Why Bridle Leather Over Harness Leather?

[jaeiger]

I'm doing my research on the leather I want to use for my next project, and am pretty enamored with the qualities of bridle and harness leathers. I noticed that a lot of higher end bag and briefcase makers gravitate towards bridle leather, and harness leather does not really appear as much in fine leatherworking (that I've found ). However, reading about the properties of either kind of leather seems to indicate that, for a given tannery, the harness leather is the same as their bridle leather but with even more waxes / oil / hot stuffing, leading to higher strength and weather resistance. That being the case, why is bridle leather so overwhelmingly favored?

[Paddywhompus]

I would think it would be due to the depth of color, evenness of it. How smooth it feels and how much easier it is to work with over harness.

[Art]

Harness gets sweated, pissed, and crapped on a lot in addition to getting dragged through the mud and over gravel and who knows what; oh, and don't forget the rain and the water to wash all that gunk off when you put it up, if you do. Harness tends to have a harder hand as opposed to bridle which is easier to work, but still stands up to sweat and water pretty well. Bridle also sounds more upscale than Harness.

Art

[Andrew Chee]

The truth is, there's a lot of variability in leathers. Bridle leather from different tanneries are very different. Everyone has a different formula for what they call bridle. I think what Art said about bridle sounding better than harness is kinda insightful. Really you have to try it out and see which one works for you. I prefer using W&C harness over the real English bridle stuff. W&C harness has some nice properties. It darkens wuite a bit when burnished. It edges well. I like it a lot. You just have to try it out and see which type of leather you like better.

Andrew

[jaeiger]

Thanks all for the replies. It sounds like it comes down to name equity, workability, and aesthetic all in favor of bridle leather, and perhaps practicality / durability for the harness leather.

Andrew: regarding the comments above your post saying that harness is a lot stiffer/ harder to work with, what would you say to that? I plan on getting my side split to 5/6oz for what that's worth, will it still be fairly stiff at that thickness?

[Andrew Chee]

I can only speak to W&C Harness and bridle leather at 5-6oz as well as Claytons bridle at about 5-6oz. I haven't used the other ones. Clayton's bridle is the firmest/stiffest of the leathers. I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) that Clayton's bridles leathers are oak bark tanned and that might contribute to the firmness of the leather. W&C Harness and Bridle are softer. Harness is actually softer because they use more oils/waxes than on the bridles so as it wears in it gets softer than the bridle.

I think that if you want leather that won't be bent a lot (like an external gusset briefcase) then bridle leather works nicely. If you have things that bend and twist a lot then harness wears better. That's just my opinion though. Honestly it just all depends on what you like. I like Harness over bridle because of the particular qualities of darkening and the softer hand but others might like the firmer, smoother feel of bridle.

I've recently started using a lot of Italian veg tans that I think are even nicer. Not necessarily in quality of the skins but in the affect that the leather has and what I'm looking for.

Andrew

[cjmt]

I can only speak to W&C Harness and bridle leather at 5-6oz as well as Claytons bridle at about 5-6oz. I haven't used the other ones. Clayton's bridle is the firmest/stiffest of the leathers. I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) that Clayton's bridles leathers are oak bark tanned and that might contribute to the firmness of the leather. W&C Harness and Bridle are softer. Harness is actually softer because they use more oils/waxes than on the bridles so as it wears in it gets softer than the bridle.

I think that if you want leather that won't be bent a lot (like an external gusset briefcase) then bridle leather works nicely. If you have things that bend and twist a lot then harness wears better. That's just my opinion though. Honestly it just all depends on what you like. I like Harness over bridle because of the particular qualities of darkening and the softer hand but others might like the firmer, smoother feel of bridle.

I've recently started using a lot of Italian veg tans that I think are even nicer. Not necessarily in quality of the skins but in the affect that the leather has and what I'm looking for.

Andrew

If Claytons is oak bark tanned it's not leather they are tanning. Bakers are the last UK oak bark tanner remaining. Claytons now own Sedgwick so there may be some commonality, I think both are vegetable rather than bark tanned though

Charlie

[Andrew Chee]

Cool. Didn't know that.

I have to say that the Claytons leathers are quite firm so that's why I thought oak bark tannage.

Andrew

[jaeiger]

I can only speak to W&C Harness and bridle leather at 5-6oz as well as Claytons bridle at about 5-6oz. I haven't used the other ones. Clayton's bridle is the firmest/stiffest of the leathers. I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) that Clayton's bridles leathers are oak bark tanned and that might contribute to the firmness of the leather. W&C Harness and Bridle are softer. Harness is actually softer because they use more oils/waxes than on the bridles so as it wears in it gets softer than the bridle.

I think that if you want leather that won't be bent a lot (like an external gusset briefcase) then bridle leather works nicely. If you have things that bend and twist a lot then harness wears better. That's just my opinion though. Honestly it just all depends on what you like. I like Harness over bridle because of the particular qualities of darkening and the softer hand but others might like the firmer, smoother feel of bridle.

I've recently started using a lot of Italian veg tans that I think are even nicer. Not necessarily in quality of the skins but in the affect that the leather has and what I'm looking for.

Andrew

I see, that's definitely good to know. What I'm planning to make is a double gusseted messenger bag; the design will be fairly classic so I think I should go with harness leather to make it a little more casual. I want it to be suitable for daily use and I think the aesthetic of bridle leather might make it look too formal. The softness/plaibility will help with this too. Thanks so much for your feedback!

Out of curiosity, where do you source your Italian veg tan from? Can you elaborate more on how it darkens? I love leather that takes on a patina nicely.

[Andrew Chee]

Are you making an external gusset bag or a turned bag (sewn inside out and then turned right side out)? If you're making a turned bag, then neither leather may be that great. W&C Harness, when new creases very noticeably when bent. As it gets beaten up and used it looks nice. But when new, the bends don't look that great (if you're looking to sell the thing and want a very smooth look). One thing you can do is tumble the hell out of the leather and it will soften up considerably and look more uniform.

'

As for the Italian leather, it's from a tannery called Tempesti. It's hard to say what it's like. In general, the Italian veg tans are softer tempered than American veg tans. Primarily cause they are tanned for different purposes (leather goods vs. horse tack). It's just something you have to try out for yourself.

Andrew

[jaeiger]

It's going to be an external gusset bag. Looking at my design, I don't think there's anything in particular that will be a severe bend, maybe where the gussets meet the panels but that's kind of to be expected I guess. From pictures, it seems harness leather has a bit of a texture / non-uniform color throughout the sides, so I think it'll be ok in that regard. My first bag was with some lower grade chromexcel, which wrinkled profusely. The difference is that the rest of the chromexcel had a very smooth texture and even coloration, so the wrinkles were emphasized even more so, it'll be for personal use, in any case.

That's good to know about the Italian leather - I'll have to look into that. Thanks!