What Machine If You Can Only Get One!

[dangerdan46819]

I need some help selectingg a sewing machine. I only have room for one so what is the most versital for holster making. I thought about the Tippman Boss But I think I need both hands on the project!

I would like to keep it down around 1300.00 Used is acceptable.

[mlapaglia]

Tippman Boss. I have one and have been able to do some great holsters, Im not modest , and still holding it with one hand. Power goes out I am still in business. Not as fast as a powered machine but my work load doesnt require super speed. For that price the Boss, in my opinion is the one.

Michael

[billymac814]

For 1300 bucks and a first machine to stitch holsters I would second the Boss. It is a great little machine, it will far outperform just about anything else in that price range unless you get really lucky and get a good deal on something. A lot of people end up getting something that isn't suitable for stitching heavy leather like holsters and it leads to headaches and shotty looking work. The Boss will pull down a nice stitch and have no problems with thick leather. They also really aren't much slower than a powered machine for holsters as even with a powered machine they are running very slow.

Don't worry about needing both hands on a holster, one is pretty much plenty.

I stitched up thousands of holsters on my Boss before I got a Cb 4500, I sometimes wish I would have not waited so long as its much nicer and quieter to use but they both make a nice stitch. If the power goes out they can be hand wheeled too.

I would find a used Boss or at least get one when they are on sale though. New ones for 1500 are a bit much I think. Add a stand some extra bobbins a light and an extra foot and you're pushing 1800 or more, at that point I'd save a little more and get a 441 clone, they start at around 2k or so depending on arm length and what you get with it.

[Art]

A lightly used short arm 441 clone. Call Steve at Leather Machine Co. or Bob at Toledo (I'm not sure if he does used 441s). You might have to add a few bucks or make some other arrangements, but you need a big stitcher.

Art

[Dwight]

When faced with your question, I too bought the Boss. Ben, there in Ft. Wayne has been fantastic at keeping me and my machine running, . . . and FWIW, . . . I only remember one other tool I've ever had that I was as overall satisfied with, . . . a Zippo lighter, back when I smoked.

I do belts, . . . 10 to 12 minutes for a 45 inch belt, . . . sewn along both edges and around the tongue.

Holsters take far less time.

I made a little table out of some scrap plywood and a plastic cutting board, . . . 12 inches square, . . . helps me keep everything straight.

I did not look at others, . . . so I cannot compare, . . . but I am very much satisfied with a sewing machine that will sew through 5 cemented layers of 8 oz leather, . . . and not balk.

May God bless,

Dwight

Edited February 4, 2013 by Dwight

[billymac814]

I agree that a used 441 would be better than a Boss, they are a little more versitile ecspecially if you want to do a lot of belts or other items with smaller thread that has a lot of stitches but they are more expensive and if you're strictly doing holsters the Boss is a very capable and suitable machine for the task at hand and used ones can be found for around 1000 bucks give or take a little depending on what's included.

I don't think you'd regret spending the extra for a 441 but on the same hand I don't think you'd regret buying a used boss either. And buying a used Boss is like putting money in the bank, you can use it for 2-3 years and sell it for what you paid for it.

[St8LineGunsmith]

If I could only have one I wouldn't waste my money on a Tippman Boss it has a shallow throat and continually comes out of adjustment. I would save a little more money and get a Cobra class 4-S, 4-P or a King Cobra 4-25

however trying to stay within a $1300.00 budget the Tech Sew 3650-HD would be my choice.

JM .02

[billymac814]

My Boss never needed adjustment. The only thing I did was upgraded the shuttle to a newer one with the locking mechanism and it was fine, they make nearly no marks on the leather either. If your doing holsters, ecspecially one with a welt you'd be running that Techsew at nearly full capacity. Every machine I own can sew at full capacity but they sew much better sewing less than full capacity. The techsew would be a good choice though if your not going to need to stitch beyond the 7/16" capacity and preferably less and certainly better than the Boss if you'd be doing long runs on straps and belts. Most holsters though have between 30-100 stitches which is no big deal on the Boss and the Boss will stitch 3/4" of an inch with no problem.

If you're strictly making holsters and the occasional belt I would still go with the Boss, is use it until you can afford a 441. Its definitely not a waste of money ecspecially when you can post it for sale and it'll sell within a week and you can ship it anywhere in the country with UPS which makes it easier to sell. It will be more difficult to sell the Techsew with stand and all to anyone who's not local to you.

If I could only keep one of my machines personally it certainly wouldn't be the Boss, however if this guy is handsewing holsters now and that's all he's making a Boss is a very viable option and probably the best option in that price range but that depends on what and how much he needs it, I don't know that we have enough information to recommend what he really needs. If he's trying to run a holster business then he should bite the bullet and spend the money on a 441. If he's doing it as a hobby or small part time business the Boss will fill the bill fine. Mine got me through from hobbyist to part time business to full time before I got a 441.

[dangerdan46819]

I need a little more model info on the 441 who makes it.I want to research that.....remember I know nothing about sewing machines. I live in 4 miles from where the Tippman Boss is made. They are in New Haven, IN I live in North East Ft Wayne. I could go talk to them. I actually used to have them as a customer when i was selling carbide cutting tools they also make the Tippman Paint ball guns.

[billymac814]

The 441 was originally made by Juki but usually now if you hear of a 441 most of us are referring to it as a type of machine as many other manufacturers now clone these. The closest dealer to you would probably be Bob Kovar at Toledo Industrial Sewing machine co the machine he sells is the Cowboy 3500(short arm) and 4500 with the long arm and 5500 really long arm. There's also the Cobra brand, Toro, Highlead and probably others.

They are great machines and if you can swing it now I don't thing you'll be disappointed but I very highly doubt you'll be within budget unless you get a really killer deal on one. You'll probably be somewhere closer to 1800.00 on a used one plus if you can't find one local to you shipping will be freight and another few hundred. I think there's one in the for sale section right now, I believe its a Toro.

It may be handy that you live by Tippmann if you ever need a part or advice but even though I think a Tippmann would be a good choice I would not buy a new one as the price is getting too close to a used 441 clone. You could get a used one between 900-1100 depending on what it comes with and for the most part it has the same capacity as the 441 but it does have a narrow throat but this is almost never an issue with holsters.

I hand stitched everything until I had enough orders that I HAD to get a machine. The Boss was what I chose and I loved it, compared to hand sewing I could stitch a holster in less time than it would have taken me to thread my needles and I could do belts fairly easily, I used that machine for several years even when I was making 50 and 60 holsters at a time. Then I made the mistake of trying a Cowboy as I was picking up another machine and I had to have one. As far as holsters go its not much better or quicker but it is nicer to use.

The Boss is a great stepping stone though and ill say it again, you won't lose any money on it, you can buy one and use it while you're saving up for a brand new Cowboy, when you have another grand or so put the Boss up for sale, it'll be gone in less than a week and go get your Cowboy. If you can swing the money for a new Cowboy from the get go then that's fine too but not all of us could go out and drop that kind of cash when were just starting out and then it seems most of us forget that and tell everyone they should go right out and buy a 2500.00 machine.

[Art]

Go see Bob Kovar, at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines and let him SHOW you what a 441 is and what different machines you can get to do your projects, His info is in the banners at the top of the page and I included a link to his website,

Art

[Bob Blea]

My thanks to all who have posted on this topic. Like the OP I don't know much about sewing machines and I'm probably not looking to get one this year, but I'm starting to learn about them. The info in this post has been very helpful.

Bob

[Art]

Bob and Dan,

There are shows throughout the year that are attended by some of the dealers on this forum. Wickenburg, AZ and Sheridan WY are the big ones, but the boot and saddlemakers roundup in Wichita Falls TX is also another good one. These are opportunities to put you hands on the machines and get some one on one instruction from Steve and Dave, and Bob. You can also take delivery at a show and save on shipping.

Art

[Bob Blea]

I've been to Sheridan and I've seen the sewing machines there, but I'm honestly so ignorant on them that I feel lucky to recognize one if I trip over it!

I'm planning this year to talk to some of them and I'm trying to educate myself so I don't look like a complete idiot.

Bob

[billymac814]

I made it a point to not touch a 441 until I could afford one. You don't know what your missing if you don't know what ones like. I loved my Boss until I used the Cowboy.

I also made the mistake of using the Claes patcher at the SSIA show and instantly made me want one and made me think less of my Adler.

I would highly recommend the Cowboy but if you can't swing the cash the Boss is a viable option. Also depending on what you're doing you could afford a Boss and a flatbed machine for other projects which would cover more of your bases than just a 441 alone.

Here's a good deal just posted but its 700 more than your budget but its about 700 cheaper than new.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=45738#entry287815