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C.s. Osborne Carriage Handle Pricking Wheels

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I have an earlier C.S. Osborne carriage style pricking wheel handle with a few pricking wheels, I would like to acquire a few more wheels namely the #'s 5, 6, 9, 11 and 12.

Any help in locating and/or acquiring any of them is gratefully appreciated !!!!

Best Regards,

N.A.T

Edited by Not Awl Together

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Check with Bruce Johnson. brucejohnsonleather.com

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Thanks J Hayes,

I've been in touch with Bruce and he is checking out what he may have. I realize that trying to just acquire the pricking wheels I'm after sans the carriage handle is a long shot consequently, I'm also willing to purchase additional handles as long as the pricking wheels I'm looking for are in them to complete what I need.

Best Regards,

N.A.T

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Update:

Unfortunately, Bruce does not have any carriage style pricking wheels at this time..... Any assistance is still very much appreciated

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vergez blanchard has pricking wheels that may fit. Minimum order is 100 euros from the official website. Sean at fineleatherworking.com is their wholesale distributer and can get it for you w/ out the minimum order requirements.

Edited by DavidL

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Thanks for the reply David,

I have spoken to Bruce about it since he has them and was informed that the Blanchard wheels are larger in diameter and unfortunately won't fit in the frame.

The Osborne wheels are smaller...... approximately 11/16 outside diameter.

The hunt continues..........

N.A.T.

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Dixon pricking wheels may fit, they also customize tools for customers and may be able to make a wheel that fits.

Im looking for a pricking wheel w/ an edge guide vergez blanchard has one for 300+ shipped (w/ 4 wheels) which is the nicest one, too expensive though. Dixon has one for 140 for the frame and extra for the wheels. Anyone have a pricking wheel w/ edge guide? Im cautious when buying new dixon tools as they are a gamble if they are good quality or mediocre quality.

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why not stick with pricking irons ?

much easier to use, although, more expensive certainly

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I can't get the iron to run parallel to the edge. Always a mm off or I can see it run slightly to the left or right. Not a huge deal to most, I am a perfectionist so I want it to be exactly parallel. I will hit it with an iron once the marks of the pricking wheel are laid down.

It will cost 350-500 for 2 irons and a edge guided pricking wheel w/ 2-4 wheels. I guess the advantages are that it will always be parallel on both sides and the backside will be marked w/ an impression.

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you just need to practice to get better at straight lines with the pricking iron.

you are scribing a light stitch line with a compass or dividers (or straight edge) to follow with your pricking iron, right?

Edited by LTC

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Well, there are many ways around that

None of which would cost you money on tools you don't need :spoton:

BTW, I take it you haven't tried a pricking wheel, they are not easy to use well, especially if you are looking for sub mm accuracy !

On thin leather, forget it, they are meant for thick, stuffed leather straps for harnesses etc

On thin leather you will get a lot of distortion/stretching of the leather as you have to apply significant pressure to get a decent mark.

With a little practice you should manage good straight lines with a pricking iron.

Couple of tips to get you going.

prick the layout on graph paper, get it perfect then use that as a template, this is also good for corners

when moving the pricking iron along the leather, overlay the previous strike by 3 marks (most people use 1), 3 will keep the line straighter.

Bit of practice is all you need, not more tools.

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Thank you for the responses,

Macca, I'm unsure whether you were addressing David or myself, in response to your reply I do have and use a set of Osborne pricking irons in 6,7,8 spi. They were not of a ready to use high finish condition when received however, I did put in some considerable time with jewelers files leveling, and sharpening the teeth and side dressing them on a waterwheel to even up the height of the pricks from end to end. They now work considerably better than when received.

I would rather invest time and funds in the pricking wheels I'm after to complete my kit in lieu of spending more funds at the moment on expensive additional irons, I'm trying to set aside the difference in funds for a Keystone splitter/ skiver and a likely a Chase splitter as well. I'm hopeful and optimistic that the wheels I'm looking for will eventually turn up.

Thanks again for your time and responses,

N.A.T.

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I have been doing all those things with the exception of the graph paper which I will try ( I have trouble with the stitching looking symmetrical to the other side for the corners, nothing major though). I plan to use the wheel w/ edge guide on wicket and craig vegtan (i hear its softer than HO, but its still hard since its vegtan)

Does it react similarly to an overstitch wheel? I can always proper impressions with an overstitch on vegtan. W/ the edge guard on the tool it will act like a scratch compass w/ an overstitch type impression on the leather? All I need from the pricking wheel with edge guide is for a slight indentation so the pricking iron will fall into the groove.

you just need to practice to get better at straight lines with the pricking iron.

you are scribing a light stitch line with a compass or dividers (or straight edge) to follow with your pricking iron, right?

Thats what I'm doing and I haven't seen much improvement even though I got a good set up going. I scribe a line 3mm away from the edge w/ a scratch compass and use a dixon 7 SPI (big teeth compared to vergez blanchard). I press slightly on the line so I can see a slight impression in the leather and then if it looks straight I put the iron over the impression and hit. For the next stitch I place 3 teeth overlapping from the previous stitch and repeat.

Looking at the finished product I can see areas where the teeth run 1mm left. The next hit with the hammer I hit it a mm right, that creates a crooked line ever so slightly.

In theory I believe it should work for me if I take a pricking wheel w/ an edge guide so that it will create a perfectly straight teeth impression. Hit the front with a regular iron on the impression. Next use the pricking wheel w/ edge guide on the backside w/ an inverse wheel and prick with a inverse pricking iron. It would also fix the backside problem of my stitches having minimal angle.

Wont know how well it will work till I test out

A. The pricking wheel ease of use.

B. how the stitches will look with an inverse pricking iron the backside.

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Thank you for the responses,

Macca, I'm unsure whether you were addressing David or myself, in response to your reply I do have and use a set of Osborne pricking irons in 6,7,8 spi. They were not of a ready to use high finish condition when received however, I did put in some considerable time with jewelers files leveling, and sharpening the teeth and side dressing them on a waterwheel to even up the height of the pricks from end to end. They now work considerably better than when received.

I would rather invest time and funds in the pricking wheels I'm after to complete my kit in lieu of spending more funds at the moment on expensive additional irons, I'm trying to set aside the difference in funds for a Keystone splitter/ skiver and a likely a Chase splitter as well. I'm hopeful and optimistic that the wheels I'm looking for will eventually turn up.

Thanks again for your time and responses,

N.A.T.

Sorry, my reply was aimed at David

The Osbornes don't come up too often, but good luck in your search !

@ David, seriously, just put the practice in ! No point trying to work around poor technique

Edited by Macca

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Thank you for the responses,

Macca, I'm unsure whether you were addressing David or myself, in response to your reply I do have and use a set of Osborne pricking irons in 6,7,8 spi. They were not of a ready to use high finish condition when received however, I did put in some considerable time with jewelers files leveling, and sharpening the teeth and side dressing them on a waterwheel to even up the height of the pricks from end to end. They now work considerably better than when received.

I would rather invest time and funds in the pricking wheels I'm after to complete my kit in lieu of spending more funds at the moment on expensive additional irons, I'm trying to set aside the difference in funds for a Keystone splitter/ skiver and a likely a Chase splitter as well. I'm hopeful and optimistic that the wheels I'm looking for will eventually turn up.

Thanks again for your time and responses,

N.A.T.

I sorta highjacked your thread Not Awl Together, I couldn't help myself...

How are the impression on regular veg tan like wicket and craig or HO?

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In theory I believe it should work for me if I take a pricking wheel w/ an edge guide so that it will create a perfectly straight teeth impression. Hit the front with a regular iron on the impression. Next use the pricking wheel w/ edge guide on the backside w/ an inverse wheel and prick with a inverse pricking iron. It would also fix the backside problem of my stitches having minimal angle.

Just noticed this part... errr....

NO !

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It may not be the traditional way, but I don't think I can get the accuracy down to get the teeth that are 3mm wide and balance 1.5mm on one side and 1.5mm on the other side. No matter how straight I put down the iron I will always get it to run uneven.

On my 9 spi vergez iron the teeth are tiny and I can control it a lot easier, with less mistakes. Still I have the issue of the backstitches that lay nearly flat and not angled like in Nigel armitage's videos. I can't pin point where the problem is which is whats bothering me.

It could be the leathers too soft and the hole closes up quickly.

my awl is too slim so the hole is more round than diamond on the backstitch.

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don't try & get it centred on a scribe line

Put a very fine line down & line up the teeth on the edge of the scribe line

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Nigel says to straddle the scribed stitch line, but ok.

also, David...check out your work area. it may help if you are physically closer to your work (i.e. reduce the distance between your head and your bench)...it should help you be able to see better.

some folks even wear reading glasses or jeweler's magnifier to be able to see better. once you can see your work more closely, you may find it easier to straddle that stitch line.

just some ideas...

Edited by LTC

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Thats a good ideas that I will try. Especially reading glasses and to line the teeth on the edge. That makes it so much easier. Backside still doesn't have an angle on my work. Another member says he used an inverse iron and it worked well to create an backside angle.

Correct me if I'm wrong the reason the front looks better than the back is because it is hit by the iron and creates a permanent impression and the awl impression is better from the front side. I find when I hit the iron, then use the awl to pierce the front where the impression are set the front side looks exactly the same as before. So if I used a inverse pricking iron on the backside then when I pierce through, the front and back will look the same, along with the angle the thread lays?

My awl is also very slim 30mm and I'm using it at 7 SPI, 56mm is too large. What size is the standard for 7SPI?

Edited by DavidL

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Well, Ideally you want to straddle the line

But if the alternative it to try & use 4 steps to mark a stitch line then go ahead & line it on the edge.

You just need to put the practice in, it will come together..

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Well, Ideally you want to straddle the line

But if the alternative it to try & use 4 steps to mark a stitch line then go ahead & line it on the edge.

You just need to put the practice in, it will come together..

alright, I will practice some more and see if it works out. Frustrating to keep practicing and there is no improvement..

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just remember...practice doesn't make perfect -- perfect practice does.

strive to make perfect, straight lines every time. you'll get it.

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Macca,

Thanks for the clarification and your valued insight to the conversation, we are all here to share and learn, I wasn't offended in the least and appreciate your kindness.

David,

Not to worry, I'm not in the least offended by "hijacking", I'm to old to get wound up by such things and find many kernels of wisdom on the pathways of broader conversations with several participants.

To answer your question with respect to the irons, they work quite well now.

If I might leave a thought or a comment based on personal experience that may be relevant and is not in any way meant to offend anyone.

I went through a formal 8 year, 16,000 hr. apprenticeship in another craft. Upon completion, I had the idea that I had all of the technical skills necessary to work within my craft, I was sorely mistaken. My education really began after apprenticeship working on many things that never crossed my path while in school. I have since then over the years taken away much more information and problem solving skills from many other craftspeople that I've had the pleasure working with than I could have ever hoped for.

In my own personal experience, I have witnessed many highly talented individuals perform and execute extraordinary work with rudimentary tools. Having said that, high quality tools can make difficult processes of a project much easier to perform but,.... not always.

The ease and quality of craftwork lies solely on the individual using the tools and materials at hand and developing what one of my former masters that I apprenticed under used to say, "doing everything with feeling"

Apologies for being so long winded,

Regards,

N.A.T.

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Macca,

Thanks for the clarification and your valued insight to the conversation, we are all here to share and learn, I wasn't offended in the least and appreciate your kindness.

David,

Not to worry, I'm not in the least offended by "hijacking", I'm to old to get wound up by such things and find many kernels of wisdom on the pathways of broader conversations with several participants.

To answer your question with respect to the irons, they work quite well now.

If I might leave a thought or a comment based on personal experience that may be relevant and is not in any way meant to offend anyone.

I went through a formal 8 year, 16,000 hr. apprenticeship in another craft. Upon completion, I had the idea that I had all of the technical skills necessary to work within my craft, I was sorely mistaken. My education really began after apprenticeship working on many things that never crossed my path while in school. I have since then over the years taken away much more information and problem solving skills from many other craftspeople that I've had the pleasure working with than I could have ever hoped for.

In my own personal experience, I have witnessed many highly talented individuals perform and execute extraordinary work with rudimentary tools. Having said that, high quality tools can make difficult processes of a project much easier to perform but,.... not always.

The ease and quality of craftwork lies solely on the individual using the tools and materials at hand and developing what one of my former masters that I apprenticed under used to say, "doing everything with feeling"

Apologies for being so long winded,

Regards,

N.A.T.

I think thats whats missing in my work the craftsman intuition and experience that a mastercraft man exude. Something that will come naturally I hope.

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