Pricking Irons Mark Size

[Jonatan]

Hello everyone from Poland/East Europe

Me and my wife just started within leathercraft . We are going to continue our family leathercraft 30years tradition.

i want to buy a Dixon pricking iron but im little bit confused about sizing. When im looking on pricking irons on the internet

(1inch 7teeth - this is my sewing requirement)

im afraid that size of one tooth will be much too big for aesthetic and neat stitching on wallets, purses, little cases etc.

Simply i dont want to pricking marks being visible after sewing.

Can anyone help me to establish some accurate pricking iron size for my job? I want to use traditional method: pricking iron + diamond awl

I need some info regarding the actual size of the mark a tooth makes on leather. Specifically the 1inch/7teeth iron and 1inch/8teeth iron.

would much appreciate help!

Jonatan and Natalie

[Ferg]

I have a C S Osborne 609-8 pricking iron. It is 1 1/4" wide (32mm), eight teeth which are 3.5mm wide set on the correct angle. I have never used it because after paying a little over $100 USD I just couldn't bring myself to grinding it down to a better tooth width.

I hunted for them for a long time. Finally decided it was time to learn to use the diamond awl and a stitch marking wheel. Managed to get pretty good at it, then decided to purchase my Consew machine.

Haven't done any hand sewing since.

ferg

Hello everyone from Poland/East Europe

Me and my wife just started within leathercraft . We are going to continue our family leathercraft 30years tradition.

i want to buy a Dixon pricking iron but im little bit confused about sizing. When im looking on pricking irons on the internet

(1inch 7teeth - this is my sewing requirement)

im afraid that size of one tooth will be much too big for aesthetic and neat stitching on wallets, purses, little cases etc.

Simply i dont want to pricking marks being visible after sewing.

Can anyone help me to establish some accurate pricking iron size for my job? I want to use traditional method: pricking iron + diamond awl

I need some info regarding the actual size of the mark a tooth makes on leather. Specifically the 1inch/7teeth iron and 1inch/8teeth iron.

would much appreciate help!

Jonatan and Natalie

[Kevin]

7 teeth per inch makes 6 stitches per inch and that does have wide teeth. That's pretty big if you want to make finer leather goods. Personally, I would go down to at least a 9 per inch and you will get smaller teeth. It also depends on what you want your finished items to look like and thread size. Some people like a chunky handmade look. I had a wallet made in the '70s that had huge stitches and thread and I still like the look of it, but I could not bring myself to do that.

Good luck,

Kevin

[Jonatan]

7 teeth per inch makes 6 stitches per inch and that does have wide teeth. That's pretty big if you want to make finer leather goods. Personally, I would go down to at least a 9 per inch and you will get smaller teeth. It also depends on what you want your finished items to look like and thread size. Some people like a chunky handmade look. I had a wallet made in the '70s that had huge stitches and thread and I still like the look of it, but I could not bring myself to do that.

Good luck,

Kevin

thanx for your answers. I decided to make picture of style i want to use in my work, you might see thickness of the thread as well. Obviously thickness of leather would be something between 2-4oz maximum. What do you suggest?

I saw 1inch/7tooth iron and as you said width of one tooth is massive for this kind of stitching, so what can i do instead? 9tooth per inch would be much too small. The solution would be to find 7tooth per inch iron with thin teeth but i have no idea if someone makes stuff like that.

At the moment Im using d.i.y. pricking chisel made from old tailor steel comb

but i think pricking iron would be much better and more comfortable guidance for an awl.

thanx for any help

jon

[terrymac]

It appears from the pictures you posted, you are wanting to do an old fashioned saddle stitch. I really don't think you will have a problem hiding your points unless I am missing something. Your prickling point should be only marking the points where the diamond awl is to penetrate the leather and make the actual hole. Diamond aws should penetrate the leather at a diagonal pattern, and your thread will cover up any marks. I have an old Osborn that marks 12 per inch, and the key to using it is awl blade size and thread diameter. If I used my normal diamond awl blade, the holes would be so large as to cut into each because they would be too close to each other. If I am missing something, please repond back. Hope this helps

Terry

[Jonatan]

It appears from the pictures you posted, you are wanting to do an old fashioned saddle stitch. I really don't think you will have a problem hiding your points unless I am missing something. Your prickling point should be only marking the points where the diamond awl is to penetrate the leather and make the actual hole. Diamond aws should penetrate the leather at a diagonal pattern, and your thread will cover up any marks. I have an old Osborn that marks 12 per inch, and the key to using it is awl blade size and thread diameter. If I used my normal diamond awl blade, the holes would be so large as to cut into each because they would be too close to each other. If I am missing something, please repond back. Hope this helps

Terry

thanks for your comment. yes i want to make old saddle stitch The point is that dixon irons tooth (1inch - 7teeth and 6teeth) is big, i assumed the width of one is between

2,5mm-3mm width, if its true then my stitching would look awfull as the actual width of one stitch is about 1mm. In this situation the actual awl size would not change anything because even with small awl blade pricking mark remain the same.

Or maybe those pricking marks will disappear? Its depends on leather also i think.

you can see problem i want to avoid here

also i attached some zoomed picture from bowstock tutorial which gives proper display of the big difference between actual stitch and pricking mark.

thanks,

Jon.

Edited July 25, 2011 by Jonatan

[Jonatan]

anyone have some close up pictures of those pricking irons? cannot find anything on the internet :/

[Ferg]

I don't understand what you are wanting to gather from a close-up. This is a close up of the iron I have.

anyone have some close up pictures of those pricking irons? cannot find anything on the internet :/

[Jonatan]

I don't understand what you are wanting to gather from a close-up. This is a close up of the iron I have.

thanks!! this is what i was looking for. simply i wanted to establish the actual thickness/width of one tooth as if its too big then my sewing will look unacceptable.

you know what i mean?

Frankly im striving with this subject few weeks and cannot find any solutions :/

[terrymac]

O.K., I see what I was missing. I have a prickling tool also that makes holes large enough to put a rope through the. What I was referring to is using an overstitch wheel to simply mark the hole position, and using only the diamond awl to make the actual holes. I personally won't use one of the tools you are trying as the prongs are not only wide, but the thickness causes really large holes that the thread will not fill completely.

Terry

[King's X]

I do all of my stitching by hand. I guess I do it the old fashion or long way. I grove my stitch line and then use a stitch maker when I decide on the number of stitches per inch. I then use my awl and make 5-10 holes and stitch my way around. I know how 50 years feels, the Dixon Pricking Irons are way to expensive for me. I did take a Tandy diamond punch and regrounded the teeth to resemble the pricking iron teeth and I will occasionally use it, but I have gotten used to going back to the old way.

I know that Kyoshee Elle and Craft Japan sell pricking irons that are about 1/2 of Dixon, but if you do that much work......it might be worth the cost.

Dixon has a website and some of our UK brothers or sisters may chime in with an address for you.

Good luck.

[evandailey]

I do all of my stitching by hand. I guess I do it the old fashion or long way. I grove my stitch line and then use a stitch maker when I decide on the number of stitches per inch. I then use my awl and make 5-10 holes and stitch my way around. I know how 50 years feels, the Dixon Pricking Irons are way to expensive for me. I did take a Tandy diamond punch and regrounded the teeth to resemble the pricking iron teeth and I will occasionally use it, but I have gotten used to going back to the old way.

I know that Kyoshee Elle and Craft Japan sell pricking irons that are about 1/2 of Dixon, but if you do that much work......it might be worth the cost.

Dixon has a website and some of our UK brothers or sisters may chime in with an address for you.

Good luck.

There are Dixon's of all sizes on eBay for between $40 and $60. Just search for pricking irons and scroll to the bottom of the page.

I've been intrigued about pricking irons for a while now. I can't help but think the people stating that the blades are too big don't have the right thing. If you watch

, the Dunhill craftsman uses a pricking iron to punch his holes and it is very fine stitching.

[King's X]

Here is the website

http://www.josephdixon.co.uk/products.asp?page=4

[Ferg]

I researched the Pricking Irons until my head hurt. I finally bought one just to see how the darn things are actually made.

#1 conclusion: Pricking Irons are not intended for "PUNCHING" the stitching holes, only to mark the spaces and slant for the awl.

#2 Conclusion: Pricking Chisels, Stitching Chisels, etc. are intended to punch the sewing holes through several layers of leather if need be, no awl necessary.

Main problem with the chisels? The holes started to close before you got around the item you were sewing, need to open the slots with an awl anyway.

The Pricking Irons are not sharp on the end as a chisel. The stitching is supposed to cover the marks left by the Irons but they are so big you need to rub them out

with a modeling tool or similar. Doing so all around the item leaves the area you rubbed out at a different texture than the opposite edge considering that you kept the stitches to one side or the other.

If you center the stitches on the marks it helps but with smaller thread you have two lines of marks to rub out.

So, I have a Pricking Iron I have absolutely no use for to remind me of how expensive it is sometimes to declare I didn't need it to begin with.

My hands are getting so crippled up that I simply cannot hand sew anymore unless it is absolutely necessary. I do love to do it.

I am back to, "LEARN the skill of placing the awl at the correct angle on the dots made by a stitching wheel."

ferg

Here is the website

http://www.josephdix...ucts.asp?page=4

[Nutty Saddler]

Dixons are normally really good - if you contact them and ask them to make you a 7/inch pricking iron but with a width/thickness similar to that of a 10 or 12 they will probably do it for you . As they mill the tools themselves , special requests are not a problem - they made me a 16 / inch tool which is not listed in any catalogue .

An old pricking iron is also an option as they never used to be so fat - I have an old 8 / inch which is about half as thick as my new one

Edited July 27, 2011 by Nutty Saddler

[mlapaglia]

Place your awl with the wide part horizontal. That will give you a straight stitch