My Second Holster Completed

[wizard of tragacanth]

Hi Guys,

I feel that I must post some of my work. I feel that I don't really know who I am talking to until I see some of their work. It's kind of like putting a face with a name. So, in a way of introducing myself, here are some pics of a Sig P229 holster that I just finished.

My first project was a paddle holster for my Kahr P380, then I made the mag pouch that you see here. After that, I found this forum and a whole new world opened up to me. I will be re-designing and making a new mag pouch for this set. Since this will be my primary carry gun, I will also be making some other hosters for it, of different designs.

Thanks to all of you who shared your knowledge and experience. My first holster was not too bad, but my second one is significantly better in every respect, ONLY due to the great people on this forum. Comments welcome.

Thanks. Nick

[TwinOaks]

IMO, the holster would benefit with a little more detail boning to aid in retention/security as the holster stretches a little with use. You've left plenty of room between the grip and the holster, which is a good thing, but I'm wondering if that back strap gets in the way of the grip. Are you able to get a full firing grip? If not, I think the solution would be to move the back strap out another inch or so, and you should be fine.

[wizard of tragacanth]

IMO, the holster would benefit with a little more detail boning to aid in retention/security as the holster stretches a little with use. You've left plenty of room between the grip and the holster, which is a good thing, but I'm wondering if that back strap gets in the way of the grip. Are you able to get a full firing grip? If not, I think the solution would be to move the back strap out another inch or so, and you should be fine.

I agree about the boning. What I did was pure hand-molding, complete with fingernail marks to show for it. Truthfully, I was afraid that I would mess up the boning and ruin the project, so I just didn't do it. I don't know how much boning can actually be done on 8oz. leather. Personally, I do not care for the extreme boning that is sometimes seen, where the holster looks like a replica of the gun, and I know that you are not suggesting that. I do agree that some boning would be an improvement.

I can get a full firing grip. The strap does not get in the way at all, however, the space nearest to the trigger guard is borderline tight for my second finger... not too tight, but a little more room would be better.

The stitching around the finger guard and under the barrel is too far away. I don't know why I did that. I made it nice and close in my first holster. I wasn't really thinking when I free-handed the stictch groover. I just made a flowing line without thinking about fit at all.

Since I molded the holster flat, when I put it on and the wings are pulled in, the gun is in there real tight. I don't know how this will work out over time.

My biggest complaint is that the straps creak like crazy. People would wonder what the heck is going on in there. I'm pretty sure it is the Satin Shene pieces rubbing together. If I am ever to wear this holster, I have to solve that problem. I wore it around the house a little bit today, thinking that it may "break in" but I didn't have it on that long and there was no difference that I could detect. I may try removing the Satin Shene in those areas and putting on some Neatfoot oil, unless someone else has a better solution.

I can't express how much I learned from this project. Even if it never works as a carry rig, it was worth the build for the lessons alone.

Nick

[Viking]

I can't express how much I learned from this project. Even if it never works as a carry rig, it was worth the build for the lessons alone.

Nick

I think it looks Great for a second holster - My second holster was far worse than my first because I tried to get "too" creative with too many "features". I especially like the different color belt loops - a nice touch. Your trial & error process will help you learn with each new holster. Just don't go too long in between projects, or you will lose a bit of the finer points...good job!

[wizard of tragacanth]

I think it looks Great for a second holster - My second holster was far worse than my first because I tried to get "too" creative with too many "features". I especially like the different color belt loops - a nice touch. Your trial & error process will help you learn with each new holster. Just don't go too long in between projects, or you will lose a bit of the finer points...good job!

Viking... thank you for your kind words. I think you are right that one should not try too many new tricks at one time, good advice.

This holster has several things that I feel very good about... much better edges, better stitching and I think it has some style to it (though that is a matter of personal taste). I'm glad to hear that you like the two-tone. I wondered how that would go over. Another thing is that this holster is super comfortable, but then it's a flat-back OWB, so why wouldn't it be.

I took this holster to the local Tandy to show it to a guy with whom I had consulted regarding a dye problem. I wanted to show him the final results. He said, "Your stitching looks real good. Did you do that on a machine?" I told him it was hand-stitched. He asked if I had taken his stitching class. I said no and asked if he thought that I should? He didn't really respond to that. He looked the holster over and again remarked about the stitching, as if I may have been telling him a fib. I told him I used an over-stitch wheel but I didn't mention the drill press!

There is a secret mistake on this holster. I originally designed it for the non-threaded, stock barrel. I sat in my car and found the correct height and angle of cant for the holster to ride in a good spot. Later, I changed to the threaded barrel, which is 9/16" longer. I made the holster longer to accomodate that but I did not change anything else. Now, it pushes on the bottom seat cushion when I am seated in the vehicle. Design flaw, for sure.

Now if I could tackle some boning and learn to keep my fingernail marks off of it... well, that would be a good goal for my next hoster.

Nick

[Viking]

@ WIzard -

Ha! I hand drill my holes for now, since I hand saddle-stitch. But I am thinking of getting a bench top drill press for my birthday for consistency's sake. I can't think of a faster or more cost effective way to make the stiching holes in 7/8 oz leather short of buying an expensive, stitching machine.

[wizard of tragacanth]

@ WIzard -

Ha! I hand drill my holes for now, since I hand saddle-stitch. But I am thinking of getting a bench top drill press for my birthday for consistency's sake. I can't think of a faster or more cost effective way to make the stiching holes in 7/8 oz leather short of buying an expensive, stitching machine.

Okay, here's a tip. I started my first project on the drill press with a 1/16" bit because I read a post where someone was using that size. The holes were so tight that I had to use pliers to pull the needle through. I went up to the next size... 5/64"... bingo, that was it. Hand stitching went so much faster. One drawback is that the 5/64" bit is larger than the stitch groove. It goes somewhat out over the edges of the groove. It doesn't look bad but it would look better if stayed completely within the groove. I will probably contine with the 5/64" bit because I get repetitive motion stress to my hand and forearm, so it is more important to avoid that, than to have perfect stitching. Most people would never notice the difference anyway. Maybe I can find a larger stitch groover.

Nick

[marine mp]

Nick, my suggestion would be to continue on w/the 1/16 drill bit and get a stitching awl (fid) to open the holes larger. Anymore, I just use the overstich wheel for hole placement and use the stitching awl to go thru the leather. As you are stitching (I do all by hand) you may find that you have to open the holes a little more as they tend to want to close up on you. Also, if you don't already have one....get a lap horse to hold the leather for a hands-free experience. $$$$ well spent. Enjoy---Semper-fi Mike

[wizard of tragacanth]

Mike,

Thanks for the tip, I may try it but I think that using an awl is going to be too much stress on my hand, wrist and arm.

[katsass]

Okay, here's a tip. I started my first project on the drill press with a 1/16" bit because I read a post where someone was using that size. The holes were so tight that I had to use pliers to pull the needle through. I went up to the next size... 5/64"... bingo, that was it. Hand stitching went so much faster. One drawback is that the 5/64" bit is larger than the stitch groove. It goes somewhat out over the edges of the groove. It doesn't look bad but it would look better if stayed completely within the groove. I will probably contine with the 5/64" bit because I get repetitive motion stress to my hand and forearm, so it is more important to avoid that, than to have perfect stitching. Most people would never notice the difference anyway. Maybe I can find a larger stitch groover.

Nick

FWIW from the grumpy old guy: Wizard, I totally agree with marine mp, Go to a smaller bit .... I began using a 3/64" sized one (still have it) Careful work with a dremel and it produced evenly spaced holes in the gouge, and, after a bit of practice, vertical ones. Remember, when the leather is folded you do not get a level surface upon which to drill, flat yes..not level. (make sense?) It'll almost always make the holes closer to the edge on the back side when using a drill press, unless you are very careful. Anyhoo, you can then follow with a good diamond awl to open them up. after a while, by following your overstitch, you'll find it easy enough to graduate to just the awl, provided it's a good one AND you keep it sharp. Also, IMO, if you can pull the needle thru the leather by hand, the holes are too damned big. I have hand stitched everything I do for damned near 50 years, I run the awl, stick a needle (size #1 with 7 cord waxed linen)) pull thru with smooth jawed pliers, pull back, stab the other side, pull thru with pliers, pull tight, On to the next. Does it take time? Damned right! But everything worth doing does. In time..it takes less time, but it ain't like running a stitching machine. Unless you are making large quantities, IMO, a stitcher ain't worth the bucks. If folks bitch about a time element for a completely hand made item ... to their specs, they can just go down the damned road. Anyhoo, for an example, here's a little holster I did some years ago, just the way I describe. Advice is 'take your time and do it carefully, you'll be more proud of a finely done piece when finished'. Mike

P.S. A GOOD sharp diamond shaped awl will slip right thru the 4 layers of 5/6 oz. veg tanned like this little guy with very little resistance. Trick is sharpen properly, and keep it sharp. I use an OLD Osborne with an 1/8" blade abot 1 1/2" in length. As with any physical problem, work at it...you'll find a way that works for you.

Edited September 11, 2011 by katsass

[wizard of tragacanth]

P.S. A GOOD sharp diamond shaped awl will slip right thru the 4 layers of 5/6 oz. veg tanned like this little guy with very little resistance.

Really, that is quite surprising. I may give it a shot but I'm not promising anything.

[katsass]

Really, that is quite surprising. I may give it a shot but I'm not promising anything.

Wizard, use the smaller drill: Sharpen the awl for only about 3/16" from the tip .... sharp enough to cut yourself!! Strop it a little on a strip of leather periodically, and use it to open the holes, keeping the angle correct. Take your time. As you get comfortable, you'll get quicker. As I said, I use a slender awl ... only about 1/8". It'll start to cut but will finally just push the leather out of the way and ultimately close back up over the thread, keeping it tight by friction. The holster shown is made from two layers of 5/6 oz, bonded together and used as a single thickness. I do almost all my holsters that way. Mike

[wizard of tragacanth]

Wizard, use the smaller drill: Sharpen the awl for only about 3/16" from the tip .... sharp enough to cut yourself!! Strop it a little on a strip of leather periodically, and use it to open the holes, keeping the angle correct. Take your time. As you get comfortable, you'll get quicker. As I said, I use a slender awl ... only about 1/8". It'll start to cut but will finally just push the leather out of the way and ultimately close back up over the thread, keeping it tight by friction. The holster shown is made from two layers of 5/6 oz, bonded together and used as a single thickness. I do almost all my holsters that way. Mike

I'm feeling sleepy... sleepy... I feel my resistance fading... slipping away... falling... okaaay Mike... whatever you say... I'll do it...

Oh, wow, I feel llike I just woke up... where was I, oh yeah, thanks Mike for helping me to achieve the high level of quality and appearnce that your holsters have and not allowing me to wallow in mediocrity. Seriously. Thanks for not giving up on me!

Nick

[Wareagle50]

Do all yall predrill your stitching holes?

[katsass]

Do all yall predrill your stitching holes?

Wareagle, If you were asking me, no, I don't anymore. I started learning stitching from an old WWI cavalry soldier, back when I was about 17 ..... he made me use an awl (of his) Later I found a Dremel tool and thought that the drill method would be quicker and easier. (At 17 I thought I was inventing something new, and was smarter than that old man) It does produce a decent looking stitch line if one is careful, but in time, I found that gouging, marking my stitches with an overstitch and using just a GOOD, SHARP awl is quicker, and it eliminates an unnecessary step. Of course that old man was right. But now, I guess that I are that old man. Age does change one's outlook. Mike