Cylinder Arm Machines

[Coluber42]

Okay, I don't actually sew leather very often, but I'm looking for a (preferably used/cheap) cylinder arm machine and this forum keeps popping up with good info when I google various models. I need it to make padded instrument cases, which are made of nylon with closed-cell foam padding, and I need to be able to bind the edges with it as well as assemble the padded cases. The most important considerations are that the needle needs to come as close to the end of the cylinder as possible; I need to be able to use a binder attachment; and the minimum needle size can't be much bigger than 16. I don't need reverse. The nylon I use isn't especially heavy or difficult to sew through, but it's not particularly fragile either. I've called a few sewing machine dealers, but all they want to tell me is why I need to buy a new machine from them, and not a used one (even if they deal in used ones). The reasons they give me are not especially convincing ("You'll have an older piece of equipment" or "You'll have to oil it manually"). I could maybe cough up for a new machine, but I need a better reason than that.

I'm not a sewing machine mechanic, but I'm generally mechanically inclined/interested and I don't mind taking on a bit of a project in order to save some money. But on the other hand, I don't really want to take on a project that's going to take six months of trial and error and scrounging for spare parts before I (hopefully) have a working machine, and I figure there's no way to know how much of a project something's going to end up being if it doesn't already run.

So do y'all have any recommendations, either for dealers, models, things to avoid, etc? Sorry if you get tons of questions just like this... TIA!

[coryleif]

Hi,

I would think a Consew 227R would probably do the trick. You often see them used: http://www.ebay.com/...=item2c633faeed

Also, not as common, but nice: Juki 341:

I would steer clear of used Pfaffs (eg the 335), as parts are mega $$.

Good luck in your search!

[c]

[Wizcrafts]

If you don't care about reverse, a Singer 153w102 (or 103, or 104) walking foot machine should be good enough for your humble requirements.

There is a discussion about this model on our forum, in this post.

Expect to pay about $500 to $600, for a complete Singer 153, with clutch motor and table, thread stand, bobbin winder and flex-lamp. You may even find one that has been converted to use a servo motor, like the SewPro 500GR, with a knob on the back to limit its top speed.

Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines has them for sale (866-362-7397).

As a reference, a brand new medium duty cylinder arm machine, similar to the Singer 153, but with reverse and a modern mechanism, sells for about $1600.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Wizcrafts

[Coluber42]

Thanks for the info... I'm currently going back and forth between either an old Singer or a new Techsew with the oscillating binder, since binding edges is a big part of what I need it to do. Needless to say, that makes it a pretty huge price difference.

I suppose my real question is, what are the real advantages of a new machine over an old one? As far as I can tell, in terms of features it's reverse, oscillating binder (which adds substantially to the price if I decide to go for it), and self-oiling. The other potential disadvantage of an older machine is that it's more likely to need repair or replacement parts. It doesn't seem like it should be difficult to find them for a Singer 153w, and it doesn't seem hard to find bobbins, needles, attachments, etc, for one either. Am I missing anything?

If you don't care about reverse, a Singer 153w102 (or 103, or 104) walking foot machine should be good enough for your humble requirements.

There is a discussion about this model on our forum, in this post.

Expect to pay about $500 to $600, for a complete Singer 153, with clutch motor and table, thread stand, bobbin winder and flex-lamp. You may even find one that has been converted to use a servo motor, like the SewPro 500GR, with a knob on the back to limit its top speed.

Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines has them for sale (866-362-7397).

As a reference, a brand new medium duty cylinder arm machine, similar to the Singer 153, but with reverse and a modern mechanism, sells for about $1600.

[Wizcrafts]

Thanks for the info... I'm currently going back and forth between either an old Singer or a new Techsew with the oscillating binder, since binding edges is a big part of what I need it to do. Needless to say, that makes it a pretty huge price difference.

I suppose my real question is, what are the real advantages of a new machine over an old one? As far as I can tell, in terms of features it's reverse, oscillating binder (which adds substantially to the price if I decide to go for it), and self-oiling. The other potential disadvantage of an older machine is that it's more likely to need repair or replacement parts. It doesn't seem like it should be difficult to find them for a Singer 153w, and it doesn't seem hard to find bobbins, needles, attachments, etc, for one either. Am I missing anything?

If you can afford to buy a new machine, from one of our dealers, do so. When you encounter problems just pick up the phone and call the dealer. If you need help you will get it. If you need accessories they will have them. Many dealers give package deals on the initial purchase. You can load up on bobbins, needles, different presser feet and a binder in the size you require.

Finally, if something really goes wrong, you can send the head back for servicing, or receive replacement parts and instructions for installing them yourself.

One-stop shopping beats chasing parts down on the interwebs.

Finally, the new machines are very well built.

[mmike956]

I'm a new one here and I have a few industrial machines I haven't exactly mastered yet but enjoy experimenting with. I have a 153w102 and a 154w101 two needle model along with a 31-15 and 31-20. I take pleasure in the mechanical design as much as I do the work they can produce. My granddaddy was a service rep for Singer in Atlanta thus the interest here. I wish I could've been exposed to the machines earlier in life so I could have gleaned all of granddaddy's technical advice. Sadly he's been gone for some time now and I'm 59 and poorly equipped to use the machines he left me. I think I take more pleasure in making the machines work right more than making them produce the useful items they were designed for. I can make a cell phone case or a tool bag or even a bikini for a friend or two but the bottom line is that I enjoy the mechanics of it all more than the production. I'll get some pictures up here soon.

[Ray100]

Hi what is the thickes thread the 227 or the 153 can handle and the stitch lenght on them aNd also the max leather thickness it can sew thanks in advance for the info

[Constabulary]

I'm a new one here and I have a few industrial machines I haven't exactly mastered yet but enjoy experimenting with. I have a 153w102 and a 154w101 two needle model along with a 31-15 and 31-20. I take pleasure in the mechanical design as much as I do the work they can produce. My granddaddy was a service rep for Singer in Atlanta thus the interest here. I wish I could've been exposed to the machines earlier in life so I could have gleaned all of granddaddy's technical advice. Sadly he's been gone for some time now and I'm 59 and poorly equipped to use the machines he left me. I think I take more pleasure in making the machines work right more than making them produce the useful items they were designed for. I can make a cell phone case or a tool bag or even a bikini for a friend or two but the bottom line is that I enjoy the mechanics of it all more than the production. I'll get some pictures up here soon.

I really like that! It´s sad the a lot of knowledge about old sewing machines is gone but there are still some folks that keep the flag waving

For me its a pleasure to keep these old workhorses alive. One comes after another - maybe one day when you have setup the machines you will have fun producing some useful things with them

If you don´t mind I´d like to see some pictures of the machines you have.

[Constabulary]

Hi what is the thickes thread the 227 or the 153 can handle and the stitch lenght on them aNd also the max leather thickness it can sew thanks in advance for the info

usually 138 thread but some are setup to run 207 - just try it. I think the older types have a 5 SPI and the later models may have 4 SPI or even longer. Same with the max thickens - usually 8-10mm max. but later types may have more foot lift. There are too many models and clones and you cannot know the specs from all of them.

[mmike956]

I'll get some pictures posted asap. The 31-15 is on an old chopping block style table and the 31-20 is on the traditional green linoleum K leg stand. Both with clutch motors, the 31-15 powered by the old style open clutch and the 31-20 sports a new Singer clutch motor. I'm currently building two tables for the 153 and 154. I'm not certain whether to go with a servo motor for them or not. I'm open to suggestions.

[dikman]

mmike, if you intend using them for sewing leather then a servo motor is really the only way to go. I have experimented with pulley speed reducers (with clutch motors) on two Singers and a Pfaff 335 and while I could slow them down considerably I just didn't feel that I had the slow speed control I was looking for. A servo gave me that control.

Coluber42, I recently bought a used Pfaff 335 that was fitted out as an edge binder. It's a really nice machine and punches through 1/4" leather with no trouble, but it's cost me just over Au$100 to get the feet and feed dog to convert it to "normal" stitching - and these were generic parts, I've been told not to even consider Pfaff parts ($$$)! As long as I don't break anything it'll be a great machine.

If you want to do both binding and straight sewing you'll be forever swapping the bits back and forth. It's probably not what you want to hear, but eventually you will need a machine set up for each function if you intend to do a fair bit of work.

[Uwe]

If your "new" machine is a clone of an old design, the spare parts problem is exactly the same. The modern day clone makers don't generally make or stock parts, but expect you to rely on the OEM parts supply channels. A few aftermarket makers (e.g Kwok Hing) produce a limited selection of parts like needle bars, etc. Some models are well supplied with aftermarket parts. Check resellers with a good online presence like College Sewing in the UK see if parts exist for the machine you're considering. If they don't carry it, you're likely out of luck elsewhere as well. The local LW vendor may carry or be able to source parts, but some of their websites haven't quite made the transition into this century yet.

As far as "expensive" parts go, an expensive but available part is infinitely more useful than any unavailable part no matter what the price would be.

Durkopp Adler appears to have a very robust spare parts organisation in place for their vintage machines. They also did not go through bankruptcy recently like Pfaff did. Nothing like a good bankruptcy and new owner to change your priorities as to what vintage models you're still interested in supporting.

Most industrial sewing machines were designed to work hard in a factory setting without breaking constantly. If you don't abuse your machine by trying to make it do things it wasn't designed to do, it will work for long time with routine maintenance.

Like a previous poster said, you'll likely end up with one (or more!) dedicated binder machines before too long, especially if you do this for a living or on a regular basis.

My advice would be to get a name brand machine (Singer/Pfaff/Juki/Durkopp Adler, etc.) or a well supported/respected clone in good condition, no more than two decades old, with design specs covering the needle and thread sizes and material thickness you plan to use. Whenever you use a machine outside its design specs, trouble is likely imminent. Quite often the design specs, especially for certain cylinder arm machines, are very narrow (e.g. Needle size 110Nm-140Nm, not much wiggle room there)

For binding operations you described with compound feed and synchronized, vibrating binders, the Pfaff 335 and Adler 69 class of machines are well supported, proven key players in that field, at least from what I can tell.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Uwe

[mmike956]

I'm in this as a hobby and a way to keep me occupied and entertained. I enjoy the mechanical challenge of making these old machines work. I'm not going into business with these Singers but certainly someone will benefit from my efforts to keep them alive. They currently reside in an unused upstairs catch all room. Since there are oak floors underneath the worn out carpet I plan to strip the floor and have a dedicated sewing room reminiscent of an old textile mill. Here are a few pictures to for you to see if I can figure out how to post them here. How do you post pictures here? I have photo bucket but it's been a while since I've used it.

[mmike956]

Here's the 153W102 and 154W101.

Edited October 13, 2015 by mmike956

[mmike956]

1942 31-15 silver with chopping block table with a couple of slats missing

1910 31-20. destined for the linoleum topped table.

Edited October 13, 2015 by mmike956

[mmike956]

Table progress. I'm working on three tables.

[mmike956]

Another top in progress.

[mmike956]

I made this table top then found an entire green industrial table for free at a local alteration shop.

[mmike956]

Here's another view of the 154W101. It's a two needle compound feed machine. I can't wait to get it mounted.

[mmike956]

The 153W102 looks just like the 154 except for the extra thread tensioner and longer cylinder arm. That rounded bed will be real handy!

[SARK9]

Those old tables clean up nice if the plywood is sound. A bit of new Formica works miracles.

-DC

[mmike956]

I know the machines in this picture set aren't cylinder arms but they are what I have here to share with you. There's also one more 31-20 at Dad's house that has the 31-15 bobbin conversion. I don't have a picture of it yet.

[mmike956]

Is there any demand for two needle cylinder bed machines such as the 154W101 Singer? I have one and would like to know how to best utilize it.

[TinkerTailor]

Is there any demand for two needle cylinder bed machines such as the 154W101 Singer? I have one and would like to know how to best utilize it.

Look at the seams on your jeans. Double seams are stronger as well as decorative. Ever seen leather pants sewn like jeans? I can see motorcycle guys going for it for seats and bags as contrast stitch as well.

Just off the top of my head.......oh, my hatband is double needle sewn....

[gottaknow]

We use them in the factory for lots of operations. The most common being topstitching cuffs and set on sleeve seams in oil cloth jackets. With a flat felling folder and a table adapter, you can join seams with it, though a flatbed or feed off the arm machine is more common for that. I keep a couple set up all the time it seems. When we made tactical gear, they were handy for duffle bags. Most jeans use a two or three needle chainstitch for flat felliing. A chainstitch stretches and gives with the jeans as the person moves.

Regards, Eric