Singer 111W155 Problems

[vpd66]

I posted my problem in the thread "Singer 111W155 timing/thread issues", but didn't get any responces so I thought I'd start my own post. I bought my Singer 111W155 10 months ago from a guy, but he didn't have any thread so he just ran the machine and didn't sew anything with it (my dumb mistake). He said it sewed and shouldn't need anything but normal maintance. I got it home and bought a new needle and thread. I got it to sew, but kept having a extra loop of thread around the bobbin when I removed my material. After 10 months of using this machine for small projects, I decided it wasn't me and the machine needed some adjustment. I rounded up 2 different copys of the manual for this machine (Singer and US government). I studied the manuals, researched the internet (which brought me here), and studied my machine. I determined that my timing of the arm shaft and the hook drive shaft is off by a 1/8". The problem is when I line up the marks on the hook drive shaft and have the take-up lever all the way up the belt won't go on. it is a 1/2 tooth off. I can go a tooth either way, but the marks are a 1/8" off either way. Took the hand wheel and bearing off and even took out the drive pin for the top belt sprocket on the arm shaft and everything looks good and tight. I did notice when I first started checking things that the safety clutch had a zip tie holding the arm that engages it around the shaft. I removed it and tried to adjust it but when I get the timing marks lined up the clutch is too far off to engage. So my question is why can't I get the timing marks lined up? Is my safety clutch wore out? Stretched timing belt? Bent armshaft or hookdrive shaft? Any ideas? I'm about to purchase a new timing belt and a new safety clutch to see if that fixes my problems, but I hate throwing money at problems hoping it fixes it.

[Vintage Singers NYC]

Hi [Whatever your name is],

If the timing is only off by half a tooth: Have you tried loosening the grub screws in the hook-driving gear, tapping it slightly to the left or the right to compensate, then tightening the screws back up? As long as the teeth still catch you're in business.

One other thing to check: Open the slide plate so you can see the hook, then jiggle the handwheel back and forth, the absolute minimum amount you need to get the needlebar to move up and down. Now look at the hook and see if it responds to even the tiniest jiggles of the handwheel. When I did this with a well-used 111w155 I picked up, I observed that while the needlebar moved even if I rotated the handwheel a millimeter, it took several millimeters of handwheel movement before the hook responded. In other words, the hook gear was worn out and had enough slop that it was affecting the timing.

I ordered a replacement hook gear and corresponding hook-driving gear online, but the damned things were made overseas and had less than fine tolerances. I had to take the hook gear to a machine shop and get them to shave a couple thousandths of an inch off of the top of it to get it to fit between the bearings. Even then, if I meshed the gears up snugly they'd start to grind once a rotation, as the teeth are not 100% consistent. I had to compensate by tapping the hook-driving gear quite far to the left, but not so far that the teeth don't grab, and finally managed to get the timing right with some back and forth.

hope that helps,

- Nick

Vintage Singer Sewing Machine Blog

http://vssmb.blogspot.com/

[gottaknow]

Without the benefit of seeing your machine, it's difficult on a machine of that age to determine where the problem may lie. There's one thing that comes to mind that you didn't mention you checked. That would be the take up lever cam located on the left end of the top shaft. It's the funny shaped cam that actually drives the motion of the take-up lever. It is possible that cam may have shifted on the top shaft to throw off your timing efforts. Some of the earlier 111's had this cam pressed on to the shaft, later on they began putting set screws in them. By the time the machine became the newer 211's, they always used set screws. Even if the set screw was slightly loose, it would put your top shaft slightly off, even though the lever is all the way up. On the machines that had the shaft pressed on, they will loosen and turn slightly. Machines that are used hard will usually present a problem in the weakest area. Singer began using set screws for this take-up cam when the pressed ones were slipping. I've seen them welded. If your timing belt was worn out, you'd still be able to line up your marks. There's enough adjustment in the hook gears to get a decent sewing machine even if you're off a tooth. Those machines are forgiving as far as the hook timing goes. Given the choice, place your timing belt on when it retards the hook (comes in lower on the needle). You hook timing is likely advanced to the point where it's picking up the previous stitches' loop before it's pulled up. You also need to check your latch opener on the hook to ensure the needle thread's not getting hung up as it tries to set the stitch. The older the machine, the harder it is to try and recreate the abuse or lack of maintenance. I've seen plenty of twisted top shafts in these machines, not so much the bottom shafts. The timing belts will work until they break, even with some slop. As a side note, I ordered a bunch of Singer timing belts and returned them. They were worse than what I was trying to replace. Best of luck.

Regards, Eric

[vpd66]

Ok, had a chance to do some checking and adjusting on my Singer this afternoon. Nick, I checked the hook to needle bar movement and it is tight, no play at all. Eric, I looked at the cam on the end of the arm shaft and everything is tight. It seems that mine has set screws holding it on. If I look down from the top of the machine just to right of the take-up lever is a hole that you can get at the set screws for the arm shaft cam. I checked and they were tight. I put the belt back on with the marks 1/8" (or half tooth) off and played around with the adjusting the hook to needle like you suggested. I got it to sew better then it ever has. I had a test piece about 12" long and ran about 10 rows of stitches and never had the problem I had before. Thanks for the help! You mentioned in the other thread about making some videos on adjusting these machines, any progress on these?

Thanks, Vince

[gottaknow]

Ok, had a chance to do some checking and adjusting on my Singer this afternoon. Nick, I checked the hook to needle bar movement and it is tight, no play at all. Eric, I looked at the cam on the end of the arm shaft and everything is tight. It seems that mine has set screws holding it on. If I look down from the top of the machine just to right of the take-up lever is a hole that you can get at the set screws for the arm shaft cam. I checked and they were tight. I put the belt back on with the marks 1/8" (or half tooth) off and played around with the adjusting the hook to needle like you suggested. I got it to sew better then it ever has. I had a test piece about 12" long and ran about 10 rows of stitches and never had the problem I had before. Thanks for the help! You mentioned in the other thread about making some videos on adjusting these machines, any progress on these?

Thanks, Vince

Glad to hear it's working better Vince. I've got a general outline completed for the videos and will start putting them on youtube as they're made. I'm pretty excited still about the project as there are lots of folks keeping the older machines in service. I really do enjoy doing what I can to help.

Regards, Eric

[vpd66]

Glad to hear it's working better Vince. I've got a general outline completed for the videos and will start putting them on youtube as they're made. I'm pretty excited still about the project as there are lots of folks keeping the older machines in service. I really do enjoy doing what I can to help.

Regards, Eric

Thanks Eric!, I don't think these machines are has hard to work on has people think. The manuals are hard to follow and lack pictures. When you have only one machine with a problem and not another to compare it to or know how it should be (I guess thats called experience) doesn't make it easy. With help from people like you we can keep these machines running! I'm looking forward to seeing your videos, keep us posted has to when there done.

Thanks again, Vince

[mountain mama]

Hey guys, how are ya? I have been struggling with my machine for quite sometime, and by reading through the other forums I have gained alot of knowledge and it has brought me a long way with my machine, I appreciate all of your input and advice, and the work you have done to help other leather workers.

When I first got my machine, I had a jam and ended doing more damage than good, resulting in the hook and stem to be replaced. I took the machine to a repairman, who sorted out the problems and got my machine sewing, however when he tested the machine, he used very thin fabric, not comparable to vinyl or leather. After sewing just bit, the hook quit rotating. After inspection, I found the hook time gear was floppy and the set screws had worked themselves loose. I retimed the hook and got it sewing again. After sewing a bit more, the hook was off again, so I retimed it again, and again and again. Even though I have retimed the hook and the set screws have not worked themselves loose, the hook still gets out of time. I have examined the machine for loose screws that would effect the hook but have found nothing. Does anyone know why my hook is getting out of time after a little use, and what I might do? any help is appreciated.

[Constabulary]

Then it is probably your needle bar that causes the problem.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=56271&p=360988

It also could be the safety clutch that is released, check this video:

[mountain mama]

I have ruled out the trouble being in the needle bar. Thanks for the video, it helped me to understand how the clutch works better. I could tell that the method of pushing the button and rotating the machine backwards was not rengaging the clutch well.Although I don't have any play in the clutch, I think I may have managed to manually reset the clutch. I will retime the hook once again and see if it performs better. I will get back to you. thanks for your help Constabulary.