Super-Green Newbie With Silly Questions

[Highlands858]

Hey there. I have absolutely no experience with leather, but I really want to make a holster for a handgun that I can't find one for. I've been doing as much reading as I can for the past few days, including the tutorial here: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=5696. Got a coupla questions though:

OK, so the most embarrassing one first: what do the different weights of leather pertain to? 8/9OZ, 3/4OZ, these numbers are a mystery to me. What would be the best choice for an OWB holster?

What's the difference between vegetable tanning and chrome tanning? Which is better for what I'm trying to make?

What do you use to glue leather in place, and where can you buy it?

In step 14 of the tutorial I linked he talks about waxing and slicking the edges that aren't stitched. What's the purpose of this, and how exactly is it done?

Is there a better way of molding leather than dunking it in hot water? Is there a way to control just how hard the material gets?

What is boning, how is it done, and how do you know when it needs to be done?

I'm sure I can find a good tutorial on how to dye leather, but at what point should it be done? Right after I cut the leather to size for my holster?

I'm sure I'll have more questions along the way. Thanks for any and all replies. Much appreciated!

[Russ]

Highland;

The Oz can be converted to 1/64 of an inch. So 8oz leather is 8/64 of an inch, or 1/8".

As for the weight of the leather for an OWB, it depends on the size of the gun, if you are going to line the holster, and type of holster (such as Avenger vs. Pancake). You'll also want to get the right part of the hide (such as the back or shoulder, vs. the belly). In general (a very dangerous statement), I'd say 8/9oz is a good place to start.

Veg tanning vs. chrome tanning is just how the leather is tanned. For molded holsters, you need to use veg tanned leather.

I use contact cement that I buy from Tandy. There's other brands available.

Slicking the edges lays the fibers down on the edge of the leather where it's been cut, by you, for the correct sized piece of leather. It may also be where two pieces are joined together. Some water and elbow grease, with a coarse material, are the main ingredients. I use glycerin soap also to assist. Search out Hidepounder's thread here on LW.net on finishing edges, it will give you the step-by-step.

To mold the leather you have to get it wet. Experimentation will tell you the technique you like best. I dunk mine in hot water. I've found that my holsters get "harder" if I bake them. Some folks do this, some folks disagree with it. Your leather will get stiffer as it dries.

Boning is rubbing in the impressions as you are molding. I start boning almost immediately after taking the leather from the water dunk (after shaking the excess water off and giving it a few seconds to dry).

In addition to the tutorial you've mentioned, search out threads by Particle here on LW.net. Also, within those threads you'll find a link to a video he's done, that will also help answer some of your questions.

Russ

Hey there. I have absolutely no experience with leather, but I really want to make a holster for a handgun that I can't find one for. I've been doing as much reading as I can for the past few days, including the tutorial here: http://leatherworker...showtopic=5696. Got a coupla questions though:

OK, so the most embarrassing one first: what do the different weights of leather pertain to? 8/9OZ, 3/4OZ, these numbers are a mystery to me. What would be the best choice for an OWB holster?

What's the difference between vegetable tanning and chrome tanning? Which is better for what I'm trying to make?

What do you use to glue leather in place, and where can you buy it?

In step 14 of the tutorial I linked he talks about waxing and slicking the edges that aren't stitched. What's the purpose of this, and how exactly is it done?

Is there a better way of molding leather than dunking it in hot water? Is there a way to control just how hard the material gets?

What is boning, how is it done, and how do you know when it needs to be done?

I'm sure I can find a good tutorial on how to dye leather, but at what point should it be done? Right after I cut the leather to size for my holster?

I'm sure I'll have more questions along the way. Thanks for any and all replies. Much appreciated!

[Highlands858]

Thanks for the quick reply.

It's for a CZ-75, a mid-sized but all-steel (heavy) 9mm. I'm not planning on lining the holster, and I'm going for the Avenger style holster, if that's what was shown in the tutorial I linked. Am still good with 8/9OZ, or do I want to go heavier/lighter?

Thanks for the Hidepounder link, I'll use that.

One other question: what do most people use to stitch leather, and where do you get it?

Thanks again!

[Russ]

I carry an HK compact .45 off duty. It's very heavy. I built it with 11/12 oz leather, and tried to use the thickest part. I'm on my third year of carry with it, built in the style that Particle shows in his You-Tube video, and no problems. I'd probably not use 8/9 oz, if it's not going to be lined.

You can hand stitch leather, or buy a leather stitcher. Do you have a Tandy store near you? To hand stitch, you'll need an awl, thread, and a couple of needles. A stitching pony would be handy but not an absolute requirement. I would suggest taking a trip to Tandy and getting some hands on advice to get you started.

Leather sewing machines are very expensive. There's a whole sub-forum on them and several people here who can give you excellent advice. But you'll only want to buy one if you're going to be selling items. Too expensive otherwise.

Again, I'd go to Tandy and talk to them and eyeball the things you need. Once you make your first holster, your buddies will love it and want one for themselves. You'll easily pay for the hand tools you bought.

Thanks for the quick reply.

It's for a CZ-75, a mid-sized but all-steel (heavy) 9mm. I'm not planning on lining the holster, and I'm going for the Avenger style holster, if that's what was shown in the tutorial I linked. Am still good with 8/9OZ, or do I want to go heavier/lighter?

Thanks for the Hidepounder link, I'll use that.

One other question: what do most people use to stitch leather, and where do you get it?

Thanks again!

[Big O]

I tend to agree that 8/9oz leather would be perfectly fine for an OWB holster for a CZ75, especially an Avenger style. It's what I typically use, and with the reinforcement of the wraparound piece, it's plenty sturdy. For compact pistols, I've found that even 6/7oz works. I could see using heavier leather for a pancake holster, which lacks that reinforcement. I've tried making IWB holsters out of 8/9oz, and it's like carrying a brick in your pants......6/7oz is pretty much the max for that, in my opinion.

The tanning process is what determines, to a large extent, how rigid the leather will be. Vegetable-tanned leather is firmer than chrome- or oil-tanned leather, and can be molded. This makes it well-suited for holsters and sheaths, and ill-suited for clothing.

I'm currently using Eco-Flo Leathercraft Cement to glue leather. I've used superglue gel before. In my opinion, the only purpose of any glue in holstermaking is to hold the leather in place long enough for you to stitch it together, so I *personally* don't think it much matters. At some point, I might even try Elmer's. LoL

Slicking leather is somewhat similar to sanding wood, in the sense that you start with a coarse tool and finish with a smooth tool. The difference is wetting/waxing the leather. For a broke newbie MacGuyver solution, you can use water, a piece of denim, and a Sharpie marker. Just wet your finger and run it along the edge you want to smooth out. Then rub the (rough) denim across it vigorously. Follow up using the (smooth) BODY of the Sharpie (the color is irrelevant, since you're only using the container, not the contents). Once you save up just a few pennies, you might buy a hardwood burnishing tool that can be used in a Dremel or a drill press. That's a lot faster, and takes a lot less work.

When "casing" leather for wet-molding, the water doesn't necessarily have to be hot. You can also use denatured alcohol instead of water, which speeds air-drying time. For that matter, you could use denatured alcohol to dilute your dye, and do your molding before it dries, but I wouldn't recommend it, because that would tend to make the end product a bit splotchy, and your blue gun or real gun a bit messy. Applying low heat to cased leather hardens it. Apparently, heating leather to about 130 degrees for about 30 minutes causes chemical changes within the leather that make it rigid. I learned that from this forum, somewhere. So, I tried it, and found that it works. I use this highly technical process in which I suspend the wet, freshly molded holster with the gun still in it in a cardboard box about three feet in front of a handheld hair dryer set on "High" while a cooking timer counts down from the 30-minute mark. It works. It goes without saying that you only do this with water, not with alcohol. Don't think that you can just put the holster in the oven and set it at 150, because 150 isn't all THAT much more than 130. Ovens are devious and evil, and THEY LIE!!!! You'll end up with a holster that looks like a pork rind.

Boning.....you can make the leather conform to the BASIC shape of the handgun using only your fingers. For detail, though, you'll need something hard. The round end of the aforementioned Sharpie marker works well for this, and the tip of its cap is small enough for SOME fine detailing. I use the "non-business" end of my groovers for boning. the larger, rounded end of my adjustable stitching groover works well for pressing the leather HARD against the pistol, and the much smaller end of the freehand groover works well for following slide lines and defining the ejection port, trigger guard, levers, pins, etc.

DEFINITELY invest in stitching groovers. Having your stitches in a groove not only protects the stitches, but keeps them in line - literally. Grooves can also serve as decoration, even in spots where there are no stitches.

Different folks do their dyeing at different points in the process. Some do it as a final step before applying a finish. I like to do it after grooving and initial burnishing, but before glueing and stitching. I'm not sure there's a "right" way to do it in that regard. I use denatured alcohol to cut my dye, and brush it on using a 2" paintbrush, brushing every which way, in several coats until I get the desired result. I hang the dyed leather up to dry. If I'm smart that particular week, I just leave it alone to dry for at least a day. If I'm not that smart, I sometimes get to thinking that it's "dry enough" after a few hours, because it feels dry on the outside. (Don't be that guy)

Keep looking around this forum. It's a GREAT resource. And the only stupid question is the one that you realize you SHOULD have asked........afterwards......

[Highlands858]

Awesome replies! I'm headed out to a Tandy's and a leather distributor that says they sell holster leather.

Just a couple more quick questions before I head out:

What's the difference between leather finish, leather conditioner, and leather sealer? Do I need all three, or are they all the same thing?

[Big O]

All I use is Resolene.

[Highlands858]

The results of my first leather project:

Thanks everyone for all the help, both to the questions I asked and the ones I didn't have to from reading. I welcome any and all criticism, especially tips on how to improve.

Functionally I'm 90% satisfied with this holster. I find it aesthetically pleasing as well, though I wasn't going for a look this rough. What's the best way to get a cleaner paint job apart from using a spray gun? I don't have a compressor handy, so that's out of the question for me.

The last picture highlights some of the main problems I had. I grooved both sides before folding and gluing the holster, and when I went to stitch it I missed the groove on the back side. Is it better to bevel, groove, and stitch after gluing and sanding the edges even, or am I doing something wrong?

The last picture also shows how I had a tough time making the finer cuts in tight places like the belt loop (there really is a curve there, it's just stretched out because it wasn't matching the other loop right.) I used trauma shears for most of the cuts on this, which worked OK. What kinds of cheap tools are people using for tighter cuts? An exacto knife would probably work better than shears, but is there something even better?

The belt loop looks a little blah. I'll definitely be taking a little more time with it next time.

Also, is there a way to cut grooves for the stitching that isn't along the sides of the holster without going freehand? Do many people do this? It seems like it would mostly be for looks since the stitching is pretty well-protected there, but I'm curious.

What's the best way to hide the stitches? I tried to put mine under the belt loop, but there has to be a better way. I don't know anything about stitches other than to pull them tight. Enlighten me!

Also, what's the best way to rub gum tragacanth deep down inside the holster after you stitch it up? Or is it better to do that before sewing it as well?

And a couple of completely unrelated questions:

What's a lined holster lined with? Just another piece of leather with the skin side out?

If I wanted to attach a metal clip to say, a phone case, what's the best way to do this? Are there specific clips for leather work, and if so where do I find them?

Thanks again for all the help. I'm going to wear this for about a month to try to expose any design flaws that weren't immediately apparent to me, then give it another go. With any luck I'll be even happier with my next one!

[jimmy eng]

In regards to your stitching, it looks like you're just using a single needle to thread in and out. To hand stitch it's best to use the two needle method but if you're going to use a single needle thread in and out all the way in one direction then reverse back until the beginning (the stitching should look like the stitching on the seams of a t-shirt, close and after one another). That way you get the same look as the double needle but for me it's never neater or rewarding. Buy The art of hand sewing leather by Al Stohlman, it explains a lot (helped me immensely) and look up youtube videos.

Both pieces of the leather has to be aligned before sewing so at least trim the edges flush to each other. You can finish the edge later on if you prefer. To get both sides in the groove you have to watch where the awl enters and where it exits and stab slowly. If you see that it doesn't exit out of the groove line then pull the awl out and try again. Get a stitch spacer (it looks like a blunt pinwheel) probably in a number 7; you run it along the groove and it marks where your awl should pierce. Helps a lot for even stitches.

I like the roughness of the belt loop, at first I thought it was on purpose because it made the back of the holster look like the shape of a state. It could be a design feature when the rest of the holster is really rigid in appearance.

[TwinOaks]

The results of my first leather project:

Thanks everyone for all the help, both to the questions I asked and the ones I didn't have to from reading. I welcome any and all criticism, especially tips on how to improve.

Functionally I'm 90% satisfied with this holster. I find it aesthetically pleasing as well, though I wasn't going for a look this rough. What's the best way to get a cleaner paint job apart from using a spray gun? I don't have a compressor handy, so that's out of the question for me.

First, clean the leather with an alcohol wipe to remove fingerprint smudges, oil, and dirt. Then, dilute the dye and build up the color. You can still spray without a compressor using a Preval Sprayer, which you can find at Tandy, or even at some auto parts stores. If you're using something like the 'all-in-one', moisten the leather first and use a damp cloth to apply the all in one.

The last picture highlights some of the main problems I had. I grooved both sides before folding and gluing the holster, and when I went to stitch it I missed the groove on the back side. Is it better to bevel, groove, and stitch after gluing and sanding the edges even, or am I doing something wrong?

Glue everything together and let it dry. Cut/sand/finish your edges to make them even...then mark the stitch line. When you punch the holes, keep the awl perfectly perpendicular to the leather - straight through, and watch the back side of the leather to see where the point is coming out. If it's in the wrong place, pull back a little and move toward the line.

The last picture also shows how I had a tough time making the finer cuts in tight places like the belt loop (there really is a curve there, it's just stretched out because it wasn't matching the other loop right.) I used trauma shears for most of the cuts on this, which worked OK. What kinds of cheap tools are people using for tighter cuts? An exacto knife would probably work better than shears, but is there something even better?

Make the ends of the slot with a hole punch, then connect the holes with an exacto knife or better yet a chisel. I picked up a cheap stiff putty knife and put an edge on it and it works just fine.

The belt loop looks a little blah. I'll definitely be taking a little more time with it next time.

The belt loop on back looks like it got 'floppy'. When you have a piece of leather that will have exposed edges that are NOT on the edge of the work, go ahead and slick/burnish those edges before assembly. Don't do the edge that will match with another to make a double thickness- you'll do both of those together. When you get all the stretching and forming done, bake the holster at 125 F for about 15 minutes. This causes the collagen (molecular glue) inside the leather to 'set' in place. I've also found that heated leather takes oil/conditioner much better.

Also, is there a way to cut grooves for the stitching that isn't along the sides of the holster without going freehand? Do many people do this? It seems like it would mostly be for looks since the stitching is pretty well-protected there, but I'm curious.

The tool is called a 'freehand stitch groover', and you can get one at Tandy.

What's the best way to hide the stitches? I tried to put mine under the belt loop, but there has to be a better way. I don't know anything about stitches other than to pull them tight. Enlighten me!

Jimmy described the hand stitching pretty well. I'll only add that the multi-tip awl sold by Tandy is too big of a hole for hand stitching. Get the Osborne one. Keep the blade at the same angle on each hole. The needle's eye should be just large enough to slide on the thread, but no larger. The hole in the leather should be just big enough to get the needle through by hand the first time, and need pliers to pull the needle through on the second pass. I use waxed linen thread from Hobby Lobby, and the two smallest needles in a multi needle pack from walmart.

Also, what's the best way to rub gum tragacanth deep down inside the holster after you stitch it up? Or is it better to do that before sewing it as well?

If you're going to treat the inside of the holster, mark where you will be gluing and stitching, then apply the treatment everywhere other than the marked areas....before assembly.

And a couple of completely unrelated questions:

What's a lined holster lined with? Just another piece of leather with the skin side out?

Lining leather is typically veg-tan with the grain (smooth) side facing in. Some folks, like Katsass, will use a lighter weight leather, but bond two pieces so they have smooth leather on both sides and it equals the thickness of a thicker piece of leather. That provides outstanding results.

If I wanted to attach a metal clip to say, a phone case, what's the best way to do this? Are there specific clips for leather work, and if so where do I find them?

You can get the clips at hobby stores, Tandy, or some of the suppliers who have ad banners at the top of the page. There's a small hole in them, through which a rivet is used to secure the clip to the item. I've found it better to have a separate piece of leather attached to the clip, then sewn onto the main piece. That avoids having a piece of metal inside the piece scratching things.

Thanks again for all the help. I'm going to wear this for about a month to try to expose any design flaws that weren't immediately apparent to me, then give it another go. With any luck I'll be even happier with my next one !

Be very cautious using this holster for anything but testing. The single thread stitching may hold up, it may not. You don't want to have your pistol hit the ground.

[katsass]

OK, FWIW from the old grumpy guy; Twin Oaks has just about covered everything except for two points IMO. First ... Get Al Stohlman's book 'How To Make Holsters' , it's inexpensive and has pictures and info that you'll be able to use from now on. Second ..... Slow down and take your time. Mike