Saddle Seat Question

[GrampaJoel]

When ordering a saddle tree, how does one go about making sure the seat comes out the size wanted when the saddle is done?

For example,

If I wanted a saddle when completed to have a 16 inch seat, what size seat would i order?

Is this taken into consideration when the tree is being built by the tree builder?

The saddle I have now has a padded seat, and was sold as a 17inch seat. But when measured it is 16 inches. However, if you push the padding down against the cantel, the seat measures 17 inches.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Joel

[Shelly]

When ordering a saddle tree, how does one go about making sure the seat comes out the size wanted when the saddle is done?

For example,

If I wanted a saddle when completed to have a 16 inch seat, what size seat would i order?

Is this taken into consideration when the tree is being built by the tree builder?

The saddle I have now has a padded seat, and was sold as a 17inch seat. But when measured it is 16 inches. However, if you push the padding down against the cantel, the seat measures 17 inches.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Joel

I always order 1/4 extra in the wood for a finished hard seat - need 1/2 to a full inch to accomodate a reining/pleasure saddle that has a padded seat/buildup on the swell. The padded seats always shorten the finished length alot. I always ask my customers what they are currently riding, do they want it shorter/longer, is it padded/hard seat, and take that into account when we are discussing what they want in the new saddle.

I always order 1/4 extra in the wood for a finished hard seat - need 1/2 to a full inch to accomodate a reining/pleasure saddle that has a padded seat/buildup on the swell. The padded seats always shorten the finished length alot. I always ask my customers what they are currently riding, do they want it shorter/longer, is it padded/hard seat, and take that into account when we are discussing what they want in the new saddle.

I will also tell the tree maker that the seat needs to be '---' inches, when they are finished. It makes a difference in the wood, and if they fiberglass the tree or rawhide it...

[jwwright]

It makes alot of difference on how your tree maker does things. There are tree makers , that if you order a 16" length, they will build it 16 1/4" so you can finish at about 16". Others, if you order 16", that's what you'll get, and the seat will finish shorter. So, visit with who ever you are ordering the tree from, and let them know your desired finished seat length. On another note.....................seat length is really a not very accurate way to determine how much room there will be in the seat . With many tree makers.............if you take 2 identical trees as far as swells, cantle shape, etc., .............and one is built with a 4 1/2" cantle , the other with a 3 1/2" high cantle.........with both measuring 16" seat length...................the one with the 4 1/2" high cantle will ride quite a bit smaller than the one with lower cantle. The measurment from the back of the swell , straight back along the bar to the point of the cantle is a better way to judge seat size really. Also the measurement from the back of the fork to the top of the cantle gullet is a good way to compare. More than you asked about, and I apologize for rambling..............have a good un. JW

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

We build trees so what you order is the measured seat length (top of hand hole to cantle) when the tree is finished. We don't account for the saddle maker's shortening it up because how much it is shortened depends on how the seat is built. The saddle maker's answers will help you figure that out.

Although it is traditionally used in the saddle making industry, seat length is not the ideal way to measure room for the rider. The cantle point to fork measurement, which we call thigh length, is one we use. We try to explain why on our website here: http://www.rodnikkel.com/www3.telus.net/public/rdnikkel/Seat_Length_and_Thigh_Length_November_2006.pdf

[GrampaJoel]

Thank you

Shelly that sounds like a very logical way to go about getting the seat the right size. Thank you.

JW you can ramble all you want in answering my questions. They always seem to be the best kind of rambleing that I have seen. Thank you.

Rod thank you for taking time to help me out again. I have been studying your web site. Usually when I finish, I have to get up and go take a break from thinking, just to let all the wonderful knowledge sink in and settle.

Thank you for taking the time to put up the web site.

So it seems that a good question and answer session between saddle builder, and the saddle buyer to get the correct measurements, and another one with the tree maker, describing the measurements, as to what is needed and wanted.

So, as usual, all I have to do is just Ask all the right questions,

put the info together,

and describe to the tree maker what is wanted to be built as far as the tree goes.

build the saddle correctly, and the saddle will be as the buyer wanted.

If I could just remember all the info I have been reading in the books and the web sites, and watching on DVD's, I wouldn't be asking all these questions. I know all the answers to my questions are there, but,,,

It seems that the world of building saddles has caused my old brain capacity to expand again. I think I'm getting dizzy...

But when there is a gap in knowledge,,,,,, this is the place to come.

Thanks again folks you are very kind!!

Joel

[kseidel]

GrandpaJoel,

I always allow a full 1/2" extra in tree length for finished seat measurement without padded seat. This allows a 1/4" of leather of swell cover, and 1/4" of seat leather covering the tree. More if making a saddle with a overlaid padded seat.

JW and Nikkel's are correct regarding seat space. In addition to their comments, the pitch to the swell and the cantle also affect seat space. Different treemakers make the same parts with different angles. One may have an association swell leaned forward more and the cantle pitched back more, and therefore make the seat leg space smaller than someone else making the same association stood up straighter, and the cantle at a steeper angle and have a much longer leg space. To quote Denise "All treemakers do things differently." You must know how your treemaker builds his trees and there is a learning curve developing that relationship. You are no doubt learning that there is much trial and error learning to make saddles professionally.

Keith

[GrampaJoel]

kseidel

Thank you for sharing your methods, and the way you measure a tree for the seat length.

You are correct in stating" You are no doubt learning that there is much trial and error learning to make saddles professionally."

Even though at this point I am not planning on making saddles as a profession, there certainly is an enormous amount of knowledge that is needed to build a saddle just for myself.

Thanks again for your much valued input.

Joel