New Owb Prototype

[DHopper]

Just finished up my new OWB prototype. Black base, tan ostrich leg, & white stitching. I see a few corrections I'll be making on future ones, but ...

what do you guys think?

[katsass]

Just finished up my new OWB prototype. Black base, tan ostrich leg, & white stitching. I see a few corrections I'll be making on future ones, but ...

what do you guys think?

From the grump: Looks good to me -- but why the 'wings' on the toe of an OWB? IMO it would look more trim without them, and I don't think they serve the same purpose as in an IWB. Mike

Edited August 14, 2012 by katsass

[DHopper]

Hey Mike. Thanks for the response! And that's a very good question!

My basic theory behind the "Wingman" design is stability and comfort. I initially come up with this for the IWB holsters to help form fit the holster to the users body. The sides are designed with a wrap around effect to help fit better and the lower wings help distribute weight while wearing for long periods of time.

I wanted to test that same theory on an OWB really for some of the same reasons. With most OWB holsters there is no added support at the bottom. The wings again help form around the users body to help stabilize the rig and also gives a bit of weight support. I'm still be testing the OWB for a few weeks, but it seems to work so far. Here's a pic to give you an idea of how it wears at the 4:00 position. Notice how the wings form around the hip.

[Madadh]

Looks good and I like the explanation of the wings.

[katsass]

From the grump: I see your point, and think it may have merrit, but, you might do some rock climbing and deep squating as part of your tests. Let us know how it works out. Mike.

[SooperJake]

Even if the wings had no actual benefit, I'd recognize your holster in a second. Nothing quite like, it shape-wise, I've ever seen.

Great workmanship, too!

Jake

[Steven Kelley]

I like it. Whether the wings add function or not is debatable, but honestly, if you like it and your customers like it, that's all that matters. I make something similar. It's kind of my version of Lou Alessi's original design. I believe he was the first one to make an OWB holster that attached to the belt via snap loops. So everyone after him kind of used his original design and altered it to their tastes. Here is my version. Your stitching looks good. I can't really see the edges very well, so I can't comment on them, but the overall construction looks good. You'll get better with each holster you make. If you are going to sell them, don't take any shortcuts. Make sure you exceed your customer's expectation in quality and performance, and you'll have lots of repeat orders.

[DHopper]

Thank you guys very much for the feedback. It's great to have top notch craftsmen out there willing to help out the rookies. And without much grief! I really appreciate it.

Grump ... I'll throw in some trail hiking into the outdoor trials. A few hours climbing around the sticks and hills should give me some good ideas.

Thx Jake. It's hard to reinvent the wheel after so many great makers out there have been doing it for decades. Just was trying to find my style and hopefully some functionality in the design. As an IWB, I know the design works. Whether it adds to the IWB is still in the air, but seems like it may; at least a little.

Wingman IWBs:

Thank you, too Steven. It's an honor to hear from you. I've admired your work for quite some time. I can't imagine getting as busy as you are at it. Lots of great things to be heard about your holsters!

It was your double buckled owb that I first looked at when I bought my first 1911. It just seemed to be such a good idea to distribute weight on an OWB just like you do IWB. It wasn't until much later that I saw Mr. Alessi's work. That double buckle idea inspired mine for sure. But I needed to add something(not that it's needed). I wanted to make sure I wasn't just making your holster or myself. I figure if I'm gonna take the time to do this then I should get as creative as I can and just have fun with it.

My edges? They still suck, honestly! Definitely my weakest link. I finally made myself a crude burnishing wheel, but it needs much improvement. I need more than one slot with different size grooves. Hopefully I'll keep improving that technique and break down soon and just buy a proper set-up for it. If I keep going long term with this; that's the first big change that needs to come. That and a sewing machine. Hand stitching is just too dang time consuming for me. And those hand cramps are a bi@tch!!

Once again, thx all. Keep those pointers coming.

[Steven Kelley]

Dave,

Your hand stitching looks great. I thought you had a machine. If I had to hand stitch, I would not be making holsters any more. You can save a TON of time with a machine. Once you get a volume of holsters, it's a good investment. As far as edges, there are lots of ways to get a good edge. Hidepounder has a great tutorial about edges. I believe it's a sticky at the top of this forum. I've found a way that works for me and my process. It's quick and the edges turn out very nice. I have a burnishing tool that mounts in a drill press. It has several sizes of grooves and works great. I bought it from "Spinner" who posts on this site. I would highly recommend you getting at least one of his burnishing tools. I also have felt wheels that mount in my drill press. They are about 1" in diameter and are hard felt. I bought them off ebay. Basically my edge process is this...............................

1. Once the holster is glued together, but before stitching, I run the edges along an oscillating spindle sander to smooth. Then, profile the edges with a hand edger. After this point I stitch.

2. When I soak the holster in water to form, the first thing I do once it comes out of the water is quickly run the edges through the burnisher on my drill press. This is not to burnish the edges, but to give them a nice round shape. An edges makes kind of square edges, so running the edges through the burnisher when soaking wet will form them to a round profile. The trick is to not "burnish" them, but just round them. Practice is needed here.

3. After forming, dying, and applying acrylic, I'm ready to burnish. Using a mix of parafin and bees wax, and the felt wheel, I burnish the wax into the edges. It's usually pretty quick work. Just have to make sure the edges are even and sanded really smooth. The wax gets very hot and at times I can see smoke coming off the edge. Again, practice makes perfect. You want to get just enough wax on the edge, and get is just hot enough to smooth it and drive the wax into the edge. With some practice, you can make some nice edges, and not spend too much time doing it.

Again, there are lots of ways to do edges. I would highly recommend reading Hidepounder's tutorial. His edges are the best. Just don't think there's only one way to do it, because each one of us does it differently and we all come out with fine edges.

Feel free to pm me if you have any more questions.

[DHopper]

Thanks much, Steven. Taking time to help out show some real character. Very nice.

I'll look into one of those wheels from Spinner. I'm kicking myself now for getting rid of my lathe a while back. I've needed it numerous times since after it say quiet for almost a year. Go figure!! LoL. I'll check eBay for the felt, too. I've tried to google that thick pure wool felt but I didn't see it. I'll try to get a routine set that will also help get those edges much more uniform holster to holster. I've been able to get them super smooth, but they don't really seem finished until you get the rounded edge and a really good wax job.

I'll see where I can go with this over the weekend. I know I'll need a lot more practice than that, but maybe I can make a little improvement after you help.

Take care.

[Steven Kelley]

Thanks much, Steven. Taking time to help out show some real character. Very nice.

I'll look into one of those wheels from Spinner. I'm kicking myself now for getting rid of my lathe a while back. I've needed it numerous times since after it say quiet for almost a year. Go figure!! LoL. I'll check eBay for the felt, too. I've tried to google that thick pure wool felt but I didn't see it. I'll try to get a routine set that will also help get those edges much more uniform holster to holster. I've been able to get them super smooth, but they don't really seem finished until you get the rounded edge and a really good wax job.

I'll see where I can go with this over the weekend. I know I'll need a lot more practice than that, but maybe I can make a little improvement after you help.

Take care.

Here's a link to the felt "bobs" that I use...... http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Felt-Hard-Cylinder-Polishing-Buffing-Bobs-1-dia-x-1-long-x-1-4-steel-shank-/370633634743?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564b7c73b7

They work very well and last a long time. You'll want one for each color of holster, as some of the dye transfers to the felt during burnishing.

[katsass]

Thanks much, Steven. Taking time to help out show some real character. Very nice.

I'll look into one of those wheels from Spinner. I'm kicking myself now for getting rid of my lathe a while back. I've needed it numerous times since after it say quiet for almost a year. Go figure!! LoL. I'll check eBay for the felt, too. I've tried to google that thick pure wool felt but I didn't see it. I'll try to get a routine set that will also help get those edges much more uniform holster to holster. I've been able to get them super smooth, but they don't really seem finished until you get the rounded edge and a really good wax job.

I'll see where I can go with this over the weekend. I know I'll need a lot more practice than that, but maybe I can make a little improvement after you help.

Take care.

Dave, from the grump: I use a home-made wheel for waxing. Made from a 3/8" stove bolt and a strip of denim from an old pair of Levi's. I used contact cement to adhere the cloth to the bolt - just watch the direction that you wind it on. I use a 3/8" variable speed hand drill set horizontally in a vice so that I can see both sides of my work while standing. To me it's easier than working with the tool vertical. I use my burnishing wheel in the same rig - for the same reason. Mike

P.S. I also use a touch of glycerine soap (Neutrogena) when doing my initial burnish - for me it work better than any other stuff I have tried.

Edited August 15, 2012 by katsass

[Bronson]

For an OWB concealed carry holster I would be worried that the wings could be another thing to snag clothing on.

Bronson

[DHopper]

Hi Bronson. I can see where that would be a concern. However, the holster really seems to hug pretty timely to the body while standing, walking, etc.. Now of course, there would be difficulty in fully concealing in lots of situations; but no more of an issue than any other OWB carrying a full size 1911. I can say that this design was not necessarily meant for full cc, but IMO would hide as well if not better than most OWBs out there. And it looks cool!

Thx again, Steven and Grump! Great help!! I do have a question for you ... what are you both using as a top coat finish? I see some use oils, waxes, or even sprays. Resolene, mink oil, sno-seal, car wax, etc. etc. etc. I'm getting a bit over saturated with choices. I like what the mink oil does to and for the leather, but the maintenance down the road is more than some customers want to deal with. Is there a good combo or something different you're using?

[Steven Kelley]

Thx again, Steven and Grump! Great help!! I do have a question for you ... what are you both using as a top coat finish? I see some use oils, waxes, or even sprays. Resolene, mink oil, sno-seal, car wax, etc. etc. etc. I'm getting a bit over saturated with choices. I like what the mink oil does to and for the leather, but the maintenance down the road is more than some customers want to deal with. Is there a good combo or something different you're using?

When finishing a holster, I use a light coat of neetsfoot oil (allow to fully dry), then an acrylic sealer (such as resolene, Angelus 600, or 50/50 mix of mop n glow and water). Allow the acrylic to fully dry. Next I apply a coat of wax and buff. The neetsfoot oil will add some of the moisture and oils back into the leather that were removed during forming and drying. That is the only oil I would recommend putting on the leather, and only use a light coat. Any oils that are designed to keep leather soft are not the best to use on a tight molded leather holster, as they could soften it too much and you lose your molding and retention.

Again, there are lots of different things makers do here, and this is just my method.

[DHopper]

Oh, ok! I was a little confused that you could put in the acrylic after the neats foot. That really helps!

Here's one I'm finishing up this am. The edging is getting much better IMO. Not perfect, but better.

[katsass]

Dave, I build most all of my stuff from two layers of leather - to provide a smooth interior and (as Dwight found out) a much higher rigidity in the finished product. I finish with a 50/50 mix of Mop & Glow and water - two light coats that penetrate, then follow with Kiwi neutral polish and buff. This after a good shot of pure neatsfoot oil. I live in an area of the desert that gets around 7 to 9 inches of moisture on average (rain and snow - such as it is) per year, so we don't worry too much about moisture problems with our leather - just the opposite. We need to keep it conditioned. Mike

P.S. When burnishing, I just moisten the edge with a damp sponge and hit it on the burnisher, then wet a finger with water and rub it over a bar of Neutrogena bar soap (glycerine soap) and just rub that into the edge a little - it doesn't take much. Now have a go on the burnisher. It seems to do things so much nicer, and (if you then dye the edge) the dye takes well and also takes any finish, including Mop & Glow. Mike

Edited August 16, 2012 by katsass

[dickf]

Hi Dave,

I think the other folks pretty much nailed it with regards to those bottom wings on an OWB holster. It's too much material, and if these are primarily for concealment, they will not help with that aspect. The holster should be stabilized by it's attachment points on the belt. This is what prevents it from rocking back and forth and what helps keep the butt of the gun tucked in nice and tight. I think you've come a long way in a short time.

The credit for that design goes to the late Bruce Nelson and his Patriot holster. It was groundbreaking for it's time, and lots of modifications have been made by various makers to improve on it's design.

Here's a photo of one (not mine)

Anyway, keep at it - your stitching looks great!

Chris