Culture: Two nations divided...

[UKRay]

I have no particular point to make here, other than I really enjoy UK/US cultural differences. A conversation on another thread led me to think about these and I wondered if, maybe, it worked both ways. We Brits see a huge amount of American TV and often see really exciting stuff and hear language that we simply don't understand or recognise. Does this ever happen to you?

For example:

I have absolutely no idea what the difference is between a freeway and a highway although I have travelled on both - we have lanes, roads, streets and motorways over here. We also have alleys but they tend to be for pedestrians and cyclists these days.

You US guys have amazing huge pickup trucks that simply wouldn't fit onto our tiny roads. I even saw a camper that fitted onto the load bed of one of those trucks (in a film with Clint Eastwood) but it was years before I saw one in the UK. I have still only seen a handful over here and they still excite me and I want one so bad it hurts - but I probably couldn't afford to buy one and I have no idea where I could use it as it would probably require a wide load sign and a flashing light on top to make it street legal.

You may be amused to know that when I first read about Hershey bars along with Twinkies and A1 Steak sauce, I put them on my list of very exciting things to see and do as soon as I made a trip to the US - in some instances, reality didn't come anywhere close to matching the expectation. How can anyone eat a whole Twinkie? I still don't know what Oreos and Cheerios taste like but I can't wait to find out!

The 'bathroom' issue is one that is actually making a transatlantic leap as traditionally Brits have tended to use a number of words for the good old 'John' - top contenders are lavatory, toilet and loo. Unfortunately the word you choose often tends to give a clue as to your class; another concept that doesn't seem too prevalent in the US. Bathroom doesn't have any class connotations and so finds favour with those climbing the social ladder. Does class actually exist in the US?

One thing I have noticed is that some Americans can get confused by the concept of Cockneys (people born within the sound of Bow Bells in London - further explanation available on request!). Using rhyming slang is not typical British behaviour. Dick van Dyke did us no favours with his painful portrayal of a cheerful cockney chappie in Mary Poppins and various notable US novelists have ruined otherwise excellent books by misuse of British English. Have you noticed any British writers doing the same to you?

Spelling is another painful source of confusion. We Brits add the letter U to all kinds of words (colour, flavour etc.) not, as it may seem, to irritate Americans, merely because that is the way we have always done it and things take a while to change over here. What else do we do that irritates or entertains?

What differences have you noticed? Are there British films and TV programmes that amuse you? Did you ever see: 'One man and his dog' which was all about working sheep dog trials or 'Last of the Summer Wine' or any Ealing comedy?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/281298.stm

BBC 1 Man & His Dog DVD

The first official footage of 1 Man & His Dog ever to be released by the BBC !! This 2 disc DVD features excerpts of THIRTY years of the best of One Man & His Dog from the very first episode with Phil Drabble to current day, also the 2005 Christmas Special on Disc 2. Fronted by Ben Fogle, also features "The Best Of ... including single, brace and young handler clips", Meet the Presenters, How to Whistle". 189 mins running time, highly recommended.

Thirty years worth of working sheep dogs and instructions on how to whistle? Hmmmmm!

What else do we Brits do, if anything, that makes you laugh or is a complete mystery?

[rdb]

Seems a bit anti-American topic here, but since we whipped your a%#$@s once, we can do it again...ROFL

Seriously though, there are no two nations more close, in all the world, and will continue until the ends of time, I'm sure. The language part is amusing though.

When I first heard in London, "Have you a Swan for my fag?", I was a tad confused, but I smoked it out right quick.

Chicken and Chips, on newspaper, of all things, was another one. (I still like Steak and Kidney pie)

I think we sold partial rights to the letter "u", to help with our deficit, but that's a horse of a different colour.

Freeways are for autos only...no trucks allowed ( sort of redefines "free", doesn't it?). Highways=Motorways. And Expressways are for traffic jams, or temporary parking lots...lol.

"Are You being Served" was about the funniest thing on the telly. And that one with all the crazy hippies in one apartment (can't remember the name of that one). Of course. Fawlty Towers remains iconic. I do like the one where the guy goes around digging holes all over England with a backhoe, , and calling it archealogy, but he was better in the "Worst jobs of all time" series.

London really reminds me of a big Boston. You would feel at home there. The pubs are the way they are supposed to be..family, children, and on every corner.

This should be a fun Topic to watch.

[Johanna]

Highways and freeways are the same. They have designated exits, not turning lanes. Those campers in the bed of a truck are called "fifth wheels". Our family has one. If we can afford the gas, it sleeps 6 comfortably and is cheaper than a motel. Oreos are the best cookies ever, unless they get stale. They just now, after 40 some years, developed a package to keep them fresh. When you rip the sticky opening back, every kid within a block can hear it and comes running. Twinkies are overrated. Putting A-1 on a steak is sacreligious is some parts of the US.

PBS ran some shows like "Waiting for God" and the one with Hyacinth Boo-kay (not bucket!) and we loved them. Anything with Judy Dench is worth watching, too.

Along with the letter "u", Brits do funny things with "s" when a "z" works fine.

In the US, a "bathroom" is in a house and is "private", a "restroom" is public, and you can't take a shower there.

You can put gas in your tank, or pass gas and have everyone leave the room, but we have no such thing as "petrol". A boot goes on your foot- we put our groceries in the trunk. "Wally World" is a nickname for WalMart and "Mickey Dees" means McDonalds.

Johanna

[UKRay]

Seems a bit anti-American topic here, but since we whipped your a%#$@s once, we can do it again...ROFL

No anti-anything intended I promise. Just a whole lot of very funny stuff that doesn't get aired anywhere near often enough.

I can see that our use of the word 'fag' would amuse and entertain but what is all this about highways and freeways - are they the same or different?

The letters S & Z can be an issue and we do tend to say 'zed' rather than 'zee'. Complicated isn't it?

I'm delighted to discover restrooms but am disturbed by the idea of chicken and chips on newspaper - fish and chips on newspaper certainly, but chicken and chips in a basket if you please!

That 'backhoe' is a JCB and the archaeology guy's name is Tony Robinson - did anyone see him as Baldrick in Blackadder?

Edited October 12, 2008 by UKRay

[TwinOaks]

We have Grits in the South; Oatmeal, cream of wheat, and hominey are for other places. And thankfully, we DON'T have porridge.

[Crystal]

We also have some Interstate highways that are toll roads and Pennsylvania has a "Turnpike" which is a toll road. I always thought that "freeways" were designed to "free-up" traffic congestion around metropolitain areas. Highway was just a generic term for limited access roads which had at least 2 lanes in both directions. That's just the way I understand them.

We do seem to love our big trucks and SUV's. Have to have them to haul the trailers with the 4 wheelers in tow. There is a new park in PA that is specifically for 4 wheelers - camp sites and miles of trails. I think they also use it for snowmobiles, though we don't seem to get enough snow any more for the "sleds".

Never gave much thought to "bathrooms", but Johanna defined that well. Some call it going to the "can" or using the "head". Could that be a class determination?

Since this is all in fun and I am curious - are we in the US "Dental Obsessed" or is there a difference in dental care or the need/want for dental care? Just about very kid here ends up with braces.

Unless you are in a large city - no one can really walk and get to anything. Can't go for a walk and wind up at a pub, or a market. No one really uses bicycles here (meaning my area) unless you are exercize obsessed or belong to an Old Order Mennonite or Amish religion which prohibits use of autos.

Can't stand Twinkies, although I have seen where you can get them deep fried now. Never tried that. Fairs are also offering deep fried Oreos. I just don't know about that.

Crystal

Edited October 12, 2008 by Crystal

[rdb]

It wasn't the word "fag" that threw me. I do not hold myself better than anyone. Love 'em all. No it was the Swan that threw me, until I realized it was a Trade name for matches.

Yep, 1972, Chicken and chips on newspaper...Earl's Court. Lovely Place...The old Troubador club. It's probably all an ethically different place now, perhaps Indian. Things change, even in Old Merry.

Blackadder...forgot that one., funniest man on earth today...SWABS?? I think. The oldtimer's disease get's in the way of remembering TR's name sometimes.

But enough for me now, I'm sure there's people with more recent memories of GB than mine from 40 years ago. Although I hold them dear.

[CitizenKate]

Having been born in the UK, I've always had a fascination for English culture, especially all the various speech accents from one region to the next. In the States, the regions are pretty large. In the UK, one little village could have it's own particular flavor of English.

I actually don't think of Dick Van Dyke when I think of a Cockney, but rather Jack Wild, the child star of the '60's who played the Artful Dodger in Oliver. I believe Jack actually was a Cockney. And what about the play Pygmalion, or the Broadway version of it, My Fair Lady?

Oh, and please tell my fellow Yanks what a "shooting brake" is. (Don't know if I spelled it correctly...)

Kate

[shirleyz]

What differences have you noticed? Are there British films and TV programmes that amuse you? Did you ever see: 'One man and his dog' which was all about working sheep dog trials or 'Last of the Summer Wine' or any Ealing comedy?

Last of the Summer wine? Are they really ready for Compo? They might think he's typical of the Northern male. What about Nora Batty? Oh my God Ray! Think Man!!!!!!

If anyone should watch Last of the summer wine, I'm from Arkansas.

Shirley

[ClayB]

Seems there are differences in what we call things here in the US too. Out where I live, highways are most any paved road, not limited access and most often just one lane in each direction. Interstates are limited access, two lanes in each direction. We dont have freeways, toll roads, or expressways. And a LOT of our roads are just gravel. We have 8 miles of gravel to get to the nearest highway.

We do like big trucks cuz we have a lot of stuff to haul around. The bigger the box and the cab, the more junk you can pile in there, tools, clothes, etc. It'd take about 15 minutes of cleaning if you wanted to get someone in the back seat of my Chevy.

This was my favorite truck ever.

4 doors, 4 wheel drive (actually 6 since it was a dually) It hauled anything you could hook to it or stack on it. Wish I had a picture of it fully loaded when I ran a fencing crew. I finally decided to get rid of it when gas started going up. It had 225,000 miles on it and got about 3 mpg. Took the money I got from it and bought a Boss sewing machine. I liked the truck a lot better than I like the sewing machine.

The Clint Eastwood movie, Every Which Way But Loose? My favorite Clint movie. He had one of those old slide in the box campers. Had one of those for the old truck too.

[UKRay]

We have Grits in the South; Oatmeal, cream of wheat, and hominey are for other places. And thankfully, we DON'T have porridge.

Surely grit is for putting on roads and oatmeal is a type of biscuit (not cookie unless they are those homemade ones that are all spread out and have cinnamon and raisins or come in a packet marker 'Maryland' and have chocolate chips in 'em) but cream of wheat and hominey? What on earth is that?

As far as porridge is concerned, I can't imagine how the Scots would survive without it. I'm partial to a bowl of podge with a sprinkling of brown sugar and a drop of cream myself - on a good day you might even get a shot of whisky to mix in...

What on earth ARE grits?

Deep fried Oreos might be too much of a good thing? Hmmm? We'll settle for deep fried Mars bars and chips (not fries) with curry sauce and mushy peas. No seriously, mushy peas...

The dental thing is definitely worth a mention. Huge generalisation here, but British kids tend to have far more 'interesting' <grin!> looking teeth than US kids. IMHO (and i'm prepared to be shouted down by the other Brits) cosmetic dentistry is seen as more for those who lose teeth in an accident than for those who want to look good. Braces are more common these days but hardly prevalent.

Walking is just part of British culture as you can never find a place to park... actually, I live about 4 mins walk from the market square in Ludlow and my favorite pub is on the same route. The nice thing is that pubs are changing character now smoking is banned. You can get a decent cup of coffee in most pubs now and the food has improved dramatically. hey, even a ploughman would eat in one now!

I do envy you the diversity of culture in the US. The Mennonite or Amish religions are all but unknown here in the UK.

Swan Vestas and fags need to be seen so here is a video clip for your enjoyment - just look at the typical British scenery.

The trains are different these days and smoking is banned but many railway stations are exactly the same as the one in the picture.

Sadly, the late Jack Wild wasn't a cockney, he was actually born in Lancashire, but if you liked the original film of Oliver just take a look at this video clip. It will bring back all kinds of memories: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9g99F_MSdk

My Fair Lady was a cracker of a show, but generations of stage Eliza Dolittle's have contributed precious little to Cockney heritage. I can't think of a single Eliza who was actually born within the sound of Bow Bells (and that is another rash stament I could live to regret!)

You were spot on with the spelling of shooting brake, Kate. I'm far from knowledgable about cars but would define it as a luxury two door estate car but some would say the old Morris Traveller was a kind of shooting brake and there is little in the way of luxury in an old Moggie.

Wikipedia says: Shooting-brake is a car body style originally used to describe bespoke versions of 2-door luxury estate cars built for use by hunters ^[1] as well as golfers, riders, polo players and other sportsmen. In modern usage "Shooting-brake" generally refers to any 2-door hatchback with a squared-off rear, although some manufacturers have referred to other types of vehicles as a "Shooting-brake".^[2]

The body was usually custom built. An early manufacturer of shooting brakes was Albion Motors of Scotland. There are existing examples of custom-built Bentley S2, Mercedes 300, and also the Aston Martin DBS Shooting Brake. VG, a small US coach builder, offers a model named VGD Shooting Brake

Too late Shirley, our Luke has already told me he likes 'Last of the Summer Wine' but what do the rest of you think?

Does the lovely Nora Batty and her wrinkled stockings do it for you?

Love that truck Clay!!!

Edited October 12, 2008 by UKRay

[CitizenKate]

Clay, is that miles to the gallon, or gallons to the mile?

I also liked some of Eastwood's later movies, where he played characters that subtly parodied some of his earlier stereotypical characters.

My latest British favorite has been Rowan Atkinson, who is famous for playing Mister Bean. Here's a YouTube sampler from that series:

Mister Bean goes to the swimming pool

Mister Bean escaping from a parking garage

He also starred in the movie Johnny English, a parody of the Bond movies. I laughed until there were tears in my eyes.

The hole in the floor scene from Johnny English

Kate

[tonyc1]

No anti-anything intended I promise. Just a whole lot of very funny stuff that doesn't get aired anywhere near often enough.

I can see that our use of the word 'fag' would amuse and entertain but what is all this about highways and freeways - are they the same or different?

The letters S & Z can be an issue and we do tend to say 'zed' rather than 'zee'. Complicated isn't it?

I'm delighted to discover restrooms but am disturbed by the idea of chicken and chips on newspaper - fish and chips on newspaper certainly, but chicken and chips in a basket if you please!

That 'backhoe' is a JCB and the archaeology guy's name is Tony Robinson - did anyone see him as Baldrick in Blackadder?

Black Adder series was hilarious, especially the one re. the WW1. Time Team is on now out here.

[tonyc1]

We also have some Interstate highways that are toll roads and Pennsylvania has a "Turnpike" which is a toll road. I always thought that "freeways" were designed to "free-up" traffic congestion around metropolitain areas. Highway was just a generic term for limited access roads which had at least 2 lanes in both directions. That's just the way I understand them.

We do seem to love our big trucks and SUV's. Have to have them to haul the trailers with the 4 wheelers in tow. There is a new park in PA that is specifically for 4 wheelers - camp sites and miles of trails. I think they also use it for snowmobiles, though we don't seem to get enough snow any more for the "sleds".

Never gave much thought to "bathrooms", but Johanna defined that well. Some call it going to the "can" or using the "head". Could that be a class determination?

Since this is all in fun and I am curious - are we in the US "Dental Obsessed" or is there a difference in dental care or the need/want for dental care? Just about very kid here ends up with braces.

Unless you are in a large city - no one can really walk and get to anything. Can't go for a walk and wind up at a pub, or a market. No one really uses bicycles here (meaning my area) unless you are exercize obsessed or belong to an Old Order Mennonite or Amish religion which prohibits use of autos.

Can't stand Twinkies, although I have seen where you can get them deep fried now. Never tried that. Fairs are also offering deep fried Oreos. I just don't know about that.

Crystal

Crystal, don't they deep fry everything in the states!!!

Tony.

[tonyc1]

The first episode of The American version of Kath and Kim was on tv last night. I hope it can get better as I hardly got a laugh out of it. Have they shown the Australian version over there yet? A couple of my favourite US shows are "Two And a Half Men" and Frasier.

[CitizenKate]

Sadly, the late Jack Wild wasn't a cockney, he was actually born in Lancashire, but if you liked the original film of Oliver just take a look at this video clip. It will bring back all kinds of memories:

My Fair Lady was a cracker of a show, but generations of stage Eliza Dolittle's have contributed precious little to Cockney heritage. I can't think of a single Eliza who was actually born within the sound of Bow Bells (and that is another rash stament I could live to regret!)

Oliver was one of my favorite musicals. I've got it in my collection, but it was fun to see that they had a reunion before Jack died. Not too many people into movie musicals, these days...

Fun thread, Ray. I'm curious to know more about Bow Bells.

Kate

[Mike Craw]

I think Last of the Summer Wine is hysterical!! That old guy in the Wellis with the knit hat puts me on the floor! Sharon and I try never to miss "As Time Goes By." On our local PBS station in Jacksonville, FL, Saturday night is called "Brit-Com" night, and they have two ATGB from 9:00 - 10:00. Sharon's Mom was of English stock, and when we watch Are You Being Served, I get tickled at some of the expressions she used to use. Great stuff, Ray! Keep them coming!!

Mike

Edit for spelling. Johanna - we really need to work on the "Auto - speller"...I don't think it's working!

Edited October 12, 2008 by Mike Craw

[tonyc1]

I think Last of the Summer Wine is hysterical!! That old guy in the Wellis with the knit hat puts me on the floor! Sharon and I try never to miss "As Time Goes By." On our local PBS station in Jacksonville, FL, Saturday night is called "Brit-Com" night, and they have two ATGB from 9:00 - 10:00. Sharon's Mom was of English stock, and when we watch Are You Being Served, I get tickled at some of the expressions she used to use. Great stuff, Ray! Keep them coming!!

Mike

Edit for spelling. Johanna - we really need to work on the "Auto - speller"...I don't think it's working!

I read in the paper a couple of days ago that "Miss Brahms" in "Are You Being Served" has an aggressive,terminal cancer. She is 65 years old.

Tony.

[Crystal]

Crystal, don't they deep fry everything in the states!!!

Tony.

Yes, Tony, we do deep fry everything. Hot dogs, turkeys and venison seem to be the in thing right now. Never had a deep fried dog, but have been invited to picnics where the bird got dunked in oil. I didn't like it all that much. A chain restuaraunt here (TGI Friday's)serves deep fried green beans. Saw on a tv program a restuarant in NY was deep frying mac & cheese, pizza, and pie.

Crystal

Ray - Mushy peas? Does that just make them easier to pick up with the backside of your fork? We hold our forks "upside down". I am going to let our southern members explain grits and homeny.

Edited October 12, 2008 by Crystal

[tashabear]

...various notable US novelists have ruined otherwise excellent books by misuse of British English. Have you noticed any British writers doing the same to you?

It's always a source of amusement when they set a scene or even an entire book in the States, and then their characters still call an elevator a "lift" or an apartment a "flat". Throws me right out of the story.

And it's just WEIRD to watch House and hear Hugh Laurie speaking with an absolutely perfect American accent, being an intelligent, evil bastard. Shouldn't he be an upper-class twit?

[UKRay]

Oliver was one of my favorite musicals. I've got it in my collection, but it was fun to see that they had a reunion before Jack died. Not too many people into movie musicals, these days...

Fun thread, Ray. I'm curious to know more about Bow Bells. Kate

,

I love those old movie musicals too, but I generally keep it to myself round here...

Here are a few links you might find amusing Kate.

Just to explain, my grandmother lived and worked in and around the East End of London (she worked in Woolwich Arsenal, making ordnance, during WWII) so I was brought up hearing all kinds of East End (what some might call Cockney, I guess) expressions. My father (who has never even lived in London) is still inclined to use Gran's vernacular when he gets upset...

http://www.stmarylebow.co.uk/?Bow_Bells

http://www.cockney.co.uk/

Fans of Are You Being Served will enjoy this link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/areyoubeingserved/index.shtml

Click here for Last of the Summer Wine:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/lastofthesummerwine/

Mushy peas are a Northern institution, Crystal. You can get them almost anywhere they sell fast food and IMHO they are foul... however, here is a recipe. make of it what you will:

Mushy peas

Serves 4-6 475g frozen peas (I like Birds Eye)

65g butter

6 mint leaves

Salt and pepper, to taste

1 Defrost the frozen peas in a large pot filled with cool water — this should take a only few minutes. Strain, shaking off as much excess water as possible.

2 Reserve about one-fifth of the peas.Place the remaining peas into a sauté pan, along with the butter and 50ml water. Cook over a medium heat until all the water has evaporated and the peas are cooked through. If your water is very hard, it would be best to buy some bottled water (or, even better, de-ionized car-battery water) to use when cooking the peas, as this will help to keep their colour bright green.

3 Place the cooked peas into a blender (or use a stick blender) and purée. While blending, adjust the taste by adding the mint leaves and the salt and pepper.

4 Fold in the reserved peas and serve.

Yup, same things happen to us, Tashabear, those lifts and elevators, appartments and flats get just as muddled this side of the pond. My favorite is when the author has her Brit character say something that is so profoundly wrong that, despite being perfectly happy with the book up to that point, you wonder if she ever researched anything.

Hugh Lawrie - I really couldn't say. Perhaps someone else has an opinion on this?

The picture below is of St Mary le Bow Church - home of Bow Bells.

Edited October 12, 2008 by UKRay

[Jordan]

Hugh Lorwrie (sp) cracks me up. Him and Jeeves get into some real capers. Don't remember the name of the show though. "House" on channel 13 is also very good he had to perfect an american accent for that one. Highway is usually the 4 lane between cities and freeway is in the cities but we just call them parking lots. I think there are classes here like the filty rich, rich, wanna be rich, etc. adnauseum. Head is a nautical reference to a crapper and all classes seem to use them when the need arises, irregaurdless of class. I threw a "u" in there for the heck of it when you gotta go you gotta go. Archieologists will probably find a twinkie in a couple of million years, just as fresh as a daisy. Wow, my spelling is horible today

[tashabear]

Hugh Lorwrie (sp) cracks me up. Him and Jeeves get into some real capers. Don't remember the name of the show though.

Laurie, like the girl's name. The show was Jeeves and Wooster, but I was more thinking of him in his various incarnations on Blackadder.

...as I sit here watching The Eleventh Hour on BBC America...

[TwinOaks]

Grits are the South's version of Ambrosia:)

It's coarsely ground corn- white corn for white grits, yellow corn for yellow grits. Boil until softened, but not squishy. Serve lightly salted and peppered, with a spoonful of butter, or alternately with ham and redeye gravy, or cheese. Some folks even ruin them and add sugar, which in my house is referred to as "Rurnt Grits". (oh the mental image y'all must have of me now...)

Overcooked (and unsalted) grits, like rice, makes a pretty good adhesive paste.

Cream of wheat is pretty much like grits, but made from wheat, not corn. Hominy starts out as corn, but the end result is different due to processing, and the fact that most hominy is whole kernal.

[UKRay]

Laurie, like the girl's name. The show was Jeeves and Wooster, but I was more thinking of him in his various incarnations on Blackadder.

...as I sit here watching The Eleventh Hour on BBC America...

Talking of Jeeves and Wooster, I have just watched a brand new, hour long BBC TV program with Stephen Fry touring the top right hand corner of America (New England and all that entails) and talking to people about what makes their part of the US different from the rest. The answers were fascinating and intriguing. He is heading for the 'deep south' next week - I won't be missing that one!

Thanks for the info on grits, TwinOaks. I'm not sure I'm much wiser as we tend to just see sweetcorn over here and that comes in tins. I'm really looking forward to visiting the south next year and sampling all your delicacies. I'm told chitterlings are something to look out for...