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Need Help Picking Out A Machine

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I have never posted in a forum, so let's see if this works.

I have been in business 20 years, manufacturing and selling gift items at trade show.

I have recently begun making items of leather and am in need of a more powerful sewing machine than I now own. (Janme HD 3000)

I will sew leather from light weight to medium-heavy weight. (up to approximately 1/2" thick)

I only need a straight stitch with forward and reverse. The simpler to use, the better for me. It would be nice to have an automatic thread cutter to cut the thread even with the material at the end of a seam, speed very easily adjustable from slow to medium speed, a very powerful motor, a large bobbin with the ability to fill the bobbin without removing the needle from the item being sewn.

It would also be nice to be able to operate with 115 volt electricity, but I can provide 230 volt if necessary.

Please understand that my "wish list" is not all necessary, but the more items available, the better.

I mainly need to sew heavy men's wallets without leaving any scuff marks and have a very pretty seam around the wallet.

Please advise me what you might recommend. I have located an overseas source for a clone of a Juki TSC-441 for $1150 plus freight from Hong Kong, but it looks like it might be too much machine for my needs. There is also the issue of buying a piece of equipment without knowing what I am doing and then finding out I have to buy a bunch of accessories that cost an arm and a leg.

Any advice for a new guy to the leather business will be greatly appreciated.

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Call the sewing machine folks at the top of the page i'm sure all would be happy to talk about a machine that would fit your needs. I'd stay away from the one you found in Hong Kong because i doubt you would have any dealer support.

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You will get a ton of advice but if you're looking for a versatile machine that will do all of that EXCEPT sew 1/2" leather, it's a singer 15-91. It will sew anything you can shove under the foot which is 1/4th inch. It has a potted motor, all gear driven and it's really a beast. It has forward and reverse. No tension issues, not picky, not a finicky machine. Stick the material under it and go. It doesn't have a huge bobbin but it can be removed and replaced without moving the needle. And I got mine for $54.00 shipped WITH an antique cabinet. Did I mention I love mine? Cheryl

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Ditto what Dirtclod said. You may think you don't need a -441 type machine, but when sewing leather...ALWAYS get more machine than you think you'll need.

You have some fairly specific requirements, some of which (thread cutter) may require some accessories. Call Steve at Cobra, or Bob at Toledo and tell them what you need as well as what size thread you want to use. Both dealers have exceptional sales and service records with our members here, and it may come down to who's closer, which could save you on shipping. There's also a better than "good" chance that they can set the machine up before shipping so that you have an absolute minimum of adjustment to get started.

A final suggestion: If you can, opt for a machine that has "triple" or "Unison" feed. It combines a walking foot, feed dogs, and needle feed to provide the best option for multiple layers of leather.

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Than you for the prompt help.

I think from what I'm reading so far that I will have to re-think what I actually need.

The reason I am getting more and more into leather is because we are now setting up our sales booth at Las Vegas National Finals Rodeo, Fort Worth Stock Show, San Antonio Stock Show and Houston Stock Show. We have 10' x 10' booths and not a lot of room to add heavy things like chaps and saddle bags.

From a lot of what I am reading on the forum, the Consew 206RB sounds more in line with what I plan to be doing.

I think this forum is going to be a lifesaver for me and save me a lot of mistakes and thrown away dollars.

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Still check with the dealers. There are clones of the 206 by various companies...Cobra, Cowboy, Techsew, Consew......yada, yada, yada. The different versions may have slightly different specs.....for example, one may have a 7/16ths lift capable of sewing 3/8ths...and one may have a 9/16ths lift capable of 1/2".

There's also the question of which motor you'll want. Most (actually I think ALL) of the dealers set the machines up with DC motors for more torque at low RPM, and/or speed reduction pulleys. You can still sew fast with them, but it will allow you to slow waaaaay down when needed and still be able to sew.

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call Toledo Bob or Steve....they will tell you what works and what not, 15-91...NOT, 206 still not enough....a 441 clone or an Adler will do....1/2 inch of leather is a load full and you wont be happy with a broken overloaded machine either...

Look for used ones from above dealers....stay away from Heavy duty garment machines....oh, and read wiz's tutorial on leather sewing machines!!

Greetings

James

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Hmmm. So many requests for features and such a wide range of leather to be sewn. This may call for something out of the usual and ordinary. Let's see what you are asking for:

  • Leather capable sewing machine that leaves no marks
  • Thicknesses ranging from wallets (1/8"?), up to 1/2 inch
  • Thread cutter
  • Bobbin changes with needle down
  • Forward and reverse straight stitch
  • Easy to control motor with wide range at bottom end

Your first request calls for a machine that has no teeth on the top of bottom. This can be done with most compound feed machines. However, all but the 441 clones have teeth on the feed dogs. This means you might have to fill in the gaps between teeth in the feed dog with rubber, dipping compound, or brazed in bronze, etc.

The second requirement leaves out 99.5% of all currently produced industrial sewing machines. Most walking foor machines max out at 3/8 inches under the presser feet. The remaining 1/2% is filled by the Juki LU-1508NH (or clones), which sew about 7/16 inch, the Juki TSC 441 (or clones; e.g: Cowboy, Cobra, Techsew 441 types), which sew 3/4+ inches, and the Cowboy CB2500 and GA5-1R machines, which sew 7/16 inches. Also, some Adler and Pfaff machines and some specialized Chinese and Japanese machines (Cowboy, Cobra, Techsew, Highlead, etc) have over 1/2 inch capabilities.

Machines set up for sewing 1/2 inch or more tend to not have thin needles for thin threads available. This limits you to sewing with #138 or larger on many high lift machines. Others accept small needles, but often require adjustments or parts replacements to effectively sew with thinner thread.

A dealer may be able to adapt a thread cutter to the presser lift lever for you. Contact our dealers and ask them about this. It will not be trivial and will cost $$$.

The next item, bobbins that can be replaced with the needle down in the material, only applies to vertical axis shuttle machines. Horizontal axis shuttles, like those used in the 441 machines and all Singer 15 and 31 class machines, oscillate along a horizontal shaft axis. You will probably have to remove the needle from the work to change bobbins. I haven't tried doing a bobbin reload with the needle down at all. There will be top thread wrapped around the shuttle and bobbin case until the needle is fully raised. Opening the bobbin case may jam that thread. I'll try it tomorrow and let you know if is doable.

Most leather stitchers have a single lever that goes forward or reverse, depending on the position. Others use a stitch length dial and a separate reverse lever that you hit with your right palm.

My motors sew very slowly, until I press down on the floor pedals. Not every motor is so easy to control. Some have to be modified with light baffles to get any usable low speed control at all.

Edited by Wizcrafts

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Hi Copbadge,

I was recently in Ohio on some company related business with sewing machines and automobile floor mats ( sewing the binder material on)...

anyway, the machines were Juki's 1510's and they had a fancy servo motor which had some simple programable features, for such things such as backtacking a certain amount of stitches etc etc...these machines had an auto thread cutting feature too.

While we were only using bonded 69 thread, these machines were similar to the material capabilites of a Singer 111W155. or the Consew equivelant walking foot machines

But 1/2 of leather would have probalby have been too much for these machines....more like 3/8 ths of an inch of leather....

With 135 x 16 needles, these jukis were zipping through 20 ounces of floor mat material with ease but as you probably know leather is a whole different beast....

However, if you are happy to stay around 3/8ths thickness, and use 138 thread, then check out those Juki 1510's ....I was impressed by them... they had auto thread winders too....

All the best!

Gavin

Edited by wind power

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Reading Wizcraft comments (I have been reading your many posts about various machine parts, etc., and I have a great deal of respect in what you have to say) it looks like I am even more confused about what I need than I thought, if that's possible.

The thinnest leather I have been sewing so far is i thickness of 4 to 5 ounce oil rubbed leather to put a seam around a strap for decorative and the heaviest so far is 1 thickness of 4 to 5 ounce cowhide plus 4 thicknesses of split pig skin liner material. My little Janome doesn't really get the job done. It is a little light weight for the 5 thicknesses of cowhide and pig skin and it really leave bad scuff marks on the oil rubbed strap. I am using the add-on walking foot, which I have learned is slightly better than useless.

I fell victim to the e-bay heavy duty leather ads and put out $400 for the Janome and I have learned that I could have bought a REAL walking foot machine for little more than that and could at least have used it ling enough to know what I really want in a machine.

I have sewn 1,000 credit card holders and a couple hundred wallets with it, but I would be a lot prouder of the quality on a machine more suited to my needs.

Looking at the Cowboy site, it looks like the Cobra class 4 might do all I really want and a lot more if it will handle the light weight stuff and not leave scuff marks.

I will phone him tomorrow and have a phone conversation and might get rid of some of the cobwebs in my brain. Heck, he might even have something in the used market that will handle me and not tear up my pocketbook too bad.

I really appreciate all the good comments and help and I will definitely lean on you guys before I leap into these thing in the future.

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Not a big fan of trying to make one machine do everything as there are always compromises - as Wiz has pointed out.

There are lots of options that will sew up to about 3/8" with 135X17 needles such as the Seiko CW8. Like all cylinder bed machines a flat bed is not hard to cobble up.

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If you can sew your projects on a flat bed machine, a beefed up walking foot machine should handle either 3/8 of medium, or 7/16 inches of soft temper leather. The Juki 1508NH has a huge bobbin and high lifting feet. It is equipped with the Pfaff needle system 190, which is 3/16 inch longer than the standard 135x(16/17). Material is also cut out in the back of the head to allow the feet to alternate at these heights, without hitting the opening on the back.

A new Juki LU-1508NH sells for approximately $2600. Check with our dealers and see what kind of deal they might be able to offer you.

For the same money you could buy a short cylinder arm Cowboy CB3500 (441 clone), with a flat table attachment. The machine could be setup to ensure that it sews with thinner thread that you want to use in your wallets, up to #346 used in thick holsters and such. The bobbins are huge and this machine can do it all, from about 6 ounces, up to 7/8 inches. I have the longer arm version and it handles everything from #92 up to #346 thread that I have on hand. I use it to hem leather and denim cuffs, sew chaps, sew belts, assemble holsters and ammo pouches, saddlebags and motorcycle seats. I even use mine to sew in new zippers onto jackets, chaps, etc.

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I have never posted in a forum, so let's see if this works.

I have been in business 20 years, manufacturing and selling gift items at trade show.

I have recently begun making items of leather and am in need of a more powerful sewing machine than I now own. (Janme HD 3000)

I will sew leather from light weight to medium-heavy weight. (up to approximately 1/2" thick)

I only need a straight stitch with forward and reverse. The simpler to use, the better for me. It would be nice to have an automatic thread cutter to cut the thread even with the material at the end of a seam, speed very easily adjustable from slow to medium speed, a very powerful motor, a large bobbin with the ability to fill the bobbin without removing the needle from the item being sewn.

It would also be nice to be able to operate with 115 volt electricity, but I can provide 230 volt if necessary.

Please understand that my "wish list" is not all necessary, but the more items available, the better.

I mainly need to sew heavy men's wallets without leaving any scuff marks and have a very pretty seam around the wallet.

Please advise me what you might recommend. I have located an overseas source for a clone of a Juki TSC-441 for $1150 plus freight from Hong Kong, but it looks like it might be too much machine for my needs. There is also the issue of buying a piece of equipment without knowing what I am doing and then finding out I have to buy a bunch of accessories that cost an arm and a leg.

Any advice for a new guy to the leather business will be greatly appreciated.

It may be unpopular opinion but I'm going to go ahead and say you don't need a 441 clone to sew wallets. We have many customers using flatbed or cylinder walking foot machines with 3/8" sewing capacity for sewing wallets, phone cases, belts, notebook covers and more. In our experience 3/8" is enough for most kinds of general leather work. This kind of machine will use up to a #24 needle and #210 thread.

Also I would not pursue the purchase of a machine directly from an overseas supplier...warranty and tech support are extremely important and you'll breath a lot easier making this investment knowing that if something goes wrong you'll have a dealer to back you up.

Cheers,

Ron

Edited by Ronnie

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Ronnie, thanks for that input.

I am just about to come to the same conclusion. I realized my original "wish list" was a gross overkill when I wrote it, but I didn't realize that leather machines are that much different from household machines.

Tell me, would it be a huge mistake to buy a Singer 153 from a local established industrial machine dealer here in Fort Worth for $300 complete that he has cleaned and tuned up with a 30 day guarantee.

My thinking is that it should get me one step up from what I now have and give me much more experience before I decide what I eventually want. It seems like it would also be a "keeper" for light weight stuff if I decide to get a really heavy machine in the future.

Also, would the Singer be too complicated for a beginner like me to use?

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Ronnie, thanks for that input.

I am just about to come to the same conclusion. I realized my original "wish list" was a gross overkill when I wrote it, but I didn't realize that leather machines are that much different from household machines.

Tell me, would it be a huge mistake to buy a Singer 153 from a local established industrial machine dealer here in Fort Worth for $300 complete that he has cleaned and tuned up with a 30 day guarantee.

My thinking is that it should get me one step up from what I now have and give me much more experience before I decide what I eventually want. It seems like it would also be a "keeper" for light weight stuff if I decide to get a really heavy machine in the future.

Also, would the Singer be too complicated for a beginner like me to use?

I likle my Techsew 2700. Does a great job. You can add a flat table adaptor to it so you have both the flat bed and cylinder arm. If you are going to work on the heavier end like 2 layers of 8 oz, I would add a speed reduction pulley as well.

CTG

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Tell me, would it be a huge mistake to buy a Singer 153 from a local established industrial machine dealer here in Fort Worth for $300 complete that he has cleaned and tuned up with a 30 day guarantee.

Also, would the Singer be too complicated for a beginner like me to use?

$300 is a great price IF it includes table/legs/motor/bobbin winder/light/thread stand/knee lifter/etc. I do not think it would be too complicated for you - as you have experience with the home machine and could probably figure this one out. The big negative (in my mind) is the lack of a reverse, it's awfully handy especially if you're used to having it. Good luck.

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Ronnie, thanks for that input.

I am just about to come to the same conclusion. I realized my original "wish list" was a gross overkill when I wrote it, but I didn't realize that leather machines are that much different from household machines.

Tell me, would it be a huge mistake to buy a Singer 153 from a local established industrial machine dealer here in Fort Worth for $300 complete that he has cleaned and tuned up with a 30 day guarantee.

My thinking is that it should get me one step up from what I now have and give me much more experience before I decide what I eventually want. It seems like it would also be a "keeper" for light weight stuff if I decide to get a really heavy machine in the future.

Also, would the Singer be too complicated for a beginner like me to use?

$300 sounds almost too good to be true. Is that including table and servo motor? Make sure it works before purchasing - take some samples over and don't give the guy a penny until you like what you see and are comfortable with the machine. We sell a 153 clone with reverse and it's a very user friendly machine so I don't think it'll be too complicated for you to use as a beginner. A servo motor definitely helps when starting out so you can control the sewing speed.

Ron

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I'll have to agree @ $300.00 it's a great price & we work on alot of these & have all the parts,needles,thread,servo motors & etc in stock.

Bob

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