What Machine For Sewing Gusset Corners On Messenger Bags?

[najram2007]

Im looking for a cylinder arm machine that is best for sew messenger bag gusset corners. Any ideas? I understand a cylinder arm is the best option but which one im not sure. The leather is a 7-8oz in the picture below. Also what attachments are the best to use?? Presser feet?? Seam Guides?? needle plates??

Edited June 5, 2013 by najram2007

[PcCowboy]

I use my Adler 205-370 with the curve plate (table) installed.

[najram2007]

Thanks PcCowboy. The 205 look like a good machine for the job. The cylinder is about 80mm? How do you go around a smaller radius? Do you use a different needle plate?

[PcCowboy]

I make round bottom leather bags for a company once in a while and that is my main experience with sewing round gussets. The bottoms are 10 1/2 inche circles. I have sewn a few purses with round gussets, about 1" radius in each corner, and it was hard and you had to be careful. It comes with a half moon needle plate and a flat one.

[tnawrot2]

You could use a 441clone

, Cobra 4 or a Cowboy 4500, with a stirrup plate for small radius.

[najram2007]

I was considering a 441 and 205 with a stirrup plate. Ive been reading that its really hard to get the tension right for the stirrup plate. But im sure there are stirrup plate users out there who don't have any trouble with it. its all about persistence I guess. How about grinding down the front of the presser feet and have the work above the machine instead of below. Will this work??

[Jimbob]

I use an Adler 105-64 and rounded head plate....been making many of these kind of bags over the last 4 years...

[silverwingit]

I just took a look at your web site, Jimbob -- very impressive! What machine do you use for your holsters, shoulder bags and pouches? Thanks, your new fan, Michelle

[Trox]

I was considering a 441 and 205 with a stirrup plate. Ive been reading that its really hard to get the tension right for the stirrup plate. But im sure there are stirrup plate users out there who don't have any trouble with it. its all about persistence I guess. How about grinding down the front of the presser feet and have the work above the machine instead of below. Will this work??

You need to back off the top tension quite a bit on the 441, because of the extra height of the needle plate (the thread loops get longer). However, it not difficult to get right.

I reduced the height of my Cowboy stirrup plate a bit, it made the machine much easier to adjust and reduced stitch errors with this plate. You best use the left or right harness foot for the job, they do not need any modification.

Machines with lower duty rating (upholstery class triple feed cyl. bed`s) who are good for the job are; Pfaff 335, Adler 69 (clones of these narrow arm machines). Adler 169, 269 and above (Ø 80 mm arm) with a bag plate. All kinds of feet's available for these machines.

Older heavy stitcher's : Adler 205- 25 MO and Adler 105- 25 MO (and more; top feed with small stirrup/bag plate and heavy threads)

Tor

[Andrew Chee]

There's a couple of this you ideally need to do to make a good gusset. You have to skive the gusset piece so it bends more than the main panels. Then you should use contact glue to assemble the pieces before sewing. I use a 441 clone with a stirrup plate and it works fine. I don't need to readjust my tension at all, just the stitch length. After you sew it, you sand the edges until they are even and any residual glue is gone. Then you finish the edges. Looks like you might have tried to out in a liner in your pic. Unless the liner is leather, it won't work cause fabric will fray over time. Hope that helps.

Andrew

[najram2007]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I put an order in for a Cobra class 4 from the only Australian supplier, Queensland sewing machines. The owner Greg is awesome and so helpful! Cant wait to get it. Should be next month some time. Andrew,, It is a leather liner. The bag in the picture isn't my make, Its a bag a picked up at a second hand store. Tor, how do you reduce the height of your stirrup plate? Thanks, Marj

[Andrew Chee]

You don't need to reduce the height if the stirrup plate. It will work just fine as is. Make sure you use a right toe presser foot Ecuador that's what the plate was designed for. You have to lengthen the stitch length because the stirrup plate requires that you remove the feed dog and that reduces the contact on the leather thereby reducing the stitch length which has to be compensate by increasing the stitch length. Also be more careful when you go around the bend because the stitches tend to bunch up a bit around these tricky areas. Not a big deal, just something to watch out for.

Andrew

[Trox]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I put an order in for a Cobra class 4 from the only Australian supplier, Queensland sewing machines. The owner Greg is awesome and so helpful! Cant wait to get it. Should be next month some time. Andrew,, It is a leather liner. The bag in the picture isn't my make, Its a bag a picked up at a second hand store. Tor, how do you reduce the height of your stirrup plate? Thanks, Marj

Hi Marj,

I bought the plate I am talking about from Cowboy, it was to height for my use (for several other members too). I reduced the height with my bench grinder, slack belt grinder and Dremel tool (made a small flat foot support on the top of it, sorry no pic`s). Made sure it kept cool all the time not to mess with the tempering. Finally, I cleaned it up with a Dremel and gave it a good polish on the buffing wheel, pretty much like I modify any other sewing attachment that needs it.

There are different stirrup/ bag plates out there; this is maybe the highest of them. It steals capacity from the foot lift and its curved form makes a bad support for the sewing feet. The perfect stirrup/ bag plate would also allow use of the feed dog underneath as a needle guide. (It’s a big job to change to this plate from a regular one) A member friend designed and sent me a 3D printed stirrup plate that is about perfect. It’s a bit high because of the material in use (it’s a plastic compound and needs to be thick), it works very well).

The CB stirrup plate also have a too narrow feet (sewing) support, when you use the double harness foot the right toe has no support; It hits outside the plate. The foot is 12 mm and the support on the plate is only 8 mm wide. I do not have a right toe harness foot yet (in order), but others report it hits outside the plate (of course it does; it has the same position as the right toe of the double foot).

This is clearly a manufacturer error, these attachments are all from the same brand (and plate is made for use with this feet’s).

There have been allot of discussion about the difference in material between clone brands accessories, the fact is they all look the same. My guess is they all are too, that’s how things works in China, one factory one part (more or less of course)

We spend allot of time telling others about how great our equipment are, it is important we post about the faults too. Or else we cannot expect any development and better tools.

When we talk about thread tension and if you have to adjust or not using this plate; it is of course depended of the conditions and the pre change settings. (Some use much tension others less, thread, size, lube or not, feed dog or not etc.) There are differences in threading and tension disk setups too. You can’t compare with out use the same of everything and it’s not important anyway.

Most of the accessories for these machine works great and do not need any modification, it somewhat surprising this plate has faults.

Tor

Edited July 20, 2013 by Trox

[Andrew Chee]

This is interesting. The plate I have comes from cobra Steve and was designed to use just with a right toe presser foot. There's no room for the left toe. It's also not designed for use with a feed dog. It is pretty high so the sewing capacity is definitely lessened but I guess you trade capacity for clearance. I'm interested in looking at this 3d printed plate. Can you post a picture of it? Is it durable enough with the constant thumping of the feet?

Andrew

[Trox]

This is interesting. The plate I have comes from cobra Steve and was designed to use just with a right toe presser foot. There's no room for the left toe. It's also not designed for use with a feed dog. It is pretty high so the sewing capacity is definitely lessened but I guess you trade capacity for clearance. I'm interested in looking at this 3d printed plate. Can you post a picture of it? Is it durable enough with the constant thumping of the feet?

Andrew

HI,

both Wiz and I have received one each, mine was the second and a improved model. You can use the feed dog under it and it wide enough for the harness foot. I cannot post a picture without asking the member who made it first, because it is possible it going in production. It has an improved construction to make it stronger. Although, its very strong it is best suited as a prototype. I will ask for permission to post a pic of it here later today.

Tor

[GoldenKnight]

A few months have passed by. Still no picture. Need a status update when you get a chance, please.

This is something that is on my upcoming list of projects as I am narrowing my final thoughts on purchasing a new sewing machine. So ... I'm trying to see which machine and options I need to make sure I get when I order my machine.

Edited September 28, 2013 by GoldenKnight

[MadMorbius]

I've been sewing round corners on messenger bags on a flat table Juki LU563 for some time. What's the purpose of the stirrup plate in this scenario? Is the idea here that you can pull the excess material out of the way of the feed?

[CCPhotog]

I just pulled the trigger on a CB3200; will it work for bags like this?

[Palermo]

Yes the CB3200 will do the job. But stitching round gusset corners takes a lot of skill. The stirrup plate gives a lot of help. I would recommend practice on scrap pieces. The best (meaning easiest) machine for stitching round gussets in my opinion are shoe patchers

[Wizcrafts]

Due to its limited lift, the stirrup plate is impractical on the CB3200. The stirrup plate is 1/2 inch tall and the feet can only raise 5/8 inch above the low throat plate. The presser feet need at least 1/8 inch clearance to alternate up and down. Thus, if we subtract 1/2 (4/8) from 5/8 inch, we are left with 1/8 inch - 1/8 inch for foot alternation = zero thickness can be sewn.

The amount of alternating foot lift can be varied by moving a crank that protrudes out of the back of the body, up or down in a curved slot on a housing on the back. In practice, one could move the presser foot control lever all the way up, reducing the amount of alternation to maybe 3/32 inches. This would allow you to use the stirrup plate to sew about 1/16 inch of leather, before the mechanism binds.

One could buy a Cowboy, Cobra or Techsew stirrup plate and have it ground down to 3/8 inch rise, then reshaped and polished. This would allow the CB3200 to sew into about 8 ounces of leather.