaturated oil. Heat also plays a large part in it, but there is not much that can be done about that since we are dealing with a hydro-carbon based molecule and if heat isnt used in the processing of the oil it is used for pasteurizing food oils. All the science aside( most of which I have a hard time understanding let alone explaining) it seems the best oil for the application is coconut oil. Within the next few weeks I will make up a small test batch and report the results if anyone is interested. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wheels Report post Posted January 16, 2012 Does anyone have an opinion about why some receipes add parafin to the mix. What does the parafin wax do? Is it used to cut the cost of the mix since the beeswax is kind of expensive? Wheels Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spence Report post Posted January 16, 2012 I'd be interested in the coconut oil test results. I have two 5-gallon tubs of it, left over from my wife's soap making days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HellfireJack Report post Posted January 16, 2012 As far as I know paraffin adds rigidity and hardness to the all otherwise easily malleable mix. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sovran81 Report post Posted January 18, 2012 A cheap supply for beeswax is the hardware store. The seals used for toilet bowls are made from beeswax. I get them for $1 each. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldtimer Report post Posted January 18, 2012 What do you guys think about mixing oil with carnauba wax, instead of bees wax? carnauba wax gives a very shiny finish / Knut Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sovran81 Report post Posted January 18, 2012 What do you guys think about mixing oil with carnauba wax, instead of bees wax? carnauba wax gives a very shiny finish / Knut I know nothing about it so I did a quick google. With its high melting point and poor solubility in water or ethanol I think it would be hard to emulsify it into the dressing. On the other hand, one of its uses is the shiny coating on candies. so the question that comes to my mind is with its melting and solubility properties how do you ever get past the coating and get to the candy. So there is something I am missing with its use. Figure out how to emulsify it easily and it might work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChuckBurrows Report post Posted January 20, 2012 Recent google searching has told me the following. That almost all oils oxidize to different amounts depending on the size of the molecular chain and if it is a saturated or poly-unsaturated oil. Heat also plays a large part in it, but there is not much that can be done about that since we are dealing with a hydro-carbon based molecule and if heat isnt used in the processing of the oil it is used for pasteurizing food oils. With all due respect, but not all food grade oils are pasteurized. Good quality EVOO is not and neither is Flaxseed oil as a couple of examples, that is why I noted to use EVOO rather than the cheaper stuff. EVOO BTW is mostly a monounsaturated fat. Another oil you may look into is real mink oil, since it has has a greater resistance to becoming rancid than most other oils whether animal or vegetable. For mink oil, Montana Pitchblend is an excellent choice, As for oils that stay in the leather rather than evaporating off - Lexol's products have been specifically formulated for that and that's why I use it almost exclusively on my more modern gear. On my historical gear I use my own dubbin, just because I try to keep all materials as original as possible - a selling point for many of my customers who can be a bit anal at times over such things.... While I can understand trying to be thrifty, sometimes we're just re-inventing the wheel so to speak and many times we wind up spending more than if we just bought the pre-made goods I been ther and done that LOL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sovran81 Report post Posted January 20, 2012 With all due respect, but not all food grade oils are pasteurized. Good quality EVOO is not and neither is Flaxseed oil as a couple of examples, that is why I noted to use EVOO rather than the cheaper stuff. EVOO BTW is mostly a monounsaturated fat. Another oil you may look into is real mink oil, since it has has a greater resistance to becoming rancid than most other oils whether animal or vegetable. For mink oil, Montana Pitchblend is an excellent choice, As for oils that stay in the leather rather than evaporating off - Lexol's products have been specifically formulated for that and that's why I use it almost exclusively on my more modern gear. On my historical gear I use my own dubbin, just because I try to keep all materials as original as possible - a selling point for many of my customers who can be a bit anal at times over such things.... While I can understand trying to be thrifty, sometimes we're just re-inventing the wheel so to speak and many times we wind up spending more than if we just bought the pre-made goods I been ther and done that LOL! Hi Chuck, I really value the input that more experienced craftsman give because most have been there and done that. If I could copy the formula of the better known commercial dressings I would. My being thrifty stems from as a plaiter the dressing is used as a lubricant between the layers of braid and I can easily use about 2-4 cups for 1 small project. Finding these commercial dressings in large quantity at prices that doesnt break the bank (especially without a resell license) hasnt been possible. The ingredients on the other hand are much cheaper and I have time, a stove and a mixer. It was my understanding that all processed foodstuffs available in the US had to be either pasteurized or irradiated to make them safe from food poisoning. Even bottled water is treated with ozone. I have never even thought of flaxseed oil. Would you be willing to share your recipe for your own "dubbin"? Please feel free to shoot down any ideas I post that you have knowledge with. It will save me a failure. Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
