What Does Cross Grain Mean?

[cleanview]

I repeatedly hear people say there belts have two pieces of leather with the grain going different ways and that it is better. No clue what this even means.

Worth mentioning, I hear this from people that have purchased, not the builder.

[JLSleather]

IF you "repeatedly" have people tell you, then they have someone "repeatedly" telling them. Do you KNOW this 'builder'? He's testing the grain in your leg -- by PULLING IT

Leather does have a grain, and belts have been made going 'with' it and 'against' it an every other way. Head to tail is better. Period.

FABRIC is often woven for strength. Because it's individual previously unconnected fibers, and strength IS added by running the fibers different directions.

In the same way, twisted or braided strands increase strength -- the materials aren't stronger, but there's more material per inch (or foot, or whatever). Ask the braiding boys how much loss they have in length of a project, though there's not actually a 'loss'. Plus each is pulling against the next, adding to rigidity (at least temporarily).

That machine you use got thread in it?...

'

[cleanview]

I really though that sounded like one guy would swear by and another would swear the other way.........just leaves me swearing, trying to figure it out

Yes sir, I posted a bunch of pics in the thread titled------------------------Me And My Sewing Machine Are Finally Getting Along

[JLSleather]

Actually, the comment about the thread was simply that the thread you are using is no doubt twisted together, for strength.

Would there be a different result in a controlled test, under steady (probably hydraulic) pressure (no jerking motion) to see which fails first? Possibly. Git some scientist to do a test for tensile strength (google probably already has that info somewhere).

But, if somebody says there's a difference in COW, that would be significant by wearing a belt, I would say BULL.

Standard issue marketing spiel. The next guy will tell you ONLY use polyester thread. The next guy will say ONLY hand stitched ....

[Colt W Knight]

cross-grain leather belts, to the best of my knowledge, are just an embossing style used on designer belts.

[cleanview]

Actually, the comment about the thread was simply that the thread you are using is no doubt twisted together, for strength.

Would there be a different result in a controlled test, under steady (probably hydraulic) pressure (no jerking motion) to see which fails first? Possibly. Git some scientist to do a test for tensile strength (google probably already has that info somewhere).

But, if somebody says there's a difference in COW, that would be significant by wearing a belt, I would say BULL.

Standard issue marketing spiel. The next guy will tell you ONLY use polyester thread. The next guy will say ONLY hand stitched ....

Some times the persistence to get a point across will amaze me. I obviously did not "get" what you were trying to get across (about the thread). But instead of giving up, you back up ad regroup and explain a little further! Worth it, cause now I get exactly what you were saying.

[JLSleather]

Welcome.

[Josh Ashman]

I'm not sure I followed much of the previous conversation but for whatever it's worth my experience is that belts cut along the back are less likely to stretch. Same goes for stirrup leathers, reins and any other kind of strap. The higher on the back the better the leather. On heavy single layer belts I personally keep the buckle ends towards the butt since the leather there is tough but also generally a little thinner than the neck end. Doubled belts get put neck end to butt end. You can cut belts or any other strap diagonal or side to side if you like but they will have more stretch. The other down side, in my opinion, is that you are more likely to get the buckle or tongue end far enough into the belly to make it weaker.

Just my 2 cents.

Josh

[Birdman]

In addition to the above comments, I would like to point out that the leather is stronger the closer it is to the spine.

This is important when making bridles from a Bridle Butt.

The craftsman will take the (half pair) of butt, and by feel, establish which edge is the spine edge and which edge is the belly edge at the same time as finding which end is the tail end and shoulder end.

He will then mark and then using a head knife,cut the first straight cut down the length of the spine edge to establish the working edge.

I then take off a 3/8" strip with a strap cutter or plough gauge. This will get rid of any minor errors from the head knife action. This strip is used for loops.

Now when cutting leather for a bridle, the rein lengths are taken first as these obviously require the most strength. A half pair bridle butt will make 4 'full size' snaffle bridles. If you know you are going to make four bridles and therefore know the widths of each length in advance, you can take all of the rein lengths off, working from the spine. But most times, you will only make one bridle at a time, so it is important that you cut the rein lengths first in each case so strength is maximised throughout the use of that hide..

With reference to the 'cross grain' issue, when using thin leathers that require strength and stretch resistance ( falconry uses) the stretch can be reduced by sticking two pieces together that are 'cross grained' ie second piece glued at 90 degrees to the first in relation to the head/tail line of the hide.

[DavidL]

There could be a difference in the way the leather bends depending if you fold it with the grain or against the grain. Maybe someone has actual scientific testing to check if its true or un true. Does the grain go from tail to head or spine to belly?

With paper at least if I remember correctly folding or curving against the grain is best - Grain running up and down, curving the paper left to right. Could play a role in leather when making things like round containers, especially parts like straps that take on a lot of pressure and whether you want it to have some stretch or no stretch.

Most will say to cut the pattern horizontally rather than vertically, but never diagonally, so there could be a benefit in choosing a horizontal compared to a vertical for certain applications. if grain direction actually makes a difference when cutting it may make a difference in when you make a gusset, round curve like a container for longevity or strength,

If anyone has any knowledge or an article do share..

Edited January 13, 2015 by DavidL

[Dozen]

I would like to know about this too.

I have found that some of my goat leather definitely stretches more in one direction more than the other.

Its also different parts of a hide have more stretch than others, but i think theres several factors at play here.

I also tried shrinking a phone coved made of 2 identical shapes stitched together Immersed in boiling water (stupid idea),

and found one side shrank considerably more than the other..