HELP! Twisted pocket?

[nick]

Okay...I admit it. I need help. (Do nottell my wife) Here is the deal. I am making a small leather shoulder bag, kinda like a map case. It has one larger main pocket, and thena smaller front pocket. I cut out my pieces using a wooden pattern that I made and then cut the gussetts to size. I started with the small front pocket and sewed on the gussett...all was well, or so I thought. I then proceeded to sew the pocket with gusset to the main front part of the bag. Once again, all was well, or so I thought. When I had finished, I stepped back to look at my work, and much to my dissappointment, my small front pcket was crooked. Not just slightly tilted either, but CROOKED. I was very careful, or so I thought, to line everything up using a stitching wheel as my guide along with a metal T-square so that the lines were straight. What did I do wrong, and how can I remedy this without wasting this leather? Is it possible that I twisted or contorted the gussett? Perhaps I pulled too hard on the needles while sewing? I need some help. Here are a few pics so that you can see what I am taling about. Sorry if I seem frustrated, I guess I am. Thanks in advance.

[Luke Hatley]

Oh well........live and learn. it looks to me like your sewing holes were not as straight

as you thought they were. the bottom corners are not the same on both sides.

so lets try to straighten the pocket . re wet the gussett and twist it to where you think it should be.

that will probably work on this one.

[nick]

Yeah, I am still a beginner, so everything is a learning process. Is there a trick to gussets? Maybe some sage advice or technique that works for you? If I were to cut the stitching and remove the front panel and attempt to reattatch it, would that work? I am willing to try wetting the gusset as you suggested. Do I need to hold it in the straight position until dry, or just forcefully twist it? The way I laid out te stitching holes, which was obviously wrong, was to line one end of the gusset up with the top of one side of the pocket and then use the wheel stitch guide down the gusset, then down the pocket. I then punched th holes with my hole punch. So, what's the correct way? (LOL) I appreciate your suggestion.

[nick]

Okay... I tried wetting the gusset, and twisting/stretching it back into alignment. No luck. So, I decided to "de-construct" the whole thing and try to start over. I took some pictures so that you could get a fresh perspective on the "parts" and my poor alignment of the holes. I also took a picture of the larger main pocket that I had begun to stitch before I got any further. I also took a photo of where I used the stitching wheel before I have punched any more holes. So, I am all ears. Teach me, Master Yoda.

[Echo4V]

First let me say I'm also a novice leather worker so take my opinion with that in mind...

It looks to me like you suffer from the same afliction I do. Not knowing when to stop for the day. My projects start out great but if I don't tell myself "I'm only working on this for one hour" (or something like that) then I'll work on it till I lose my attention to details and I'll get poor results.

If you notice on the right hand side (as you're looking at the first picture) your stitch line is very straight with a nice sharp corner to it. Then as you follow the bottom stitch line to the left the distance from the bottom of the backing to the stitch line increases ( the stitch line is not level across the bottom) which is causing your pocket to "twist" towards the right. The left corner is nowhere near as sharp as the right corner was. You'll also notice going up the left hand stitch line that the distance between the edge and the stitch line decreases making the mouth of the pocket wider than the bottom and increasing the look of "twist" in the pocket because it makes the gullet stick out on that side.

Something that has worked for me for marking stitchlines out perfectly is to lay the leather down on a work surface ( peice of scrap board works for me) then I use a string tied to nails on the board as a guide to mark of the lines. This lets me look at where the lines will be before they are actually on the leather and I know they are straight and the corners are in the right place. I think that if you go back and mark a new stitch line on this one (start on the left side then do the bottom, you shouldn't have to redo the right side) you will be able to reuse a lot of the holes and fix the pocket.

It's times like these that I get creative...I would have just set a small flap to match the angle of the pocket and said it was designed for carry on the left hip. lol

David

[nick]

David,

You are so very right...on all accounts. I guess I was excited after cutting out the pieces and wanted to see the finished product before really taking the time to lay things out properly. Thanks for you comments and observations, it allows me to step back, take a deep breath, and look at things from a fresh perspective. After looking at the stitching holes, you are 100% spot on...they are crooked and I see it plain as day now. I will try the string method as you have suggested...great idea by the way. I got a laugh out of your "getting creative" idea and saying it was meant to carry on the left hip...I thought about that very same thing! On a side note, I am not crazy about punching holes in the leather for my stitching holes because the holes are so much bigger than the thread and it doesn't look that great. I have tried wheeling it and then punching holes with an awl, but I guess I am just not doing that correctly as it didn't turn out so great on a test piece either. I have a stitching pony but man was it hard to force the needles through the leather without stretching the holes out...so I figured I might as well just punch them out. Am I just being impatient? Too much coffee?

[AndyL1]

If I may add a little bit of advice, you guys need to invest in an adjustable stitch groover. Here is one from Tandy, and there are better ones out there for sure. http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/store/p...ts/8069-00.aspx

This helps get your holes a perfect distance from the edge of the leather and consistent all the way around. I use it all the time for my stuff. Plus I can do double rows at perfectly even, parallel spacing.

Cheers,

Andy

Edited May 7, 2009 by AndyL1

[strapt]

Gotta agree with AndyL1 on this one. a stitch groover will help considerably.

As for knocking the holes in the piece, I've done this a couple different ways: from using one of those sewing awls, to punching them in with a home-made tool. (a nail glued into a piece of dowel. Flat on the top so I can bang on it with my hammer)

Then I had a conversation with my local tandy mgr, who was very helpful btw.

She recommended this thing:http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/image.aspx%2fmedia%2fimages%2fproduct%2f3008-00-L.JPG-105x105

you have to buy the set to get the smallest size bit. They don't sell the smallest one individually. I used it on my latest project, a cartridge case for some rev war guys, and it worked like a charm. The holes line up great b/c the chisel has 3 prongs, so you just overlap one of the holes and always get perfect spacing. They were also small enough to make the thread look decent. I don't think I'll do it any other way from here on out. This was a great solution and cut hours off stitching it with my old method.

My only gripe was not having an overstitch wheel with proper spacing to make those stitches all lay down nice and uniform. But they still looked pretty good. (maybe someday I'll get the camera and post some pics of the thing)

Hope this helps. Best of luck with your project.

[kevinhopkins]

Another thing you might want to consider is really good glue. If you have things glued in place well, you won't have the twist issue.

Your typical barge and masters will do well if you use them correctly.

Kevin Hopkins

[bruce johnson]

When I make up a pocket or anything with a gusset, I make registration marks first. I match the front and back and make little hash marks on both especially at the corners. I then will test fit the gusset to one or the other and hold it in place with binder clips. Transfer the hash marks to the edge of the gusset. Remove the gusset, fold the gusset at each hash mark and transfer to the opposite side. Apply the glue and when tacked up, align everything using the hash marks. It sounds more complicated than it is.

I have twisted my fair share of pockets and zippered planners and it is because the front and back aren't lined up and the gusset is longer on the face vs. the back. Prepunching holes before fitting makes it harder to my mind. I'd line it all up, glue it and then punch or just go to sewing with an awl.

[leatherjunkie]

one thing that i do when doing this type of pouch that no one has mentioned yet(which surprises me).

i will use the stitching groover on the flesh side of your gusset and groove a line down each long side 3/16" - 1/4" in from the edge.

i will run the groover more than once down the lines untill i am almost half way through the leather.

after this is done then i wet the gusset and bend the leather from the grooved line to the edge into a 90 degree angle.

bend it so the grain side looks like u shape.

then you just glue the gusset to the pocket, working around the pocket about 1" at a time.

i also use barge cement for my glue.

my pouch looks straight doing this method.

Edited May 8, 2009 by leatherjunkie

[Echo4V]

I can't speak for nick but personally, I have the tools mentioned. I have recently purchased some barge glue but haven't had a chance to use it yet. My problem is I just get in a hurry and even if my holes are evenly spaced I still end up with crooked lines so I have to conciously make myself slow down and quit for the day before I get tired.

Thanks for the advice

David

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Couple of words here. First, Bruce has given good advice. The way he does it is also how I do it. The only difference is that sometimes on a project that is very long, I will actually tie it off with a piece of thread at the "register hash marks" to keep it together and aligned while stitching, I don't pre punch my holes for the stiching, I simply put in my stiching groove, and mark it with a stitching wheel and then stitch. Second, I keep reading about impatience. Slow down, pay attention to the details. Patience is an art form, it takes a long time to get there and by the time you do, your are old!

Bondo Bob

[TwinOaks]

There's a comment here that just jumps up and down needing to be adressed:

The statement is "I have a stitching pony but man was it hard to force the needles through the leather without stretching the holes out..."

You shouldn't be forcing the needles through. You should be piercing with an awl first, then following with the needle. The trick to using the awl is to create an index on it (thanks to the OP of this idea). Set the blade at an angle you want to use, then mark where your thumb is. Now shave/file/rasp off that spot so that your thumb is in the same spot every time. Use a consistant angle for penetration -- 90 degrees-- (like straight through, not skewed off). Do a little reading on the subject of awls, it's important to know the basics.

Now, if your awl is stretching the leather instead of just sliding through, it needs to be sharpened....properly. Your awl should be sharp enough that after piercing the leather, it should get about halfway into your finger before you realize it. Seriously. No, I don't mean you should stab your finger repeatedly to see when it's sharp enough, but it needs to be "scary sharp". The type of awl blade you have will make a HUGE difference. The general consensus is that Bob Douglas' awl blades are the best. Period. The awl set from tandy is 'Ok' for lacing projects, but drastically over sized for stitching.

See this thread: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?s...awl+blade\ post #8

Edited May 8, 2009 by TwinOaks

[nick]

First, I just want to say thanks for all of the suggestions and advice...you people really are top notch!

Second, I do not own any of the tools suggested, but I will be ordering them from Tandy this week hopefully. The nearest store is 2 hours away. The trick to having the tools is knowing how to use them properly, and I have no one here to show me. So, I will be doing some research and probably asking all of you questions...if that is ok. As for the glue, I do have Barge cement, but it seems to be a little messy (at least for me) and I wind up getting it where it isn't wanted. Again, it is probably just me being impatient and in a hurry...gotta work on that. Bruce, I like the registratiion mark idea, but I am not sure I follow exactly how to do it. I re-read your post a couple of times and I think I understand the idea, just not sure how to execute it properly. Perhaps I will try it out on some scrap pieces. BondoBob, you mentioned that you don't pre-punch your holes for stitching. What type of needles do you use and where can I purchase them? I have had some luck using the "S" curved needles from Tandy, but they seem to make rather large holes and sometimes cut through a stitch. Twin Oaks, the awl that I have is not a professional quality awl. It is round, not four sided, if that makes a difference? I realize that I need to go ahead and spend the money to invest in a high quality model as you have suggested. I will look in to the Bob Douglas blades and hopefully, with some practice, be able to achieve some sort of consistent results.

Lastly, here is a picture of the corrected pocket. It turned out much better this time and I am much happier with it. No, it's not perfect, but better. Now, I just need to figure out this whole "burnishing" thing...lol

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Nick,

First I must appologize, I did not realize that you did not have what you needed, (tools and so forth). There is a book that you can get from Tandy that is called "The Art of Hand Sewing" written by Al Stohlman. It is inexpensive and tells you everything you need to know about not just stitching, the use of an awl (which I do use), but; also types of stitches, how to's on tools, sharpening and much much more. I suggest you make it the first "tool" you get. I think it is around $9 or so. If you read it and follow the advice in it, it will make you a pro.

Bondo Bob

[leatherjunkie]

I second the book the art of hand sewing. its a great book.

also it has a pattern in the back for making a stitching horse.

another good book is leather tools at tandy leather.

it explains a lot on what tools do what how to sharpen and other stuff.

another great set of books i highly recommend is the art of making leather cases by al stohlman.

this is a 3 book set. well worth the money for the information contained in these books

[TwinOaks]

Though it isn't a Douglas or Peter Main awl, I've had pretty good success with the Osborne awl that Tandy sells. It's not bad the way it comes, but like all tools, it needs a little tweaking. When I broke my mine, I bought another, then took the first and reground the blade to have a 'stubby' awl. A little heat and the glue holding the blade in the shaft loosens up nicely. Being shorter, I've been able to significantly reduce its profile. Anyway, for the price of a Douglas, you can purchase several Osbornes to practice with, and they're pretty good quality.

[nick]

So, I finally had some time to work on the "problem" piece. I think overall, it did't turn out half bad. I learned a lot with this one and I appreciate everyones suggestions and advice. I did manage to use an Osborne awl, sharpened to a ridiculous point, on the stitching that holds the back flap on. This will obviously take a great deal of practice and patience on my part. I have to ask a rookie question though. After I stabbed the holes with the awl, I attempted to stitch with two needles. Well, I must say that the awl produces a smaller hole than the punch, and it was VERY difficult to place both needles through one hole at the same time. Am I overlooking something? I still have not been to Tandy to get the books yet and I am guessing that they will shed some light on my problem. Regardless, I am pleased with the final product and as I stated earlier, I have learned a lot.

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Nice job considering you did it without the "proper tools". That's akin to working on a car with a pair of pliers and a hammer! The book will make life a lot easier, and your product much more pleasing to your eyes. Call your store and ask for them to send you the book and put it on your charge. That is the real place to start. You will be glad you did.

Bondo Bob