Honing oil & sharpening help

[Hilly]

Can I use machine oil in place of honing oil? Where can I get plain old honing oil? Hardware store?

One of these times, I'll figure out how to get my head knife sharpened good. I can only get it "kinda" good, and that's not good enough! Can't cut smaller curves with a dull head knife.

I hold the head knife at about a 20 degree angle (I looked at my protractor, so I have a good idea of the angle), and do circles into the blade till I feel a burr all along the edge. I flip it over and do the other side till I feel a burr. I'm using a fine Arkansas stone. I strop each edge several times using the same angle on a rouge coated leather strop. I go to cut my leather, and damn, it's not sharp! It cuts hairs off my arm, but it isn't sharp. What am I doing wrong???? By the time I figure it out, my blade will be ground down to nothing. I have so many projects that I'm planning, and I really need to learn this.

[Leather Bum]

I believe Ace Hardware sells Smith's Honing oil (though I've not used it). I think I can understand the frustration of not knowing how to get a tool quite sharp enough, though. . .

L'Bum

[Hedge]

If your blade is sharp enough to shave hair, it should be plenty sharp enough to cut leather. So, I'm puzzled, too.

Don't know the quality of your steel, so here's something to check. After you try a few cuts in your leather,

have a look at the edge through a maginfier. Is the edge rolled or dull? If so, the steel is too soft and won't hold an edge.

[Rawhide]

Can I use machine oil in place of honing oil? Where can I get plain old honing oil? Hardware store?

One of these times, I'll figure out how to get my head knife sharpened good. I can only get it "kinda" good, and that's not good enough! Can't cut smaller curves with a dull head knife.

I hold the head knife at about a 20 degree angle (I looked at my protractor, so I have a good idea of the angle), and do circles into the blade till I feel a burr all along the edge. I flip it over and do the other side till I feel a burr. I'm using a fine Arkansas stone. I strop each edge several times using the same angle on a rouge coated leather strop. I go to cut my leather, and damn, it's not sharp! It cuts hairs off my arm, but it isn't sharp. What am I doing wrong???? By the time I figure it out, my blade will be ground down to nothing. I have so many projects that I'm planning, and I really need to learn this.

hilly, i get honing oil from a woodworker supply store, namely woodcraft, but I'm sure any will do.

If your knife is cutting hairs, its sharp. The only thing I can think of is it's not polished to a mirror finish on the cutting edge. If this is the case it's going to gran the leather. Also, are you cutting on a cutting board or poundo/rubber piece?

Marlon

[deadringer]

G'day Hilly,

You may just need to strop your blade more than what you have been so you get a good polished edge.

Cheers

Chris

[Hilly]

hilly, i get honing oil from a woodworker supply store, namely woodcraft, but I'm sure any will do.

If your knife is cutting hairs, its sharp. The only thing I can think of is it's not polished to a mirror finish on the cutting edge. If this is the case it's going to gran the leather. Also, are you cutting on a cutting board or poundo/rubber piece?

Marlon

Marlon, I'm cutting on one of those white plastic cutting boards like I'd use in my kitchen. I'm going to try it again, but try stropping on 1000 and 2000 grit sandpaper before the rouge. I'll see if that makes any difference. I'm wondering too, if the edge isn't rolling on me. I'll try and dig up that magnifying glass that's hiding around here...

Either way, I'm not giving up. I'm gonna learn this if it takes me till I'm old and gray!

I wish I could watch someone who really knows how sharpen one, and then have them guide me in sharpening my own. A tutor would be so handy!

[electrathon]

I always use auto transmission fluid on my stone. It is high in detergent and will keep the stone clean.

I am far from a professional at sharpening but my guess is your angle is to shallow on your knife. If it is, you will make a very fine burr that will shave well, but when you go to cut it will fold over and your knife will be dull.

[Art]

Hi Hilly,

I know this may sound crazy, but quite often when learning to use the head knife folks grab it like they would a hammer or a kitchen knife. This is ok, however there will be a tendency to apply serious downward pressure to the knife, especially when trying to control the knife to follow a line. If you "palm" the knife you won't be able to put nearly as much pressure on the knife. My first head knife was an old Newark C.S.Osborne and had a really big handle on it, I would call it huge by todays standards. I was trying to cut a line and having a terrible time until I realized I was cutting about 1/8" into the cutting board. Now I "palm" most of my head knives and push them through the leather. If you cut into the cutting surface and try to turn a curve, you will fight against the board and possibly snap a tip off, especially on the newer really thin blades.

For honing oil, some from big name companies are 100% light naphthenic base oil, more often called mineral oil, which is sewing machine oil or hydraulic fluid, the latter having a few extra detergents which can only help to keep any filings suspended in the oil. I have seen it thinned when required with kerosene. Light machine oil would fit somewhere in that category.

Art

[BarryKing]

Try using Ronsonol lighter fluid on the stone. I have been using it for about 15 years. Tends to leave the grain on the stone open and will cut better(the steel). You'll need to wipe it off a little more often and keep adding fluid, but it works great. Sounds like you need reduce the angle. I sharpen at about 5 degrees, very flat. This will ruduce the sharp hump you get from the steeper angle, tends to glide through the leather better. Also, strop the heck out of it as soon as the burr falls of when sharpening on the stone. Use a white chrome rouge, green rouge, or others are available. White tends to stick better to a piece of leather because it has more grease in it. you may also use valve grinding compound, available at NAPA or Carquest stores, get a fine grit(500 or 600).

I use a ceramic stone from Spyderco, but the stone you are using is fine. Don't worry about using the fine stone(white), use the medium then strop the knife. You should be able to get a lot of use out of the knife, if it is a good one, just by stropping it.

I also use UHMW for a cutting board. This is usually the stuff you find for kitchen cutting boards. Pretty easy on the edge.

Good luck.

[tazzmann]

I guess I am the oddball once again as I don't ever use honing oil. I learned from a knife sharpener from a long time ago how to sharpen knives without honing oil and it has never failed me. His reason for not using honing oil? When sharpening knives on a stone, part of the stone comes off and gets suspended in the oil, this acts as an abrasive working against the knife edge. This puts small scratches in the cutting edge which works against giving the edge a nice smooth finish and thus a true razor's edge. If you keep your stone clean and clean it often with a brush while you are sharpening, you will never need oil. I can get knives to a razor sharp edge without ever touching a bottle of oil.

Also check out the book The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening by John Juranitch for more on sharpening without oil.

Here are some quotes from his book:

"Now this may come as a shock to you, and some of you may even want to make sure you're sitting down for this one. But if you use oil in sharpening, it will:

Number one -- cost you money. Number two -- make a mess. Number three -- give you an inferior edge."

"....We encountered a problem with using oil when we first started demonstrating at sports shows around the country. How do you sharpen all those knives with all that oil? Heck, we could drown in oil! So rather than use oil we just kept our hones clean as best we could, and thought we could always switch to a new hone when the dirty one quit working. But guess what. The hones just kept going ... and kept going ... and kept going. Both the coarse and fine. And then we noticed something else. Our edges seemed to be better than when we were using oil..."

"... The question is why did the edges deteriorate so quickly when we used oil? The answer is this. The grit that has been worn from the hone becomes suspended in the oil with the metal filings from the blade, and you get a grinding compound, similar to the stuff used to grind the valves on your car. Running your knife through this compound is like running it through a pile of sand..."

"... After our experience in that packing plant with oil (where oil sharpened blades did not last as long - dg) we went into further study on the subject. We used electron microscopes with magnification of up to 10,000 power, and you could easily see the difference between the wet and dry edges. The edges that had been sharpened in oil had small chips knocked out of the cutting edge; the dry-sharpened blades did not..."

[tonyc1]

I keep all my oil stones in an icecream container full of diesel. When I put them back in after use I put them in on their side and the rubbish seems to drop off and when I take them out to use again they are clean. I never ever put my water stones in diesel though, just use good old spit!

Tony.

[Todd]

I sharpen all my head knives by using a felt wheels on a 6 inch bench grinder. I apply 2 different types of jewelers rouge on the wheels and use these to polish my knives often, It works so well that the only time I revert to a stone is if I buy a used knife with a very poor edge.

Edited May 3, 2008 by Todd