A couple of tips from Peter Main

[Rawhide]

These were some responses to questions posed to Peter...

....the first I heard of using lemon juice was from Bob Beard back in the 80's...I tried it (with a real lemon)...and, it worked well.

For those who wonder about this...

At times, black metal marks can appear on veg tan leather from a number of sources...tools, or fine loose metal particles that may be in the workspace. It is the citric acid in lemons that will make these marks magically go away.

I only use oxalic acid (it does the same job as a lemon will do),...a teaspoon dissolved in a pint of water is all that is needed. I have had the same (glass) bottle for over three years, and there is still plenty left.

Your leather must be completely dry before adding oxalic acid or lemon juice. It is best to (quickly) apply it 'very lightly' overall with a dampened (not wet) sponge...then concentrate more where there are darker marks. Allow this to dry, which won't take long, and then again quickly wipe the leather overall with a dampened sponge (not wet) of plain water.

The only time I use oxalic acid is when I see marks on leather.

I do not use tape on the back of my leather.

All of my work is mounted on 'illustration board'...this is available from art/craft stores...the most commonly available is 'crescent brand'. Make sure it is 'super-smooth, No.202'. Mounting leather on this board will prevent stretch which will come from using large face tools such as the shader and basketweave etc.

Apply a thick, but 'even' coat of rubber cement (not contact adhesive) to the board (use a credit card as a spreader...I have many of the plastic 'gift-cards' that seem to be everywhere)...allow to dry a little, then lay your 'dry' leather down (wet leather will not stick at this point)....rub hard with your hand for good adhesion.

Apply water with a 'loaded' sponge...apply in 'even' strokes in several directions to ensure 'even' coverage of moisture. Do this several times and you will find the water is not going into the leather as quickly as it did at first...this means it can take no more.

Lay the leather aside....allow it to lose its wet look, and when you think it is ready to carve....don't!.

Instead, cover it with a piece of plate glass (I use a large glass cutting board...from the kitchen...I think Bed/Bath&beyond carry these). Allow to sit covered overnight...this is proper 'casing' (just adding water to leather is 'not casing')....the evening out of moisture throughout the leather.

The reason I do not use a plastic bag is that the illustration board becomes damp. With glass, the air can come in from the sides...in saying that, you should always add extra moisture around the edges....leather will always dry from the edges inwards.

When working, and you need a break....cover your work with the glass....it will hold moisture for days if required. Again, always add moisture to edges only when having a break...this will hold the moisture in the center, which is where you want it.

When using illustration board, you will find you are able to get extra depth in your work....especially if you are using lighter-weights.

Peter

[jbird]

Very helpfull thank you Peter and rawhide

One question not totaly related but I am wondering Peter how much water is in the leather when you start tooling can you feel it is it dry to the sight what rule do you use thanks

Josh

[Rawhide]

Very helpfull thank you Peter and rawhide

One question not totaly related but I am wondering Peter how much water is in the leather when you start tooling can you feel it is it dry to the sight what rule do you use thanks

Josh

Peter usually waits until the next day to carve on leather... He wets it, let's it return to original color (visually), then covers it with glass. The next day when you uncover it, it's ready to carve...

[jbird]

This is my method as well just was curios thanks Marlon

Josh

Edited June 16, 2009 by jbird

[Aulus]

Aha, okay...I´m going to try this. Thank´s for posting.

Does anyone of the german Users know what this "illustration board" is in german? Or were I can get it?

[MADMAX22]

Very interesting,

Be sure to thank him for us Marlin. His tips are allways very welcome.

[outcast]

What advantage does the illustration board have over acrylic?

[Rawhide]

What advantage does the illustration board have over acrylic?

None from what I know...they both serve the same purpose, to prevent stretching.

[Deno]

Thanks for the info Marlon. Please let Peter know we thank him for his wisdom. Please also tell him his way of casing, mounting to Crescent board, and covering with glass, is exactly how my father, Gene Noland, always did his portraits. Getting a piece of glass the same size as my tooling block was the first thing I did when I started back into leather a few months ago. I've let projects sit for days sometimes with out much lost of moisture. One other thing I would like to add to what Peter has said, My dad could not always sit and tool a hole portrait at one time, cause of his day job, he would also take a towel larger then the area of the glass and soak it in water and ring it out so it was still moist but not heavy wet, then lay it over the glass and cover the sides. This would allow the water to evaporate from the towel first before the leather could lose moisture. Again, please thank Peter for us all. My best to you and Peter, Dennis.

[maddhatter]

excellent advice and much wisdom, thank you very much for sharing the knowledge, i will give this a try sence what i have been doing i uhm what peter said not to do (gulp)

thanks again.

maddhatter

[manfrommuc]

@Marlon

it is a good tip but how get the leather and the 'illustration board'...apart (off) ??

after I finish tooling the fleshside is full of glue and this 'illustration board'...??

greetings

Johann

[Mike Craw]

I'm glad I read all the way down to the last post, Johann! I had exactly the same question after reading the first couple of posts and I would have asked the same question. I don't have any trouble gettin it ON the board, but all the stretch I avoided by using the board seems to happen getting it OFF the board.

Mike

[Russ]

If you use rubber cement (NOT contact cement) it peels off pretty easy. Just make sure you don't stretch the leather when you are removing the board...pull on the board, not the leather.

Russ

I'm glad I read all the way down to the last post, Johann! I had exactly the same question after reading the first couple of posts and I would have asked the same question. I don't have any trouble gettin it ON the board, but all the stretch I avoided by using the board seems to happen getting it OFF the board.

Mike

[Mike Craw]

Thanks Russ!

Is the illustration board good for anything after that, or is this a "one-shot" deal?

Mike

[TTcustom]

Aha, okay...I´m going to try this. Thank´s for posting.

Does anyone of the german Users know what this "illustration board" is in german? Or were I can get it?

Boesner in Munchen

Weißer Grafik-, Reinzeichnungs- und Präsentationskarton, Stärke 1,4 mm,Format 50 x 70 cm. Sehr gute Planlage, spezialgeleimt, glatt,radierfest, klebebandfest. Sehr gut geeignet für Tusche, Bleistift,Marker und Airbrush. Der Karton lässt sich auch gut alsPassepartoutkarton einsetzen.

I think this is the same as the Crescent brand hot pressed #202 illustration board. There was a artist supply store in Rosenheimer Platz also that had it but that was a long time ago that I was there. Hoped this helped.

I am not sure if this is an appropriate thing but I will admit that I use the blue painters tape on the back of my leather and then glue it down. Then the glue comes off when I pull the tape off the leather. Don't use the regular masking tape though ( I learned! ) it doesn't come free as well as the blue stuff.

[manfrommuc]

Boesner in Munchen

Weißer Grafik-, Reinzeichnungs- und Präsentationskarton, Stärke 1,4 mm,Format 50 x 70 cm. Sehr gute Planlage, spezialgeleimt, glatt,radierfest, klebebandfest. Sehr gut geeignet für Tusche, Bleistift,Marker und Airbrush. Der Karton lässt sich auch gut alsPassepartoutkarton einsetzen.

I think this is the same as the Crescent brand hot pressed #202 illustration board. There was a artist supply store in Rosenheimer Platz also that had it but that was a long time ago that I was there. Hoped this helped.

I am not sure if this is an appropriate thing but I will admit that I use the blue painters tape on the back of my leather and then glue it down. Then the glue comes off when I pull the tape off the leather. Don't use the regular masking tape though ( I learned! ) it doesn't come free as well as the blue stuff.

here talks an old munichknower......

boesner is a very good selected shop for all needs about art.... but he is very expensive

and the shop in the rosenheimerstrasse ist still there....

greez

johann

[rickeyfro]

I cant resist any longer, Ive started to post this question so many times but always balked, but Ive just got to ask, why is it that Peter only contributes to this Forum through Rawhide? Im not trying to offend anyone, my curiosity has just gotten the best of me, and this just seems kinda strange

[Rawhide]

@Marlon

it is a good tip but how get the leather and the 'illustration board'...apart (off) ??

after I finish tooling the fleshside is full of glue and this 'illustration board'...??

greetings

Johann

I've been a bit busy lately so sorry for the late replies, but here goes.

Johann, if you apply the rubber cement to the board only, it will be enough to stick well, yet easy to peel off. I try to peel the board from the leather, not the leather from the board.

Thanks Russ!

Is the illustration board good for anything after that, or is this a "one-shot" deal?

Mike

Mike, it's usually a one shot deal, I have had success using a board multiple times, but I usually don't try to save it.

Boesner in Munchen

Weißer Grafik-, Reinzeichnungs- und Präsentationskarton, Stärke 1,4 mm,Format 50 x 70 cm. Sehr gute Planlage, spezialgeleimt, glatt,radierfest, klebebandfest. Sehr gut geeignet für Tusche, Bleistift,Marker und Airbrush. Der Karton lässt sich auch gut alsPassepartoutkarton einsetzen.

I think this is the same as the Crescent brand hot pressed #202 illustration board. There was a artist supply store in Rosenheimer Platz also that had it but that was a long time ago that I was there. Hoped this helped.

I am not sure if this is an appropriate thing but I will admit that I use the blue painters tape on the back of my leather and then glue it down. Then the glue comes off when I pull the tape off the leather. Don't use the regular masking tape though ( I learned! ) it doesn't come free as well as the blue stuff.

TT custom, it is hot press board #201 from Crescent. I don't know the difference in the numbers, I only know which one I use.

I cant resist any longer, Ive started to post this question so many times but always balked, but Ive just got to ask, why is it that Peter only contributes to this Forum through Rawhide? Im not trying to offend anyone, my curiosity has just gotten the best of me, and this just seems kinda strange

Rickey,

It's not an offensive question at all. Peter post to multiple forums, but they are all through email and he can post once to all at the same time. A couple of years ago I asked if I could post some of his work here for LW.net to see. It kind of took root there. I do it because I love his work and don't mind posting for him. He does lurk here every so often and has posted before. It's just a different forum type than he's used to.

Hope this answers everyone. If I missed something, let me know and I'll get you an answer.

Marlon

[Mike Craw]

Thanks Marlon!

I've never used a backer before. When I started back in 1980, you just wet down a piece of leather and started pounding. In the saddle shop, the leather we use is heavy enough that stretch is not an issue. I'm currently trying to design and build a purse for my sister-in-law in the form of a saddle bag. I got a side of 8-9 oz. Herman Oak from Springfield leather, and I'm thinking that a slight distortion might be an issue as heavily as I'm planning to tool it, so I'll give the illustration board a try. Thanks to you (and to Peter) for the information.

Mike

[TTcustom]

Ooops!!! I apparently liked the 2's yes 201 is the same I use. Old boards i use for more permanent patterns after I have drawn them on brown paper they go on illustration board if I plan on making that project again.

Heh Grüße Johann! Actually i am an Erdinger by history and Bayerische by heart but out west in the wide open desert physically.

[catstamp]

As a side note, I recently was doing a clutch back and didn't have any illustration board.  So I went into the kitchen and found an UNUSED, plastic, flexible cutting board and lightly applied my rubber cement to it.  I carved my piece and when I went to remove the flexible cutting mat, it peeled off with ease.   

Edited August 28, 2016 by catstamp

[JLSleather]

Minus all the "hype" -- this has been done since comfortably before I used any leather.  In the 80's, all the boys were using smooth finished bristol board - available from any art store in sizes from 8x11 to about 24 x 48.  

And tracing film (the plastic stuff).

Lay the bristol (paper) on the marble and apply a coat of rubber cement evenly.  Place the leather down on the rubber cement being sure to keep it smooth.  Wet the leather with a sponge and cover it with tracing film.  With marble under and plastic over, the leather will not dry out.  One big benefit of doing it this way -- when you begin carving and find you aren't going to get finished before you have to quit, simply place the film back over the portion of the leather which isn't finished.

Shoot... guess I should go write a book now #$!@#!~@!

 

[bikermutt07]

9 hours ago, JLSleather said:

Minus all the "hype" -- this has been done since comfortably before I used any leather.  In the 80's, all the boys were using smooth finished bristol board - available from any art store in sizes from 8x11 to about 24 x 48.  

And tracing film (the plastic stuff).

Lay the bristol (paper) on the marble and apply a coat of rubber cement evenly.  Place the leather down on the rubber cement being sure to keep it smooth.  Wet the leather with a sponge and cover it with tracing film.  With marble under and plastic over, the leather will not dry out.  One big benefit of doing it this way -- when you begin carving and find you aren't going to get finished before you have to quit, simply place the film back over the portion of the leather which isn't finished.

Shoot... guess I should go write a book now #$!@#!~@!

 

It's like the movies, Jeff. You can rehash the same story over and over again for each generation. And make a mint....

"Yojimbo", "Fist Full of Dollars", "Last Man Standing".

I have read of this technique at least three times and haven't tried it yet. Why? Full time job and a three year old make for some tough planning.

Maybe when he's ten I'll run across this again and try it. Lol.

[MADMAX22]

Biker it is a tried and true method (even before the 80s JS, you guys got it from somewhere right), ya will be very happy with your leather carving after you have let it sit for a while. Maybe not over night but if you can case your leather in the morning (say before work for us "hobbiest") and let it sit till the afternoon it will be good to go. Now if I am just doing a basket weave and boarder a few hours then pull the glass and let it air out for an hour or so and go to town. I am not sure if the saddle guys do this because of the weight of the skirting they are carving. 

[JLSleather]

Exactly my point max... not sure why we are praising some great wisdom for something which has been done for decades