Cowboy Cb3200 Problems ... Can Someone Please Help?

[RoosterShooter]

Production is down here, and I cannot get ahold of anyone to help me out. I called Bob with Toledo Sewing Machine today. He told me to try a few things and get back with him if they didn't work, and he never got back to me.

Then, I called Ryan Neel of Neels Sadlery, and I have always been able to get in touch with him since he's a night owl. I have left a few messages, and he hasn't gotten back to me either after 12 hours!

So, I'm stuck trying to figure it out on my own!

Machine and Material Details:

- I am running 277 thread on top and bottom

- #25 794s needle

- Leather is 3/8" thick in the area being sewn.

Things I have tried and have failed:

- New Needle

- Adjusted top tension, in increments to the tightest level ... no luck.

-Adjusted top tension, in increments, to be equal to bobbin tension ... no luck.

-Adjusted bobbin tension until it took very little effort to pull the thread out ... no luck.

-At this point I am clueless on what to do. I have messed with the needle tension and bobbin tension to the point of it not working on any setting, and put it back to the original tension, test sewed lighter leather to confirm, and left it alone.

Does anyone have ANY suggestions on what to do next?

[Wizcrafts]

If that photo shows the top of the leather and the bobbin tension is steady (not jammed or jumpy, yet not loose), then something is jamming the top thread along the path. Watch your top thread from the spool to the upper disks. Does it twist hard and possibly get caught over, under, or around something (including the thread spool itself)? Is it wrapped twice around the lower disk, then up through the eyelet, then through the check spring loop, up to the take-up lever, down through two guides and the hole in the top of the needle mount? Is the scarf cutout in the needle facing to the right? Is the needle all the way up?

More things to check are: does the presser foot move all the way up and down when you lift it with the foot lifter? Does it release the top disks when fully lifted and engage them when lowered? It should do these things. If not, something is binding in the presser foot mechanism. It could be the chain that feeds down to the pedal.

Handwheel the machine through some leather with the end cover off. Watch the top thread as it gets pulled around the bobbin case. Does it make a snapping sound as it passes the edge of the shuttle, as it lets go? Top thread getting stuck going around the bobbin and shuttle may be resolved by slightly loosening the two spring loaded screws that secure the shuttle race to the end of the machine. I usually run mine backed off about 1/2 turn.

Over...

Edited April 18, 2015 by Wizcrafts

[amuckart]

whar are we looking at? Top or bottom? Can you describe the problem, what you were doing /changed right before it started happening, and what you've tried so far to fix it?

[RoosterShooter]

That is the bottom of the leather. Thanks

[Wizcrafts]

That is the bottom of the leather. Thanks

Bottom has loops.

This can be caused by the top thread lifting out of the payload area of the upper disks, by the top thread getting jammed as it passes around the bobbin case and shuttle, or by the bobbin binding inside the bobbin case. Advanced timing can lead to snapping of the top thread due to excessive tension from a small loop.

[RoosterShooter]

How do I check and/or fix any of the issues listed?

[amuckart]

Wiz has already mentioned having the shuttle race on too tight. I've had that problem too, but it didn't come right until I completely removed the shuttle race and reinstalled it, being careful not to do the screws up all the way. On my machine I do the screws up just until the springs disappear and that seems to work with size 277 thread.

The other times I've had this happen to me on my CB4500 it was either because the upper thread was getting caught on the shuttle, as Wiz said, or because the shuttle position was wrong. It was cycling back too early and the top thread was getting caught between the back of the shuttle and the top rear of the shuttle race.

The symptom aside from the loops was that as the takeup lever moved upwards, instead of drawing up the loop from around the shuttle, it pulled the check spring right up and drew off more upper thread through the tension disks. It did this even with the top tension wound all the way up.

You can check this by turning the machine over by hand while looking into the end of the arm with the shuttle cover removed. Turn the machine over slowly and see if you can see where it's happening. Sometimes this will only happen when there is material in the machine, and sometimes it'll work if the machine is turned over very slowly but not when it's run at speed.

If you turn it over slowly and it works, or you can't see anywhere where the thread is catching, try running the machine with the motor and see if you can see it. If you still can't see it, remove the needle plate and try again.

If that doesn't work, check all the timings. I'm not sure if the CB3200 is a 441 clone or a different type of machine but the shuttle timing for walking foot machines is set in the head of the machine, rather than directly off the shuttle driving cam like non-walking foot machines.

If the CB3200 is a 441 type machine, you could go over the steps in the Juki TSC-441 Engineer's manual, but for me at least, it took a few reads to get the sense of that set of adjustments.

If you think the shuttle position is wrong, you can adjust that by removing the cover plate on the front of the machine under the stitch adjusting lever. If you peer in there with a torch while you're cycling the machine you should see a hex bolt come into view that moves in sync with the shuttle. This is the connection between the shuttle driving cam and the shaft that actually turns the shuttle. If you loosen that hex bolt off you will be able to turn the shuttle manually.

To do this, set the stitch length to zero, remove the needle plate and feed dog (which will necessitate removing the shuttle race and shuttle first). Cycle the machine until the shuttle has rotated counterclockwise as far as it goes in its cycle. At this point there should be about 3/64" of shuttle point sticking out past the rearmost lip of the shuttle race. If it has disappeared completely the shuttle has rotated too far counter-clockwise. If there is more than about 1/16" of the shuttle point sticking out, it is rotated too far clockwise.

If that looks correct, with the stitch length at zero, cycle the machine until the needle has gone past bottom dead centre and come up 3/8" (5mm). In this position the shuttle point should bisect the vertical centreline of the needle, about 1/32" above the eye.

If that is correct, leave the machine in that position and move the stitch length lever up and down between its maximum forward and reverse lengths. The needle and centre foot should not move more than about 1/32".

If all that is correct, then I'm not sure what's happening. If it is not[/u] correct, then you need to re-time the feed. You do that by making adjustments to bits in the top rear of the machine where the main shaft turns the shuttle driving cam and the main feed cam.

[CowboyBob]

Steve,

I thought you were to call me back?

One thing I forgot to mention yesterday(Thanks to Amuckart) is the screws that hold the race on(outside of shuttle) you need to turn all the way in & back them out one full turn so it can float.

[RoosterShooter]

I got your message yesterday Bob, but was busy with family so I didn't get to call you back in time. Thanks for calling me back.

I did talk to Ryan Neel and he gave me a few points to check.

I have narrowed it down to a part that is causing me issues, but don't know how to fix it!

When material 3/8" or thicker is placed under the presser feet, and you put the presser foot knob BACK down in the sewing position, there is a finger that splits the auxilary tensioner.

This 'finger' is staying in the UP position and splitting the discs on the Auxilary Tensioner.

I have tried polishing the finger .... thinking maybe it was binding.

However, the problem is that the components that hold this 'Finger' in place ARE NOT returning to the 'Down' position when I lower the Presser Foot Knob.

In the Schematics of the manual it is listed as the "Knee Lifter Components".

On Material Thinner than 3/8" it automatically returned to the 'Down' position when I lower the Knob, and the discs in the Auxilary Tensioner are NOT split .... allowing the Aux. Tensioner to return to putting tension on the thread while sewing.

However .... in material 3/8" or Thicker .... the mechanism DOES NOT return to it's 'Down' position when I lower the Knob, and the discs on the Aux. Tensioner stay Split! Resulting in a very loose tension when I sew.

So, How do I fix the machine so that the "Finger" splitting the Auxiliary Tensioner discs has enough tension to return to the 'Down' position when I lower the Presser Foot knob?

[Wizcrafts]

In my first reply in this topic I alluded to this very issue. The outside presser foot bar (aka: "presser bar") is binding when lifted beyond a certain height. This can be caused by any of the following things.

• Check the chain feeding down to the lift pedal to see if the links are binding, or if the S hook has bent over the tab on the floor pedal.
• Check the rod along the back from the chain end to the left side of the head for binding.
• Make sure the separator tab is not binding on its shaft, or jamming in the thread guide loop behind the top tension disks.
• An off-center hole in the top pressure adjuster, over the presser bar. Turn the adjuster slowly and see if the bar drops at a particular amount of rotation. If so, enlarge the hole a bit. This happened to a couple of 441 machines I've worked with.
• A bent presser bar. You would have to completely remove the parts in front of the bar and remove it, then roll it on a flat table. If it really is bent, try straightening it. Or, replace it. This is unlikely on a newer machine.
• Is the lifted outside foot jamming against the inside foot? If so, reposition the inside foot to clear the outside toes.
• If the inside foot was facing true forward already, the outside foot toes might be misaligned. The presser bar that holds the outer foot is secured with one or two set screws. Loosening them allows you to rotate the bar. This may clear the binding.
• The crank arms inside the faceplate connect both the inner and outer feet. The slightest misalignment can cause binding, as can a lack of oil on those parts. I recently serviced a 441 machine that had a binding presser bar. The owner didn't know about opening the faceplate to oil internal moving parts. It took a long time to free them and remove the rust.

[RoosterShooter]

It's now Fixed thanks to Ryan Neel of Neel's Saddlery !

He spent a little while on the phone with me yesterday, on a Sunday, to get the issue resolved.

Basically, what was happening is that the presser foot and presser foot lifter were out of spec, and he helped me make the proper adjustments on the presser foot, needle bar, and presser foot knob in order to get it into the proper operating specs. The 'finger' that split the auxilary tensioner was not falling down when the presser foot was lowered when using the thicker material. There wasn't sufficient pressure to lower it to the proper place when material was under the presser foot, and the needle bar and presser foot were out of adjustment.

I had never sewn leather at the thickness of 3/8" until last week and this was where I was running into issues. It would do ok on the thinner material, but the thicker material was the problem.

I now have a machine that will accept 1/2" thick material, as intended. Whereas, before I could only fit 3/8" material underneath the presser foot.

All is working, and I'm back up and running today. I just thought I'd post a resolution to my issue. Have a good day!

Edited April 20, 2015 by RoosterShooter

[amuckart]

Glad to hear you got it working. If you can share the specifics of what you adjusted to get it working again it would be of use to future visitors to this forum.

[Singermania]

Glad you got it sorted, the photo shows the top tension to be way to light, as you say caused by the tension disks being held open. When something like this happens turn the machine over by hand and you will be able to see where things are going wrong and at what point. Its nice that people offer all sorts of complex machine adjustment advise, but always look for the simple answer first otherwise you can create problems where they didn't exist before.

Bob and Ryan and myself get real busy, not just answering phone calls, but there are machines to order, to unpack, to service, accounts to pay, there are family commitments and so on, we all do our best and I think we give the best service anywhere but we cant always be available every second...... hope everyone understands that we do our very best at all times and are genuinely disappointed if we occasionally aren't on the spot when needed.

[Darren Brosowski]

Every now and then we also try to get some sleep.