KBCustom Report post Posted January 30, 2015 Hello Everyone, I am brand new to the site, but have been working with leather for quite a few years now. I am 100% self taught, so many of my techniques could use refining. My current problem/question involve carving techniques. I have been noticing that while im in the middle of beveling and backgrounding a piece, parts of my leather ( where i have made cuts) starts to get very brittle and almost takes on an undercut look to it. I have tried applying a leather conditioner, but it seems to give me issues when i go to stain my piece. I have included pictures of examples to help explain my question as well. I need to figure out how to make my work look more crisp and refined. Any criticism is greatly appreciated. Thanks KB Custom leather Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NVLeatherWorx Report post Posted January 30, 2015 One thing that I was taught long ago was to not cut as deep as originally recommended (i.e. approximately half the thickness of the leather). Instead, cut slightly less than half the thickness so that when you bevel, and background where necessary you actually bevel and background to the approximate half thickness level but you will not see the "white" (the prominent grain of the cut line) and your definition of the pattern will be more prominent. The issue of taking on an undercut look can be attributed to improper casing of the leather (would make it feel firmer and resist beveling and burnishing as it is too dry) as well as improper tool angle (even tipped slightly forward it can still create an undercut look). The use of any conditioner prior to dyeing/staining is going to create a color issue as it creates a "block" so that the grain can not absorb the color as intended. Conditioners are not part of the tooling/stamping phase, they are a finish to the finished/colored project. From the images that you provided I don't see an undercut look but I do see that the cuts are deeper than the beveling depth; your beveling depth should, as a minimum, be as deep as the bottom of the cut so that you get a smooth transition/appearance to your beveling. And from the looks of it the leather was a bit dry so you didn't get the depth that you should have and you didn't get a good burnishing from the beveling. Someone else may see something different so take all of it in and put some of it to use in practice pieces and always continue to refine and practice every technique. Been doing this for over 40 years and it never ends when it comes to the learning and refining. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pete Report post Posted January 30, 2015 you are bevelling deeper than your cuts. Not the other way around. You are "pulling" the leather down . Cut deeper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Troy Burch Report post Posted January 30, 2015 I was taught to cut about a 1/3 into the leather. I had similar problems years ago when I started carving. Your moisture content is not right, to dry or to wet will cause you to see the cut lines after beveling. How deep are you cutting your leather? The pic seems to show alot of cut lines after you have beveled, I don't think you need to cut deeper because the cuts are still there, maybe you didn't bevel all the way to the bottom of your cuts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KBCustom Report post Posted January 30, 2015 I have been cutting about halfway through the leather. I try to tool my leather when it feels slightly damp to the touch. I generally wI'll try a small spot and if it isn't burnishing really well in that area I will come back to it. Is this piece destroyed or is there something I can do to save it? Since I made my cuts so deep, my bevelling is pretty deep as well I don't want to punch through the leather as I have in certain other spots since I like tooling deep. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Troy Burch Report post Posted January 30, 2015 You don't have to cut deep to have plenty of depth in the tooling. The beveler will bevel deeper than your cuts if the moisture is right. If you've cut thru the leather with your beveling before your probly cutting too deep. I don't know of any way to fix it, but if it's ruined anyway properly case it and try to rebevel. If I were you I'd get some scrap and cut different depths and see which works best. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KBCustom Report post Posted January 30, 2015 Thank you for your responses. I will continue to try and improve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
camano ridge Report post Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) KB what is your method for casing? A lot of people make the mistake of wiping a little water on the surface let it start to dry if it turning back toward natural color and feels cool you are ready to carve. not necassarily so. It takes more then moisture on the surface. If yo have not already done so read Hidepounders thread on casing leather http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=19121 There are other ways of casing leather the important thing is to get the corect moisture content throughout the leather not just on the surface. Edited January 31, 2015 by camano ridge Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KBCustom Report post Posted January 31, 2015 I generally spray the piece down with water, then I wait a while testing every so often until I can start tooling the area. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
terrymac Report post Posted January 31, 2015 Appears to me to be the a moisture issue. The deepest part of your cut should also burning the darkest when beveled. Camino is probably right in that your moisture is not deep enough. Terry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KBCustom Report post Posted January 31, 2015 I just read through the casing method. Very interesting. I want to see if I'm understanding it completely. Pre-tooling, I should wet the piece and place it in a bag or airtight container then come back to it in a day? From then on, after I start tooling, i need to keep the parts I am not tooling yet, covered. Would it also help to cover the areas I have tooled so it doesn't get wet or handled too often as well? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Troy Burch Report post Posted January 31, 2015 Wet the leather then let it dry back to almost normal color, then put in a bag in the fridge overnight. This will make the moisture content even thruout the leather not just wet on top. The way you were wetting your leather the beveler cant do its job on the middle and bottom where its too dry. uncover just enough at a time that you can tool that area before it loses its moisture. no need to recover what you've finished tooling. do the decorative cuts and back grounding last as they need less moisture. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tina Report post Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) The pictures looks exactly like a patience and casing problem. You have to wet the leather enough but also WAIT long enough to start the beveling. 1. Let the cased leather sit overnight in a bag. 2.Take out and then let "dry" until the surface looks and feels dry...Very important! 3. NOW is the time to start your work. These steps should take away your problems :-) Edited January 31, 2015 by Tina Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KBCustom Report post Posted February 4, 2015 I recently posted a thread about this issue and was given some tips I tried. My issue seems to be a dried out rough looking edge within my carving design. I've included pictures of the leather laying flat and bent to show the issue. I've also included a picture of how deep I am cutting with my swivel knife. The things I've tried: I have started casing my leather for 24 hours prior to cutting or bevelling. I never bevel or cut unless the leather is at the perfect moisture. I starting cutting less deep and bevelling less deep. The last thing I did was bought a better grade of leather. Can anyone see the issues I'm facing or am I being way too picky about my work? I have new picture I can upload tomorrow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
camano ridge Report post Posted February 4, 2015 That would be good KB You have posted this in three places and we have nothing new to look at. If you can post pictures wha tyou are now dealing with it would be helpful. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KBCustom Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Here are the newest pictures. I apologize for the delay on adding pictures. my phone was not allowing me to upload them last night. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thor Report post Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Are you having the same problem with a straight blade? I had that issue with the angled blade too once and found out that I wasn't actually cutting but rather scratching with it. I haven't gotten used to the angled blade and rarely use it anymore, but if I'm holding it in a flat angle so I'm cutting rather than scratching. Besides that,are you wetting your leather from both or just one side when casing? Edited February 12, 2015 by Thor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KBCustom Report post Posted February 12, 2015 To be honest, i haven't used a straight blade for a while so i don't remember if i had the same issues with it. i could do some test pieces to find out and report back. Since i have just started with this "new" casing method, i have only been wetting the front side, as i put contact paper on the back side to help from stretching the leather when i tool it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thor Report post Posted February 12, 2015 How about trying one piece without contact paper and wetting from both sides? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KBCustom Report post Posted February 12, 2015 i figured i wouldn't be able to get the contact paper to stick after it had been wet. Yeah i can try some different things and see what works better. thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JLSleather Report post Posted February 12, 2015 How thick is the cow? Above about 6 oz leather, I don't stick it to anything to tool - isn't necessary. But then, my leather has never been in the fridge, far as I can remember Minus the fancy speeches, leather should be cased if you're embossing up a good distance. For "flat" articles (tooled in only) you can wet and go. This simple design was done the other day in a few hours.... from cutting the strip off the hide to setting aside to dry (paint 'n' stitchin' extra)... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KBCustom Report post Posted February 12, 2015 I generally work with from hides that are anywhere from 6-9 oz. The only reason i have gotten in a habit of using contact paper behind each project, i was tooling a planner book and had used contact to that point. It wasn't until i was nearly finished tooling, that i realized my hide had stretched more than i could fix. Ultimately i had to pitch the project and start over. So, i just decided after learning about contact paper, that i would use that to ensure i wasn't going to be having that issue again. Hides are too expensive for stupid mistakes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Northmount Report post Posted February 12, 2015 I think what I see is trouble with following the cut with the beveler. It could be how you are holding the beveler, or it could be that your swivel knife is undercutting on curves. Keep your knife blade perpendicular to the leather. Tom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MonicaJacobson Report post Posted February 13, 2015 I've been thoroughly wetting the leather on both sides, letting it dry out a bit, casing it in the 'fridge overnight, then letting it air dry almost to natural color. By that time, as long as your project isn't gigantic, you can put tape on the back side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
