mlapaglia Report post Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) I made a belt for a dear friend. He would not let me line it. Im not sure what his reasons were. Anyway, the belt is H.O. 8-9 oz About 40 inches overall finished length. 5 holes Vinagroon color and Resolene finish. Hand stitch. (You know this is a true friend when I hand stitch a belt since I own a machine). He just called and told me the leather between hole 3 and 4 just tore through. I have never had this happen. The holes were spaced 1" apart and the leather didnt look like there was any problems with it. I have not seen it yet but its on the way. Hard to say what went wrong but He says he sat down at the table and it tore. He is not at all heavy and in good shape. Could he have just had it too tight? Could it be a bad section of the leather? Any ideas? Im off to start the replacement. Michael Edited February 10, 2014 by mlapaglia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Troy Burch Report post Posted February 10, 2014 I replace alot of sturrip straps because the quick couplers have worn sharp and cut through the holes. Wondering if he wears an old buckle thats worn down the post? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mlapaglia Report post Posted February 10, 2014 Troy, its a new buckle but it doesnt mean that the post does not have a sharp edge on it. Ill check. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
camano ridge Report post Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) I know you are familiar with using vinagroon. However when you get the belt back take a close look at the leather with a magnifying glass and feel the leather to see if it is brittle or crumbly. It is possible that that area either did not get neutralized well enough or got to much baking soda in that area (maybe not getting rinsed enough). Edited February 11, 2014 by northmount Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Cent Report post Posted February 10, 2014 You didn't mention anything about oiling the leather after the VG. I use VG a good bit but it will definitely dry out the leather. After mine dries from the VG, I lay it flat and really smear on the NeatsFoot Oil. On raw veg tanned, I usually wipe off excess and buff a little. With the VG I let it be and let it soak in the leather. I don't put the oil on the backside. And I do this on any leather that I dye. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fowlingpiece Report post Posted February 11, 2014 I would guess a problem with the vinegroon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mlapaglia Report post Posted February 11, 2014 I know you are familiar with using vinagroon. However when you get the belt back take a close look at the leather with a magnifying glass and feel the leather tosee if it is brittle or crumbly. It is possible that that area either did not get neutralized well enough or got to much baking soda in that area (maybe not getting rinsed enough). Good idea thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mlapaglia Report post Posted February 11, 2014 You didn't mention anything about oiling the leather after the VG. I use VG a good bit but it will definitely dry out the leather. After mine dries from the VG, I lay it flat and really smear on the NeatsFoot Oil. On raw veg tanned, I usually wipe off excess and buff a little. With the VG I let it be and let it soak in the leather. I don't put the oil on the backside. And I do this on any leather that I dye. I didn't mention it because i didn't think to. I did oil it with pure Neetsfoot oil. Nothing goes out the door without getting oiled up. Since there is always a 6 back or 3 in the fridge even a few customers have gotten oiled up. The only other thing I can think of is the owner of the belt lives in Seattle and wore it in NY to the to the superbowl. It might have broken in shame. (For those that don't know I live in Denver ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
camano ridge Report post Posted February 11, 2014 I think you got it wrong. It probably broke because he was bursting with pride. Go Seahawks. I live just north of Seattle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mlapaglia Report post Posted February 11, 2014 I think you got it wrong. It probably broke because he was bursting with pride. Go Seahawks. I live just north of Seattle You may be right. The Seahawks did a great job this year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geneva Report post Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) What material was the belt made from? Sounds as though it is latigo. I always cut the strap length and width that I need from latigo and then I stretch it by hand. If I get any movement above quarter inch I will not use that piece of leather because it will break. Just a thought. Edited February 11, 2014 by Geneva Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mlapaglia Report post Posted February 11, 2014 Veg-Tan H.O. 8-9 oz. My standard for a dress belt unlined. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Haystacker Report post Posted February 11, 2014 Did you use back? Shoulder? I try to use backs and I try make the billet end from as close to the spine and rear of the hide as possible. I live in Colorado Springs. But I am a transplant. Go "Hawks!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mlapaglia Report post Posted February 11, 2014 Did you use back? Shoulder? I try to use backs and I try make the billet end from as close to the spine and rear of the hide as possible. I live in Colorado Springs. But I am a transplant. Go "Hawks!" It was a back. I cut them the same way you do. I havent seen it yet but Im leaning toward a defect in the leather. Maybe a range mark I didnt notice or something. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Haystacker Report post Posted February 11, 2014 It was a back. I cut them the same way you do. I havent seen it yet but Im leaning toward a defect in the leather. Maybe a range mark I didnt notice or something. I'm not sure either. I usually do not make belts that thin. How long was the belt in service? Was the belt used for concealed carry? I am asking for my own edification. Hope it does not sound like the 3rd degree? In my opinion, the quality of leather has dropped over the last couple of years. I don't think it is H.O.'s fault. I believe the world wide demand for leather is causing a little quality issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwight Report post Posted February 11, 2014 Well, . . . some good came of it. I've been really considering the idea of setting up a vinegaroon rig, . . . Guess who ain't gonna do that now!!! I knew it needed neutralized, . . . but I didn't know enough about it to know it could cause that kind of problem. Look out oil dye, . . . here I come, . . . again ! May God bless, Dwight Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mlapaglia Report post Posted February 12, 2014 Well, . . . some good came of it. I've been really considering the idea of setting up a vinegaroon rig, . . . Guess who ain't gonna do that now!!! I knew it needed neutralized, . . . but I didn't know enough about it to know it could cause that kind of problem. Look out oil dye, . . . here I come, . . . again ! May God bless, Dwight Dwight, Out of over 100 belts vinagrooned this is the only one that did this. My personal opinion is either it was a problem with the leather or I did something stupid. Give it a try. Even if its the vinegaroon then the cause was my incorrect run through the backing soda. Id say go ahead and try it. Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
camano ridge Report post Posted February 12, 2014 I agree vinagroon is great. Most of the time it works , however like anything else things can go wrong. If you get to strong a soda slurry or leave it on to long it can burn the leather. However you will have more then one area with the proble. Not saying it was the roon I just made that suggestion. Dwight over on cascity.com in the howto FAQ there is a topic of old time dyes there is a ton of information on vinagaroon from CHuck Burrows and others that is worth reading. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwight Report post Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Well, . . . one of my "suits" I wear is Mr. Cheapskate, . . . always lookin for a bargain. My dye expenses sometimes make me want to say ouch, . . . and for a while there, I was doing more black than ever before, . . . which got me to looking at the roon. But besides cheap, . . . I'm also practical, . . . and I know that nothing in the dye will hurt my leather goods, . . . probably just stay with the dye process, . . . it works, no fuss, . . . and I really do hate to break in a new process. I'd be spinning too many wheels in the next little while just making sure my roon process was right, . . . May God bless, Dwight Edited February 12, 2014 by Dwight Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mlapaglia Report post Posted February 12, 2014 Well, . . . one of my "suits" I wear is Mr. Cheapskate, . . . always lookin for a bargain. My dye expenses sometimes make me want to say ouch, . . . and for a while there, I was doing more black than ever before, . . . which got me to looking at the roon. But besides cheap, . . . I'm also practical, . . . and I know that nothing in the dye will hurt my leather goods, . . . probably just stay with the dye process, . . . it works, no fuss, . . . and I really do hate to break in a new process. I'd be spinning too many wheels in the next little while just making sure my roon process was right, . . . May God bless, Dwight Roger That! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
malabar Report post Posted February 13, 2014 Michael, I also use roon for my black belts, although we put a coat of Angelus on top of it when we're done. The roon makes the leather tougher and more water resistant, and penetrates deeper than any dye. We've made dozens of heavy-duty, three layer belts this way. I make sure that we put a heavy coat of oil on the leather immediately after it dries. I've seen the leather degrade after dipping, but the heavy coat of oil seems to have fixed that. Been wearing one for about 18 months and it's holding up like iron. I'd be real interested in knowing what you find out about this. tk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
