Question About Using/tooling Belly Leather

[miel zaphia]

Hey there,

Some questions on using Belly leather. My apologies if this post is a bit long winded.

From what I have read it is more flexible with a looser grain. How does this effect tooling & carving? Will it maintain a good deep impression as the item ages? Can it be used for small items such as belt buckles, cuff bracelets and flask covers without a huge compromise in quality despite the looser grain and stretchiness? Why do many people consider bellies to be scrap leather? (the low cost is obviously appealing to a beginner but I don't want to make useless products just to save money)

I just made my first leather purchase at W & C, directly from the tannery. I spoke with the gentleman on the phone and mentioned this was my first time purchasing leather, that I was on a budget and wondered whether it would be more cost effective to get a full side (belly and all), or just the back (less square footage with belly removed). I naively was under the impression the cost would be the same per squre foot, and the guy said nothing to indicate otherwise on the phone.

He said the back would be more cost effective as it was smaller and the belly is removed...however when I recieved my invoice the price listed per square foot was $8.25 rather than the $7.15 I was expecting- uh oh! I ignorantly failed to notice at the bottom of the website page, the little box that it mentioned an additional $1.20 surcharge per square foot for the back. The man on the phone never mentioned the surcharge and actually quoted me the price without it (a couple hundred dollars less than the actual cost!).

Oops! Never going to do that again!

SO, to make a long story short I plan to order a full side next time, and am wondering, what to do with that belly leather? Obviously the quality is not the same, but if I am able to make small items that hold their tooling and don't require much strength with belly leather it would be fantastic! In that case I could save a tonne of money and buy bellies for these kind of items.

However I do plan to sell some of my cuff bracelets and don't want to be giving a customer a substandard product. Any thoughts/opinions on the matter?

Anyone with some experience in regards to using/tooling/dying the bellies?

Here are some pictures of the kind jewellery/items I want to make (unassembled):

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

If the items pictured are typical of the size pieces you will be needing, I would think you would be able to purchase leather in a much less expensive manner than buying a whole side. Most shops generate more scrap than they can use, myself included, and these items would be a great use for that scrap! Nice work by the way for just having gotten started. I really like the barrette second picture down.

[miel zaphia]

Thanks! The only problem is there just aren't too many people doing leatherwork where I live (Winnipeg Manitoba). More people making moccasins etc with deer and moosehide. When I started I was raiding the local tandy scrap bin but it's so far from my house and quite unreliable (sometimes great scraps, more often, not. If I could find someone who was willing to sell me some quality scraps that would certainly be ideal. I do however intend to make some larger items such as guitar straps and womens belts for which I will need larger pieces of leather (but now I have that after my W&C purchase).

[JLSleather]

For the barrette and bracelet type thing, I don't know why that should be a problem.

I buy backs in the heavier weights, because I don't have much use for small pieces of anything over about 6 oz leather. But, I do buy sides in 3/4 (and occasionally 2/3), as I can use the lighter leathers pretty much.

Bellies certainly have more stretch than the higher portions of the hide. Still, this leather is fine for items that aren't extensively tooled, and don't receive a lot of stress.

Doing the math, in US dollars, a 25' side at $7.15 is $180. The back from the same hide is $150-ish, assuming the back is about 18 feet. So, that belly is costing you $30 (or, about 4.50/ft). So, if you have use for it, might as well take it. Any lining that is glued in, it's fine. It makes a nice piece to set stitching machine tensions. Test your dye color before throwing it on the 'real' project.

Even after using bellies for all that, I still have a box of "scrap" that never goes empty. But, it's cheap, so ...

[DoubleC]

I use 9 oz bellies for my bracelets, belts, guitar straps, etc. I get them at Springfield Leather Company for about 22.00. And they come with a straight edge on them making it easy to use my strap cutter. I've never had anything brought back for repair or any other problem with them. They stretch more than the back but all leather stretches. I made a belt for a man out of 14 oz stirrup leather and after a month he said it's stretched. Recovered a chair for him out of 10 oz (these are not bellies I'm talking about) and the chair has stretched a little from his weight.

I'd be lost if I didn't have bellies for my 'strappy things' which I consider belts, AND cuff bracelet. I would give one a try and see how you like it. Cheryl

[dirtclod]

But a side you will be money ahead in the long run.

[dirtclod]

Should of been.... Buy a side you'll be money ahead in the long run.

[Hennessy]

been scratching leather for 42 yrs or so..belly has its place in leather work you just have to understand the grain n where its weakest trashy spots are and what you can use it on .for starters it can be a filler,on work that will bear no strain etc etc you can tool it minimiseing stretch thru a backing ,good for practiseingdont use it on good payin custom work but use good judgement ,especially helpful for beginners !

[miel zaphia]

been scratching leather for 42 yrs or so..belly has its place in leather work you just have to understand the grain n where its weakest trashy spots are and what you can use it on .for starters it can be a filler,on work that will bear no strain etc etc you can tool it minimiseing stretch thru a backing ,good for practiseingdont use it on good payin custom work but use good judgement ,especially helpful for beginners !

Wow! Thanks for all the feedback guys and gals. This has been such an excellent resource for me and I have avoided many mistakes through reading these forums and finally thought i'd chip in with my own question.

Hennessy: Thanks for the response.

What is the best way for identifying the weakest "Trashy spots" of the grain?"

I've noticed on the backs I ordered there are some areas/patches especially around the edges where the grain side looks darker in color and much hairier/looser. Is this what you are referring to? Any input is appreciated!

Also, how exactly can you "tool thru a backing"? on belly leather Not sure I've ever heard of this technique! Are you refering to securing/gluing/taping your leather down before tooling? Thanks!

[SteelcityK9Cop]

For me, I use the belly for testing and evaluation. Any new pattern I want to try out or something I want to experiment with gets done with the belly.

[WinterBear]

Since you're not making things that require a large piece of leather, nor long straps, but maybe don't want the stretch in a belly, why don't you try buying double shoulders? They're going to be little mushy on the neck portions and you'll get some flanky stuff near the leg, but they're generally more cost effective than the backs because they don't have the length that belt and tack makers need for the really long and strongest straps. You'll have some fat marks and wrinkles marks in the shoulder that you won't find over much of a back, but I don't see that it will impact your tooling or dye any.

[miel zaphia]

Since you're not making things that require a large piece of leather, nor long straps, but maybe don't want the stretch in a belly, why don't you try buying double shoulders? They're going to be little mushy on the neck portions and you'll get some flanky stuff near the leg, but they're generally more cost effective than the backs because they don't have the length that belt and tack makers need for the really long and strongest straps. You'll have some fat marks and wrinkles marks in the shoulder that you won't find over much of a back, but I don't see that it will impact your tooling or dye any.

Thanks for the advice! I'll give that a try (and now I have the leather I need if I do want to make belts and guitar straps in the future.