Possible Belt Making Opportunity

[JS22]

I called a hide dealer today to enquire about a couple gator hides for an upcoming project. In our quite lengthy conversation he proposed I make him 20 or so belts using his hides which he would provide. He asked what I would charge to provide the leather and hardware not to include the buckles. The buckles would be at his cost. Knowing that I am paying about $ 5 a square foot for double shoulders and about .20 cent a piece for chicago screws, I would have about $3 of my own material in each belt not including glue, and thread which is nominal. If these were your cost. What would your time be worth? More bluntly put, what would you charge per unit complete? Also, keep in mind, the next order would be in the 100's range.

Thanks!

[dirtclod]

I would see how many square feet is in the double shoulder. Then convert that to square inches and figure what it cost a square inch. Then figure how many inches you have in a belt. Add on what you need to make something on the leather. Time your self on doing a belt start to finish and figure what you need to make a hour. Add the leather cost and your wage plus some profit and you have your price.

[Art]

Hi JS,

Don't worry about the 100's of belts, I would at least double my materials and charge what you want per hour for your time for a single belt. When it gets to the 100s, don't give a cent just because of the volume, they always try that and you end-up working for nothing. If one belt costs x, then 100 belts cost 100x. If volume comes into it, you charge double your time for one-offs and you reduce that for volume.

Art

I called a hide dealer today to enquire about a couple gator hides for an upcoming project. In our quite lengthy conversation he proposed I make him 20 or so belts using his hides which he would provide. He asked what I would charge to provide the leather and hardware not to include the buckles. The buckles would be at his cost. Knowing that I am paying about $ 5 a square foot for double shoulders and about .20 cent a piece for chicago screws, I would have about $3 of my own material in each belt not including glue, and thread which is nominal. If these were your cost. What would your time be worth? More bluntly put, what would you charge per unit complete? Also, keep in mind, the next order would be in the 100's range.

Thanks!

[bkingery]

I agree with Art, your time should be at least ten dollars an hour. Period. thats what they make at Mcdonalds around here so your time should be at least that. You said they were going to supply the leather but then you said you would be using your dbl shoulders. if your using your own stuff then eight dollars for supplies and ten dollars and hour, If you can make two belts in an hour then that would be 14.00 minimum a piece. And for sure don't let them pay you later, get at least half up front before you even start cutting, even if it is their leather.

Let us know how it turns out.

Peace

Bryan

( i'm working on the paragraph thing haha)

[JS22]

Thanks for the replies so far. To clarify, I will only be supplying the leather, screws, and my time and effort. The buyer will supply the alligator hides and buckles. Best I can figure, I will have right at $3 in cost into each belt. I've been tooling around the $18 to $20 dollar range. This would pay for the materials and net me $ 15 to $ 17 an hour for my time and effort. If I run these belts as a production run ( cutting, laminating, sewing, burnishing, edging in steps, I don't think I'll have but about an hour of actual work in to each belt, if that. Am I on the right track? Any and all opinions appreciated.

[steve hansl]

I would try and find out what the buyer wants to sell them at and charge 1/3 to 1/2 of the price,probably 1/2.If he knew how to do it he probably wouldn't be asking.

[rdb]

If he sells an alligator belt at $200, you should get at least $120. $60% + or - over cost is more than a legitimate profit. You are entitled to yours.

[King's X]

I would try and find out what the buyer wants to sell them at and charge 1/3 to 1/2 of the price,probably 1/2.If he knew how to do it he probably wouldn't be asking.

I totally agree with Steve. Chances are this dealer has already looked and asked around so they know what "a belt" cost or has a good idea from other vendors. i am taking an educated guess, of course. Don't sell yourself short or you will be working for nothing or more important not be motivated for doing the work that you are being paid to do.

Good luck.

[bkingery]

Thanks for the replies so far. To clarify, I will only be supplying the leather, screws, and my time and effort. The buyer will supply the alligator hides and buckles. Best I can figure, I will have right at $3 in cost into each belt. I've been tooling around the $18 to $20 dollar range. This would pay for the materials and net me $ 15 to $ 17 an hour for my time and effort. If I run these belts as a production run ( cutting, laminating, sewing, burnishing, edging in steps, I don't think I'll have but about an hour of actual work in to each belt, if that. Am I on the right track? Any and all opinions appreciated.

Ok so he is ONLY supplying the alligator, what are you going to do with it, laminate, inlay,full wrap, I would charge at least half of what he would be selling them for.

Bryan

[Art]

If HE is supplying the gator, then maybe a third of what he gets or about $66 per. Remember that you are responsible for the gator if you screw up, so you have to get more than $20. Also, if he is supplying the gator, then doing a run of 100 for him is ok, you don't even need any up front money, however you MUST be paid in full before shipping them to him.

Art

Ok so he is ONLY supplying the alligator, what are you going to do with it, laminate, inlay,full wrap, I would charge at least half of what he would be selling them for.

Bryan

[JS22]

I am not sure what he is going to sell the belts for. I know I wouldn't, or should I say, couldn't sell them for anything less than about $200 if I were paying for the hides. The more I think of it, The fact is, I'm doing all the work I would do anyway to sell and profit from a $200 belt, yet not making the $ 200 because I am using his supplied hide. I think you guys are right, I may be selling myself short. Maybe the $50 to $60 range would be more inline. Only thing is. I don't know how much he has into each hide on his end, and if this would price him out of the ballgame. Another question I may should ask is, what does he expect done with the scraps. ( The middle of the belly and neck section that are left over ) If he's going to let me keep these, I can make a great profit on holsters and sheaths. This all brings up another thought. If he's going to expect me to try and use the whole hide, ie., piece together belts out of what section I cant cut the full length from, We're talkin a whole new ball game. I guess I have alot of questions???

[particle]

I typed up a response this morning, but got distracted and hit cancel.

You are right - you're doing all the work, but you're not having to do any of the marketing. You have a (hopefully) guaranteed buyer, so you are out nothing. Yes, you could make more if you made them yourself and bought all your own materials, but you're also out a lot more money for the gator hides.

I'm about to start making belts, so I haven't tested this number yet. Someone here said you can make a belt in about 15 minutes. I'm going to say it's more like 30 minutes for me. If I can sell a gun belt for about $80 (judging by the price of The Belt Man's even higher priced belts), I can probably make about $160 per hour, minus maybe $10 max in materials per belt. $80 might be a little too high, but even if I sold them for $60, I'm still making about $100/hr once you back out materials.

Do this first batch for the guy as a trial run. Get the kinks worked out, figure out how much time it's taking per belt, your own material costs, etc., then arrive at a comfortable hourly rate (based on your production speed and belt-output per hour). I would include in the contract that you will be keeping the scraps. If he won't let you keep them, charge him more per belt!

[Cowboy Crafts Online]

I would like to add some advice. Quit using chicago screws and buys some good snaps from Ohio travel bag. It will give you a professional look. Also they are cheaper than the screws.

Ash

[TwinOaks]

I haven't seen it stated that you'll have a contract.....is this a verbal agreement, or will there be a written contract? This is CRUCIALLY IMPORTANT. You are potentially looking at a lot of money, so there needs to be NO question about who does what, how much money changes hands, where the scraps go, etc. All of the above is good advice, and as usual, the devil is in the details. My plain belts start at $65. That's for a good piece of leather (9/10oz) sized to the customer's request ( I make it like they want if they don't accept my suggestions....if they're wrong, well they'll pay me to fix it), finished edges, slicked flesh side, dyed and sealed, with a skived and folded tongue, and a belt keeper. From there, it goes up. Lined? Tooled? Conchos? Ranger style? They're all available, but it all costs money. The most expensive one I've made so far was $100, and I think I fairly well gave that one away after I looked at the cost of materials (leather,conchos, and buckle) and time (layout and stitching of raised pieces between the conchos). It's all good though, that one belt has made orders for 3 more....at more appropriate prices.

You are doing the right thing by asking LOTS of questions. I didn't realize how badly I was shorting myself until I had a friend price my products for me. When told me he quoted $100 for the above mentioned belt, my eyes bulged out and my jaw dropped. When he said the customer whipped out the money with quickness, I grinned. I think the most common mistake for those of us getting into this business is that we underestimate the quality of our work and the value that quality has to our customers. It's good to get other people's perspectives.

[Hennessy]

I haven't seen it stated that you'll have a contract.....is this a verbal agreement, or will there be a written contract? This is CRUCIALLY IMPORTANT. You are potentially looking at a lot of money, so there needs to be NO question about who does what, how much money changes hands, where the scraps go, etc. All of the above is good advice, and as usual, the devil is in the details. My plain belts start at $65. That's for a good piece of leather (9/10oz) sized to the customer's request ( I make it like they want if they don't accept my suggestions....if they're wrong, well they'll pay me to fix it), finished edges, slicked flesh side, dyed and sealed, with a skived and folded tongue, and a belt keeper. From there, it goes up. Lined? Tooled? Conchos? Ranger style? They're all available, but it all costs money. The most expensive one I've made so far was $100, and I think I fairly well gave that one away after I looked at the cost of materials (leather,conchos, and buckle) and time (layout and stitching of raised pieces between the conchos). It's all good though, that one belt has made orders for 3 more....at more appropriate prices.

You are doing the right thing by asking LOTS of questions. I didn't realize how badly I was shorting myself until I had a friend price my products for me. When told me he quoted $100 for the above mentioned belt, my eyes bulged out and my jaw dropped. When he said the customer whipped out the money with quickness, I grinned. I think the most common mistake for those of us getting into this business is that we underestimate the quality of our work and the value that quality has to our customers. It's good to get other people's perspectives.

well a fella had a good idea about making a product and marketing it,he went to some various mfg;rs and got some quotes .tried a few samples from various mfg'rs settled on one [or two] and built some.he got them into a few salesmans hands and they took off ! shortly thereafter he had competition MADE IN CHINA,INDIA AND THE PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF ANYWHEREBUTHERE FOUND AT YOUR LOCAL WAL MART ! I JUST EMAILED MY CONGRESSMAN about fuel n stuff and EQUAL TRADE OR NO TRADE WHAT ELSE IS THERE TO DO BESIDE WORKING FOR WAL MART WAGES ?

[King's X]

I got to say that it is a tough market for those of you in the leather business. Right now, I am considering a business quote and I have taken not only my advice, but all of the advise set forth in the threads here. The last thing I want to do is lose my A _ _ making anything. Breaking even and maybe making a few bucks for someone in my position is just fine. Making a living is another story. I have made a few belts in the past and I took some advice from an old leather worker. He suggested a per inch tier system of charging for the cost of making belts. He had a Basic, Geometric, Tooled and Specialty tier system for charging per inch. The guy made a living. I am so new that I haven't got a $ system down yet.

As for getting a good idea as to how much or how long it is going to take you to make a belt. I would try out a 2-3 belt sample test keeping track of time and materials. Take an average of all the belt time and come up with an average cost & time. This should give you a good idea of an average cost. Just remember completing your first belt is fun and the idea provides you the drive, but what kinda drive will you have at your 60th or 99th belt? Will it still take you 30 minutes? Just think about it.

Okay, this should be enough to confuse you! Good luck

[simran]

I would like to add some advice. Quit using chicago screws and buys some good snaps from Ohio travel bag. It will give you a professional look. Also they are cheaper than the screws.

Ash

This is excellent advice Ash! Belt snaps take a little bit of getting used to but I'd say after the 10th belt you'd either be a pro or bald from pulling your hair out.

Seriously though; they are more professional looking and less expensive

[ABC3]

We make alot of belts but I think we're doing something wrong. There is no way we can make a handcrafted belt in 30 minutes or even an hour.

Maybe I need to rethink my process....

[mojoewrkn]

Do you ever worry they will come undone? I am having trouble picturing how a snap would be better than a screw? Can someone send me a link to one of these snaps so I can see what kind you are using?

This is excellent advice Ash! Belt snaps take a little bit of getting used to but I'd say after the 10th belt you'd either be a pro or bald from pulling your hair out.

Seriously though; they are more professional looking and less expensive

[KAYAK45]

Hey all!

One of the things MAYBE missing, I think, in the calculation of "time to do a belt" is "time for overhead".

So you can make a belt (one) in xxx minutes. Who sharpens the knives? Who sets up and maintains the machines?

Who orders the supplies? Who sends out bills and keeps track of cash? Who files the tax returns?

All of these TASKS must be performed by someone! These are hours needed to produce, and yet not calculated?

OH, and who cleans the shop, at night, after a run?

Compute the TOTAL TIME TO RUN A SHOP, the divide it to the item count?

IN most business envirements it takes 3,000 hours a year to achieve 1,500 "billable" IE "making" hours. Who is paying for that other 1,500 hours?

I have no answers here, just a thought on COST!

AND, I even forgot and have to edit. Who pays for the cost of tools, machines and the all needed light bills, ETC.?

Kevin

Edited August 23, 2012 by KAYAK45

[robertmeco]

Alligator belts range from $300.00 to $500.00

[TwinOaks]

mojoe, I don't think the OP is going to respond to you on this one.....the thread is over a year old, and the OP hasn't been online since Feb of this year.

To answer your question, a lot of belts have SEGMA snaps instead of Chicago screws because they're easy to set and they have a small profile....and they're mostly used on unlined belts. For the record, I build mine with Chicago screws, and if I supply the buckle, they've got loc-tite on them so they don't work loose.

[mojoewrkn]

Thanks TwinOaks, I didn't realize how old the thread was!

mojoe, I don't think the OP is going to respond to you on this one.....the thread is over a year old, and the OP hasn't been online since Feb of this year.

To answer your question, a lot of belts have SEGMA snaps instead of Chicago screws because they're easy to set and they have a small profile....and they're mostly used on unlined belts. For the record, I build mine with Chicago screws, and if I supply the buckle, they've got loc-tite on them so they don't work loose.