Problems With #14 Copper Rivets

[nycnycdesign]

Hey all,

I use #12 copper rivets daily in my work and always get freat results with the Douglas 3 piece setter. I decided ro try a smaller size and grabbed a box of both Osborne and Weaver #14's to test them out. Also picked up Bob's #14 setter.

Here where I ran into problems.

When setting the #14's into various thickness, whether it be 3oz veg or heavy harness, often times the burr will set and then slip off the post with very little effort.

I always clip to 1/8th" and then dome lightly and rarely do I get a good looking set that doesnt end up popping out.

Anyone have similar trouble with #14's? They sure seem finnicky and Im hoping someone might have some insight into why this happens.

Thanks all and happy holidays.

[Art]

I just set a couple of #14 Tandy Rivets form the '90s. The burrs held fine. For #14, I used a 1/16 inch cutoff height. Set the burr till it is just tight to the leather and cutoff to 1/16. use a small hammer backed by an anvil. Tap on the peener or directly on the post to peen it over. Strive for flat and centered if you want to use the head rounder on the other side. Practice and a little finesse with the delicate (comparatively speaking) rivets.

Art

[TinkerTailor]

have had the same issue recently, so I just tested some newer tandy rivets and i could pull the burr off by hand easily after setting and then slide it right back on. It appears the hole stretched too much, perhaps because the copper is too soft. A new burr is still tight. I tried again, only this time i used my nippers to make a few shallow grooves in the shaft of the rivet around where the burr sets and it worked much better. I tried to make tiny notches like you find on a shingle nail. It really helped lock the burr in place until the peening was far enough along to hold it.

As a rule, i tend to leave a stub as long as the rivet shaft is thick. Works for me.

[Ole South]

Rather than waste them... have you tried anealing a few? Set them tail up in a pan and play a torch across the tails until they light up, then let them cool slowly. You may have to do this a couple times. Worst case would be to have to bury the heads in sand with the tails exposed to hold the heat and slow the cooling.

[TinkerTailor]

I am also going to try to hammer the burrs with a flat hammer on my anvil to try to work harden them some before install. If the post is annealed softer as you suggest and the burr made harder, i think the whole setup would be better, however this is all a pain in the donkey. Be nice to find rivets made this way, or with a slightly smaller hole in the burr. The dies at the factory are probably getting worn.

[Ole South]

My thought was that they were already too brittle to hold a peened head, thus the softening. The more you work copper the more brittle it becomes and it doesn't take much. Copper riviets should harden as you peen them!

I just experience something like this in steel with a set of inexpensive import oblong punches. Hardened only on the inside it's almost impossible to sharpen them to usable without the edge chipping away. Now I understand why slot punches are so much more expensive than round punches.

[Ole South]

Sorry Tinker, I just realized the copper washer is referred to as the "burr" not the mushroomed head. *blush* I always called them "backup washers". Yeah... hammering the burr should not only harden it but close the i.d. a bit.

As you say, a real pita.